Rye Saison - first recipe

[TomBruin]

This is the first recipe I've designed since using BeerSmith. I've made some modifications to recipes before, but never come up with one from scratch. I'd love some critiques on the grain bill and hop schedule.

Does Saaz at 2 mins make sense? Should it be 0? Do I need the carapils? Thanks in advance

 

[rhys333]

I would put the saaz at 0, though 2 minutes is fine as well. And I would drop the carapils as well as the crystal malt. If you want some malt umph, perhaps 8% or so vienna or munich? I might even drop a portion of your 2 Row and replace it with table sugar. The reason I say this is that the rye will add lots of body, and a portion of sugar will help dry it out and add a crispness.

 

[TomBruin]

Thanks for the suggestions, Rhys. How does this look?

Any thoughts on achieving a slightly darker color? Orange could be achieved with more Munich, right? I'm not very familiar with Munich and vienna, don't want to overdo it..

 

[rhys333]

Thanks for the suggestions, Rhys. How does this look?

View attachment 619071

Any thoughts on achieving a slightly darker color? Orange could be achieved with more Munich, right? I'm not very familiar with Munich and vienna, don't want to overdo it..

Yeah, that looks like a decent beer in the making. Munich and vienna are mild at those amounts too (some people even do 100% vienna SMaSH). As for colour, if you really want to darken it, you can add small amounts of black malt. You can get debittered versions if you're worried about picking up roast character (though I never do when using just 1% or so). Or... since you're opting for candi sugar, you could choose a darker version, but you'll pick up some flavors from that. What you have already looks pretty darn good though.

 

[z-bob]

If you're using clear or white candi sugar, save yourself some money and use granulated sugar from the grocery store. If you want to get fancy, the unbleached cane sugar just costs a few cents more per pound than generic white sugar. (I bought a 4 lb bag at Aldi a couple of weeks ago for $1.95) The dark candi is totally different; don't try to sub white or brown sugar for that.

 

[papz]

There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing how to make your own candi sugar. Watch them and decide if you want to go that route or not.

 

[TomBruin]

Very good information. Depending on time available for experimentation before brew day I'll look into making some candi sugar to see if I can get some colour in it... otherwise table sugar it is!

I'll check the local shop for debittered black malt, too. Sounds like an interesting ingredient to add, but I may save it for a later brew.

Does anyone have experience with using different Saison yeasts? Looks like the Belgian Saison Blend from WL is the highest attenuating, which appeals to me. My local homebrew shop can order in any White Labs stuff, or the standard dry yeasts (Lallemand, Safale etc).

 

[z-bob]

I brewed a Kentucky Common beer a month ago, with just 12 oz of unmalted rye flour in a 4 gallon batch. The rye is *very* noticeable; apparently it doesn't take much. (Oops, I just noticed you updated your recipe to reduce the amount of rye. Nevermind)

When the weather warms up a bit I'm going to try a saison using just pilsner malt and rye flour, and Belle Saison yeast. I'm not sure what hops yet.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Does anyone have experience with using different Saison yeasts? Looks like the Belgian Saison Blend from WL is the highest attenuating, which appeals to me. My local homebrew shop can order in any White Labs stuff, or the standard dry yeasts (Lallemand, Safale etc).

Be sure to take a look at Omega's Saisonstein's Monster. Ferment it warm. I used it on a Tank 7-esque grainbill and the beer was very nice.

Also, for my 2¢, the EKG seems an odd choice in a saison (it's flavor profile does fit, but it's such a British hop that I don't see putting it in a Continental beer). I would look at Styrian Goldings or Saaz instead, or Strisselspalt.

 

[TomBruin]

Be sure to take a look at Omega's Saisonstein's Monster. Ferment it warm. I used it on a Tank 7-esque grainbill and the beer was very nice.

Also, for my 2¢, the EKG seems an odd choice in a saison (it's flavor profile does fit, but it's such a British hop that I don't see putting it in a Continental beer). I would look at Styrian Goldings or Saaz instead, or Strisselspalt.

Is it possible to get Omega yeasts online? I had concerns about shipping yeast, but I don't really have any experience to base it on, I guess. If getting liquid yeast online is simple that would vastly open up how I choose yeast to brew with.

I'll look into what the local store has for other hop options, as well. Thanks!

 

[brownni5]

Also, for my 2¢, the EKG seems an odd choice in a saison (it's flavor profile does fit, but it's such a British hop that I don't see putting it in a Continental beer). I would look at Styrian Goldings or Saaz instead, or Strisselspalt.

Tell that to Dupont!

 

[brownni5]

Is it possible to get Omega yeasts online? I had concerns about shipping yeast, but I don't really have any experience to base it on, I guess. If getting liquid yeast online is simple that would vastly open up how I choose yeast to brew with.

Lots of online shops sell Omega yeast. Pick one close to you if you want to order. Probably not much different than the WLP blend, though. I've heard mixed reviews on the Omega blend/hybrid, whatever it is, but haven't used it myself.

 

[TomBruin]

Tell that to Dupont!

Does this mean that the Brasserie Dupont uses EKG?

 

[brownni5]

According to Phil Markowski in Farmhouse Ales. I commonly see EKG listed as suggested hops for Saisons.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Yeah, I'd drop the carapils and maybe use Vienna in place of the C80. If you carb it to style you should have zero issues with foam.