Fist Bump / Cry Havoc WLP1983

[Slim M]

I mentioned in another post I have almost been exclusively using a w-strain for my yeast, but I guess I’m getting adventurous as I will be trying L28 Urkel for the first time soon.

Another yeast I have been curious about for a long time is Charlie’s yeast Wlp1983 Cry Havoc / Fist Bump. Have you used it and what are your thoughts? I’m thinking about using this in a Czech lager after my Urkel experiment. Any advice?

 

[hotbeer]

W-strain? You mean the Fermentis wine yeasts?

Are we talking about beer or wine for this and the other yeasts you mention. Typically the yeast is choosen for beer based on what the beer type and style is going to be and for any flavor notes that yeast may or may not impart. Also the attenuation and alcohol tolerance is considered so as to know if the harder to ferment complex sugars will or won't be fermented to some extent.

Wines will be another subforum here. But I thought most wine yeast fermented pretty much any sugar. But that's from someone that has never made wine.

 

[Slim M]

Gotcha! Sorry for the confusion w = Weihenstephan strain. 34/70, cellar science, German and a few others in liquid from wyeast & white labs.

 

[rtstrider]

I'd actually recommend giving Omega German Lager 1 DKO a shot. That yeast is awesome! Outside of that Charlies fist bump is a strain I've been meaning to come back to. I used it in cream of three crops once before and got a certain spiciness that was less than desireable. I'd like to try the strain under pressure on another cream ale to see how it does. The quick history is it was cultured up from a 1970's era keg of Budweiser.

Outside of that wlp802 is really good too! I have yet to use WLP800 but have some banked up. It's on the to do list though I'm currently going through the Pilsner section of the BYO clone recipes book so I've been serially repitching the Weinstephan strain. Eventually the Pilsner Urquell recipe will come up though.

 

[Slim M]

I'd actually recommend giving Omega German Lager 1 DKO a shot. That yeast is awesome! Outside of that Charlies fist bump is a strain I've been meaning to come back to. I used it in cream of three crops once before and got a certain spiciness that was less than desireable. I'd like to try the strain under pressure on another cream ale to see how it does. The quick history is it was cultured up from a 1970's era keg of Budweiser.

Outside of that wlp802 is really good too! I have yet to use WLP800 but have some banked up. It's on the to do list though I'm currently going through the Pilsner section of the BYO clone recipes book so I've been serially repitching the Weinstephan strain. Eventually the Pilsner Urquell recipe will come up though.

Thanks I will check that out one day. I started brewing in the mid to late 2000s and started with extracts and CP’s The Complete Joy Of Homebrewing then shortly after went to all grain. I alway saw Cry Havoc listed in the recipes which is now Charlie’s fist bump 1983 but never tried it for whatever reason. I think I got to the Cry Havoc / Fist Bump at least once. Who knows it might be my next new favorite.

 

[Slim M]

I'd actually recommend giving Omega German Lager 1 DKO a shot. That yeast is awesome! Outside of that Charlies fist bump is a strain I've been meaning to come back to. I used it in cream of three crops once before and got a certain spiciness that was less than desireable. I'd like to try the strain under pressure on another cream ale to see how it does. The quick history is it was cultured up from a 1970's era keg of Budweiser.

Outside of that wlp802 is really good too! I have yet to use WLP800 but have some banked up. It's on the to do list though I'm currently going through the Pilsner section of the BYO clone recipes book so I've been serially repitching the Weinstephan strain. Eventually the Pilsner Urquell recipe will come up though.

I recall hearing about the Budweiser kegs story and how this yeast supposedly cultured from it sound possible, I guess. I guess I thought all Anheuser Bush products came in the same Kegs with Anheuser Busch imprinted on them with only removable labeling indicating product so they could be repurposed after being returned to Anheuser not just specific fo Budweiser.

I read an article how Michelob was originally only available in on draft no bottles. It was an attempt at creating a state side premium Czech lager with no adjunct. If we are speculating and guessing then maybe this is the original Michelob strain. I will attach the article if I can find it about the early version of michelob.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Brewing_Original_Michelob_Recipe

 

[Slim M]

I guess I’m shocked this yeast strain that is practically in the Homebrew hall of fame isn’t more galvanizing . I figured I would have gotten a little more opinions on this one from current or past users.

 

[Slim M]

Well I got around to giving this a try made a starter for the 1983 / fist bump and pitched it in a 12 gallon batch. I followed a Recipe of Charlie’s from the Complete Joy Of Homebrewing basically a CAP Hanging Possum Pilsner.

Fist bump was bubbling away 12 hours post pitch. I even used my little 1oz of hops I got of my first year US Tet plant last year

 

[rtstrider]

I guess I’m shocked this yeast strain that is practically in the Homebrew hall of fame isn’t more galvanizing . I figured I would have gotten a little more opinions on this one from current or past users.

I wasn't too impressed with it tbh but your experience may differ

 

[Slim M]

I wasn't too impressed with it tbh but your experience may differ

Yeah I may not be either but had to try it once after seeing for years in Charlie’s book. I had to satisfy my curiosity I guess, but I will hope for the best and report back in several weeks. I was surprised it took off pretty quick though seems some felt it was a slow starter.

 

[rtstrider]

Yeah I may not be either but had to try it once after seeing for years in Charlie’s book. I had to satisfy my curiosity I guess, but I will hope for the best and report back in several weeks. I was surprised it took off pretty quick though seems some felt it was a slow starter.

Oh absolutely! Please report back. I've only used that in cream of three crops and it had a specific spiciness I didn't particularly care for.

 

[Slim M]

Oh absolutely! Please report back. I've only used that in cream of three crops and it had a specific spiciness I didn't particularly care for.

Do you recall your fermentation temperature schedule with this yeast that got you the spicy flavor?

 

[rtstrider]

Was most likely around the low end which looks to be 55F. I was going for the lager characteristics.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

I like to do ALTs with Havoc/Fistbump @80-85F. The most
Germaniac taste ever comes thru at those temps!

 

[Slim M]

Got another batch going this year with WLP1983. Fired off bubbling in 12 hours.

 

[ninja]

Has anyone used this and wyeast 2007 , is there much diffrence , i can smell bud with 2007 , and about to try a bud clone so will be one these yeasts

 

[AmarikinBrew]

There isn't any much sulfur at the low end of the range, or the warm ferments for that matter, like 2007 often does. To me this is the classic Budvar signature. It is just as malty as 2007 IMO.
To me, Cry Havoc/Fistbump this is not Budvar Czech. It seems more like Bavarian -like Coors or Lowenbrau.
I think Charlie may have gotten the Coor's yeast, and under threat of lawsuit, shifted the origin to Bud, -hence the initial name as Cry Havoc implies.
It's just MY conspiracy theory, and I'm sticking to it.
We may never actually know for sure.

 

[ninja]

Think you maybe right , iv hurd the story of the keg of bud , but how did or why did they have budweiser keg in the coors lab, and evan more if they were asking charlie to make a drink for them surly they would rate there larger yeast more then budweiser and give there own yeast to him to make the drink , just dont add up bud from a coors lab ...

So to answer my question then fist bump and wyeast 2007 nothing alike and not the same .

 

[Slim M]

There isn't any much sulfur at the low end of the range, or the warm ferments for that matter, like 2007 often does. To me this is the classic Budvar signature. It is just as malty as 2007 IMO.
To me, Cry Havoc/Fistbump this is not Budvar Czech. It seems more like Bavarian -like Coors or Lowenbrau.
I think Charlie may have gotten the Coor's yeast, and under threat of lawsuit, shifted the origin to Bud, -hence the initial name as Cry Havoc implies.
It's just MY conspiracy theory, and I'm sticking to it.
We may never actually know for sure.

Guess that’s an interesting twist on the original story. Sounds plausible, but could also see breweries r&d department researching the competition as well. Who knows!

 

[ninja]

Hi slim so what are you brewing with this yeast this time ,
And how did you find the outcome last year .
Have you brewed a pilsner with it yet and how it compair to other lagar yeast ..

I was using wyeast 2001 ukel last year and did not realy go mad on it .
To date my best pilsners has been on wlp 802 budejovic and Wyeast 2633 octobefest blend .

Was looking to try bud 2007 or this fistbump 1987 this year .
Would love the wyeast 2105 rocky mountain coors yeast or 2782 staro prague staropramen but wyeast. dont seam to relese them anymore

 

[Wayne1]

"Guess that’s an interesting twist on the original story. Sounds plausible, but could also see breweries r&d department researching the competition as well. Who knows!"
I know. I was brewmaster at The SandLot Brewery at Coors Field when Charlie stopped by for a visit. He asked me if I could find out about this yeast he was given by a former Director of R&D at Coors. He was told it is a VERY SPECIAL yeast. I called over to R&D and gave them the numbers Charlie gave me.
I was told they referenced back to a sample taken from a keg of Budweiser. Coors Brewing R&D keeps thousands of yeasts frozen for analysis and possible future yeast. They were constantly analyzing different beers to see what everyone was up to.

Now this was 25 years ago. After many mergers the R&D team may now have different priorities. Back then, they always looked at what other breweries were doing.

 

[Slim M]

Hi slim so what are you brewing with this yeast this time ,
And how did you find the outcome last year .
Have you brewed a pilsner with it yet and how it compair to other lagar yeast ..

I was using wyeast 2001 ukel last year and did not realy go mad on it .
To date my best pilsners has been on wlp 802 budejovic and Wyeast 2633 octobefest blend .

Was looking to try bud 2007 or this fistbump 1987 this year .
Would love the wyeast 2105 rocky mountain coors yeast or 2782 staro prague staropramen but wyeast. dont seam to relese them anymore

Only my second time using this yeast, that I remember anyway, both times I’ve brewed a recipe from Charlie’s Complete Joy of Homebrewing scaled to meet my process. Last year I tried the Hanging Possum Pilsner, only change was I substituted some of the hops with my US Tett I grow at home.

This time i got Gopher Greatness Marzen in the fermenter. I really like the Possum Pilsner last year it was a great easy drinker. I made a 1 quart starter for 10ish gallons both times, some may think that’s way undersized but both times I chilled to 58f pitch yeast and set fermentation chamber at 55f and under 24 hours had it chugging. After about 7 days at 55-56 I start creeping the temp Up each day to hit 64 and hold a couple days before kegging. I will update when I get the Gopher ready.

 

[Slim M]

"Guess that’s an interesting twist on the original story. Sounds plausible, but could also see breweries r&d department researching the competition as well. Who knows!"
I know. I was brewmaster at The SandLot Brewery at Coors Field when Charlie stopped by for a visit. He asked me if I could find out about this yeast he was given by a former Director of R&D at Coors. He was told it is a VERY SPECIAL yeast. I called over to R&D and gave them the numbers Charlie gave me.
I was told they referenced back to a sample taken from a keg of Budweiser. Coors Brewing R&D keeps thousands of yeasts frozen for analysis and possible future yeast. They were constantly analyzing different beers to see what everyone was up to.

Now this was 25 years ago. After many mergers the R&D team may now have different priorities. Back then, they always looked at what other breweries were doing.

Makes sense especially with the big guys who have the resources . I suspect they always have and always will keep an eye on the competition.

 

[Broothru]

Thanks I will check that out one day. I started brewing in the mid to late 2000s and started with extracts and CP’s The Complete Joy Of Homebrewing then shortly after went to all grain. I alway saw Cry Havoc listed in the recipes which is now Charlie’s fist bump 1983 but never tried it for whatever reason. I think I got to the Cry Havoc / Fist Bump at least once. Who knows it might be my next new favorite.

As a point of reference, I’ve used WLP-800 and WLP-802 with success, but I won a Best of Show Czech Lager the year before COVID using Urkel, which is alleged to be the Pilsner Urquell H-strain of Czech lager yeast, though AI bots disagree on this point. WLP-800 and Wyeast 2001 are thought to be H-strain also.

I’m a real fan boi for all things White Labs, but don’t hesitate to use Imperial L28 “Urkel”. It’s a very good yeast.

 

[Slim M]

"Guess that’s an interesting twist on the original story. Sounds plausible, but could also see breweries r&d department researching the competition as well. Who knows!"
I know. I was brewmaster at The SandLot Brewery at Coors Field when Charlie stopped by for a visit. He asked me if I could find out about this yeast he was given by a former Director of R&D at Coors. He was told it is a VERY SPECIAL yeast. I called over to R&D and gave them the numbers Charlie gave me.
I was told they referenced back to a sample taken from a keg of Budweiser. Coors Brewing R&D keeps thousands of yeasts frozen for analysis and possible future yeast. They were constantly analyzing different beers to see what everyone was up to.

Now this was 25 years ago. After many mergers the R&D team may now have different priorities. Back then, they always looked at what other breweries were doing.

Something that would be just as cool as the story of how Charlie ended up with Budweiser yeast is if we knew how Adolphus Busch got his yeast. I don’t think I’ve ever heard and if I did I forgot.

 

[Broothru]

Hi slim so what are you brewing with this yeast this time ,
And how did you find the outcome last year .
Have you brewed a pilsner with it yet and how it compair to other lagar yeast ..

I was using wyeast 2001 ukel last year and did not realy go mad on it .
To date my best pilsners has been on wlp 802 budejovic and Wyeast 2633 octobefest blend .

Was looking to try bud 2007 or this fistbump 1987 this year .
Would love the wyeast 2105 rocky mountain coors yeast or 2782 staro prague staropramen but wyeast. dont seam to relese them anymore

True about Wyeast 2106-PC. It hasn’t been released in at least 3 (maybe 5) years. I was a real fan of that yeast, and still have a couple of frozen samples. The yeast is a strain of pure Andechs, which is also what WLP-835x is.

But 835x is a White Labs ‘Vault’ strain rather than a year-round core release. They had it last year so I ordered four Pure Pitches, along with four WLP-920 “Old Bavarian” pitches, which technically is not a Vault strain but is rarely seen ‘out in the wild’, so to speak. The last time I was on the Yeastman site, I seem to recall that 835x may be on this year’s scheduled Vault releases, so it might be becoming a Seasonal release.

Another Andechs strain is Imperial L26 “Pilgrimage”, though I haven’t seen it in a few years either. When it debuted, I contacted the lab directly and was told it was a “straight up Andechs strain”. I used it in both Coor’s Banquet and Coor’s Lite clones and it performed very well.

One last purported Andechs strain is from Propagation Labs outside of Golden, CO, called MIP-620 “Monk Lager”, but the last time I checked it was only available in brewery sized pitches. Hhmm. Colorado Rockies, Coors, Andechs propagation… Coincidence?

Anyway, Andechs is a great yeast, even if it is difficult to source for homebrewers. Maybe it’s gaining enough popularity to become more widely available. Until then I’ll just keep hoarding what I have and buying when I can.

 

[ninja]

Ok so got no chance with wyeast 2106 any time soon , maybe coors has somthing to do with it not being relesed any more .

So leaves us with wlp 835x how close and similar is it to rocky 2106 and evan more coors yeast are you saying they are the same or are they like the conan yeasts you have in states , same strain parents but all slightly diffrent now from diffrent yeast banks .
Wlp 835x comes out in july so ges i got wait 2 + months for it unless somone got the og frozen rocky 2106 sample they dont mind sending me to the uk id pay shipping .

Till then mite have to play around with 2007

 

[Slim M]

True about Wyeast 2106-PC. It hasn’t been released in at least 3 (maybe 5) years. I was a real fan of that yeast, and still have a couple of frozen samples. The yeast is a strain of pure Andechs, which is also what WLP-835x is.

But 835x is a White Labs ‘Vault’ strain rather than a year-round core release. They had it last year so I ordered four Pure Pitches, along with four WLP-920 “Old Bavarian” pitches, which technically is not a Vault strain but is rarely seen ‘out in the wild’, so to speak. The last time I was on the Yeastman site, I seem to recall that 835x may be on this year’s scheduled Vault releases, so it might be becoming a Seasonal release.

Another Andechs strain is Imperial L26 “Pilgrimage”, though I haven’t seen it in a few years either. When it debuted, I contacted the lab directly and was told it was a “straight up Andechs strain”. I used it in both Coor’s Banquet and Coor’s Lite clones and it performed very well.

One last purported Andechs strain is from Propagation Labs outside of Golden, CO, called MIP-620 “Monk Lager”, but the last time I checked it was only available in brewery sized pitches. Hhmm. Colorado Rockies, Coors, Andechs propagation… Coincidence?

Anyway, Andechs is a great yeast, even if it is difficult to source for homebrewers. Maybe it’s gaining enough popularity to become more widely available. Until then I’ll just keep hoarding what I have and buying when I can.

If Andechs is your thing contact the folks at Bootleg Biology they release one. I also got the Budvar strain from them and it was great.