RubberMaid says "NO"!

[northernlad]

northernlad, brewtus... thank you both for your contributions!!

So according to northernlad, Rubbermaid has confirmed the liner is PE. What we don't know is whether it's HDPE or LDPE.

According to Brewtus, HDPE should be suitable for mashing in. LDPE... maybe not.

According to Hex, Rubbermaid said their coolers should not be used for hot liquids above 120 degrees F. Doing some searching around, I found a different thread on this forum where the same question was asked of rubbermaid. Their more detailed response was:

"The water jugs were not designed for hot beverages and we do not recommend using them for hot beverages. However, the FDA approved material used on the interior of the water jugs can handle liquids up to 120°F. We have not tested or verified this - it's strictly based off of the material specs."

So rubbermaid has twice said the liner was good to 120 degrees, based on the material specs. Which is interesting, because:
A) I don't know of any food grade plastic suitable for use as a cooler liner that would have such a low max temp
B) All us cooler users know they can handle 120 all day long,
C) HDPE's max temp is 120 degrees CELSIUS.

I think customer service has celsius & fahrenheit mixed up. I think the max temp is 120 celsius, which points to HDPE. And personally speaking, I'm comfy w/ that.

I think the temperature max is a little subjective and I do not think the CS has it wrong. I can personally verify that HDPE will fail at some point below 350 degrees (think fryer oil in a pickle bucket). It is malleable at temperatures below that. As I have said before Rubbermaid recommends such a low temperature because, I am sure, at some point in their testing they have encountered failure. They cannot afford to replace their coolers for every cheap bastard who uses them for mashing and finds, like I have, that it can cause physical damage to the plastic.
As a caveat: I understand people have found evidence one way or the other that satisfies what they want to hear on the subject. So, use it if you want to, don't if yer skerrt.
In How to Brew, Palmer states that boiling in aluminum results in a level for the ENTIRE 5 gallon batch equal to one half of one antacid. I am confident that the level of contamination from HDPE from mashing temperatures is within the same tolerance and in MY brewery that is acceptable.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Thank you Brewtus. I feel suffishently edumacated now.

Seriously, thank you for that post.

 

[djt17]

My 2 cents...

That was much more than 2 cents. Thanks

 

[Revvy]

So I didn't understand all the big words, but Brewtus just said it's safe to use, and that the OP is just being a nervous nelly, right?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So I didn't understand all the big words, but Brewtus just said it's safe to use, and that the OP is just being a nervous nelly, right?

I think Brewtus is a bot and that was just a random post in a random thread.

OR, he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night and all his "mumbo-jumbo" don't really count.


Obvously I'm kidding... Thanks for the very informative post Brewtus

 

[Hex]

So I didn't understand all the big words, but Brewtus just said it's safe to use, and that the OP is just being a nervous nelly, right?

At least I asked. I'm going to do a little more research, probably FDA, to get definitions of food grades for our situation.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

At least I asked. I'm going to do a little more research, probably FDA, to get definitions of food grades for our situation.

Yup. I gotta hold my hand up and admit I thought it was silly at first, but it was a valid question.

 

[funkswing]

I want to invest in Brewtus' 2 cents, because that value is going waaaaaay up!

I wish I would have stuck through all of my college chemistry classes (not really!), but I worked at a brewpub and homebrewed instead.........

 

[buzzkill]

mashing in my Igloo will bring about the Ewok Holocaust. :rockin:

 

[Revvy]

mashing in my Igloo will bring about the Ewok Holocaust. :rockin:

Last time I tried to mash in an Igloo, this happened,

So I switched to a HOT TUB instead.

*rimshot*

 

[cheezydemon3]

Do I believe that mashing in a cooler leaches dangerous chemicals? YES

If you live and die by FDA maximum safe levels, so many ppm of phucking MERCURY is OK with them.

Do I think that the level of said sh!te drops significantly after the first batch? YES

IF I decided to mash in a cooler, I would first purge it several times by letting HOT water sit in it for an hour or so.

No biggie, right?

With 99% of things within the FDA's "SAFE" zone in this world, spermies are on the decline, and it is the male spermies that are kicking first......

I know that to most of us, a 90% female world with little chance of impregnating any of them has it's own bent appeal, but really, when you think about WHY that is happening, isn't it a little scary? What else is it effecting?

 

[buzzkill]

we had the ice age,stone age,bronz age.....welcome to the petrochemical age. I hear ya,but ... its all around us. . death by beer.

 

[funkswing]

Cheezy needs one of these.

And some xanax.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Got kids FUNK? I am guessing not.

Worrying about warning signs we get now means not having to explain to my kids why I did NOTHING.

Mashing in plastic is NO BIGGIE (see my above post) I guess I would just like people to be more aware of potential problems from, specifically HEAT and PLASTIC.

Unfortunately the very ingredients being discussed here.

 

[Airborneguy]

cheezy, you need to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you on this matter. It's one thing to tell people what you believe, it's another to be a preacher.

 

[tunoffun]

I just contacted US plastics via their online chat application. I've ordered other products from them before, and they carry rubbermaid coolers. My query: I need to know what the inner liner of your rubbermaid 10 gallon cooler is made of - LDPE, HDPE, PP, or other.

After being told to wait while the agent checked, and being 'on hold' for approx 10 minutes, I received the response "It's HDPE". Take it for what it's worth. For all I know they just looked at the bottom of the lid, saw the '2' symbol, and assumed the entire liner was HDPE just like I did the first time I purchased one. Then again, they might actually know for sure.

 

[funkswing]

cheezy - anyone can be afraid of whatever they want. You can worry all day long about what you want. Does that make you better father? Don't care.

You sound like a paranoid android. Simply stating fears, yet having nothing to support your claims. (Please waste your time trying to support your claims, I'm sure your kids will greatly appreciate the wasted time).

But I guess I'm just a screwed up person b/c I watched the little mermaid growing up and Sebastian the crab was my favorite character.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

cheezy - anyone can be afraid of whatever they want. You can worry all day long about what you want. Does that make you better father? Don't care.

You sound like a paranoid android. Simply stating fears, yet having nothing to support your claims.

Not Stephen Colbert fan then? Keep fear alive!!

 

[funkswing]

Fear can licken mir die Ballen.

I'm for sanity!!

 

[nutty_gnome]

IF I decided to mash in a cooler, I would first purge it several times by letting HOT water sit in it for an hour or so.

I would use slightly acidic hot water to mimic the PH of the mash. Maybe even add some kind of mild alcohol as a solvent in there (vodka? rubbing acohol?) for good measure.

But I didn't do this and I bought mine used for 3 bucks and I have NO idea what the previous owner used it for.

 

[JonK331]

I just contacted US plastics via their online chat application. I've ordered other products from them before, and they carry rubbermaid coolers. My query: I need to know what the inner liner of your rubbermaid 10 gallon cooler is made of - LDPE, HDPE, PP, or other.

After being told to wait while the agent checked, and being 'on hold' for approx 10 minutes, I received the response "It's HDPE". Take it for what it's worth. For all I know they just looked at the bottom of the lid, saw the '2' symbol, and assumed the entire liner was HDPE just like I did the first time I purchased one. Then again, they might actually know for sure.

I never heard back from Morebeer either, they usually call me right back so I'm assuming they couldn't find anything either.

 

[cheezydemon3]

cheezy - anyone can be afraid of whatever they want. You can worry all day long about what you want. Does that make you better father? Don't care.

You sound like a paranoid android. Simply stating fears, yet having nothing to support your claims. (Please waste your time trying to support your claims, I'm sure your kids will greatly appreciate the wasted time).

But I guess I'm just a screwed up person b/c I watched the little mermaid growing up and Sebastian the crab was my favorite character.

No, You're probably screwed up because you kept on breathing easy when they started to think asbestos might be bad for you.

I said mashing in a cooler was probably OK. HEAR ME THIS TIME.

And yeah, if something is messing with my sperm, I'm concerned!

Glad you aren't!

 

[cheezydemon3]

I would use slightly acidic hot water to mimic the PH of the mash. Maybe even add some kind of mild alcohol as a solvent in there (vodka? rubbing acohol?) for good measure.

But I didn't do this and I bought mine used for 3 bucks and I have NO idea what the previous owner used it for.

Not all that nutty, gnome. A good thought.

 

[JonK331]

I'm going to start mashing in my glass carboy. I'll just place my screen door over my kettle, set the carboy on top, and break it with a hammer to sparge.

 

[bob1852]

I'm going to start mashing in my glass carboy. I'll just place my screen door over my kettle, set the carboy on top, and break it with a hammer to sparge.

No vorlauf?

 

[the_bird]

I wouldn't bother with the screen door, the glass will settle out. I've heard of Isinglass, you'll have the glass-is-in.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I'm going to start mashing in my glass carboy. I'll just place my screen door over my kettle, set the carboy on top, and break it with a hammer to sparge.

Aren't you the least bit worried about silica leeching into your beer? IT'S SAND fer chrissakes. Ever spill your beer on the beach then try to drink it. Trust me, it's not a tasty experience.

Plus, my carboy was made in Mexico. You do know about the fertilizers and pesticides they use, right?

No thanks, I'll stick to mashing in my hot tub.:cross:

 

[northernlad]

I wouldn't bother with the screen door, the glass will settle out. I've heard of Isinglass, you'll have the glass-is-in.

Well played sir.


I really do want to know the basis and support for this evil Leach Monster.
In the 80's eggs were the devil.
More recently people are holding crosses over aluminum without any concrete evidence.
People say shyt ALL the time and all it takes is one hippy to spread the word to his hippy friends and all of the sudden thinking will give you cancer.
Info given here previously mentions plastics leaching organics. What does this mean? Is plastic really guilty until proven innocent or can ANYONE provide real data to back up what is currently just a claim?
We don't need to know the long term effects of leaching, ony what it is people are so damn scared of (besides BPA).
I am being serious here and not bagging on anyone.

 

[the_bird]

Yup, lame.

Don't think anyone ever said that there was NOTHING wrong, just that there was NO EVIDENCE that there was ANYTHING wrong. Not the same thing.

Intentionally stroking arguments is playing with fire.

 

[tunoffun]

We don't need to know the long term effects of leaching, ony what it is people are so damn scared of (besides BPA).
I am being serious here and not bagging on anyone.

It's really interesting you bring up BPA. Because in doing so you've pretty much answered your question.

BPA had been used in food & beverage packaging for DECADES before its potentially toxic nature came to light.

So why shouldn't people be concerned with other substances deemed safe at the present moment, particularly when they're being used in ways that directly contradict the recommendations and useage guidelines of the manufacturer?

Nothing's guaranteed 100% safe. We all determine where we're going to draw the line for ourselves in regards to product safety, what we consume, etc. But in my opinion... wanting to know a little bit more about such products is intelligent and healthy. Not paranoid. Given enough time, I could come up with an almost endless array of substances that were used for long periods of time, according to their intended use, before the detrimental health affects were known. Asbestos & tobacco come to mind immediately.

Thanks primarily to Brewtus, we're on the path now of actually knowing what plastic the rubbermaid liners are made of (posted in this thread), and I've posted related links to NSF & FDA certifications and useage guidelines, which, assuming we have the actual material targetted, begin to paint the use of Rubbermaid coolers as mash tuns in a positive light. It won't answer all the questions, but it's enough to satisfy many in regards to the line they draw. From what I've gathered, this is pretty much the first time anyone's even come close to actually knowing what they're mashing in regarding Rubbermaid products. And it's a direct result of those who bothered to question the matter. If we took the sage advice of all the 'old timers' who couldn't be bothered to provide anything of substance other than poking fun, we'd still know what we did before.. NADA.

I'm sure there will be more than one response following this along the lines of "We knew that all along". But that fact is... no... you didn't. You just assumed everything was GTG and happened to (maybe) be right. It's like claiming psychic powers for guessing the result of a coin toss.