RO system recommendations?

[Wables]

I went back a few pages and didn’t see a thread on this. Can anyone give a recommendation on a RO system?

 

[9Kegs]

https://www.buckeyehydro.com/ro-systems/

 

[marc1]

Buckeye Hydro was great to work with. System works great.

 

[AlexKay]

++ on Buckeye Hydro. Good product at a good price. I had a plumber install mine. Working great for six months now.

 

[burtom]

https://www.buckeyehydro.com/ro-systems/

Nice Avatar!

 

[Wables]

Those units look like they are all 24 gpd. How does that work? Do you fill a bucket the day before? Do you have some type of shut-off like a toilet float?

 

[marc1]

Those units look like they are all 24 gpd. How does that work? Do you fill a bucket the day before? Do you have some type of shut-off like a toilet float?

Mine's a 100GPD. I run it into carboys in advance. You can get fancy with shutoffs, but I just set a timer and fill them in my sink so that if there's an overflow (it's happened!) there isn't a huge mess.
If you call or email them they should help you figure out what you need for your application; they don't try to oversell you with stuff, which is really nice. They are a forum sponsor, and post on here, too.

 

[MaxStout]

Another vote for Buckeye Hydro. I have a 75GPD system. I fill 5 gallon water jugs set in my laundry sink (in case of overflow, there's a drain).

Once you get a system you'll find a ton of other uses. Better water for steam irons and coffee makers (no scale deposits), water for mixing Starsan, water to have on hand if your city water goes down, etc. I fill my camper's water tanks with it--anodes last much longer.

 

[day_trippr]

Those units look like they are all 24 gpd. How does that work? Do you fill a bucket the day before? Do you have some type of shut-off like a toilet float?

Russ @Buckeye_Hydro does offer float valves that can be attached to a vessel for "automatic filling" - along with a wide range of RO systems wrt throughput. He helped me upgrade my existing 50gpd system to 100gpd while producing single-digit TDS output from my 300+TDS/230+ RA well water...

Cheers!

 

[Wables]

100 gpd sounds more like it! My basement brewery that I’m building will be with a 65l Brewzilla. My other system makes 20 finished gallons, and uses more like 30-35 gallons on a brew day, so the 24 gpd freaked me out a bit.

 

[maxr]

I have a cheap aquatic life system (100 gpd) that has been working well. Adequate for my monthly 6gal batches.

 

[Bobby_M]

A 100GPD system is only going to make that if the input pressure is high enough. Generally that's about 60-70psi. The lower your water pressure, the better off you are with a lower GPD system. Float valves are your friend. This system will do what you need.. 5 Stage RO System Tank Drinking Water Free 1 year Extra 7 Filter

Float: Plastic Float Valve For Reverse Osmosis RO System#SP-FV
You can put that in a bucket or you can install it temporarily on one of your kettles/HLT. with this bracket.
http://www.purewaterclub.com/index.php/pt-fvbs.html
If you need to collect in buckets but need more capacity than one of them, you can install the float into ONE bucket and then bank additional buckets together with bottling spigots, tubing and tees.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Assuming you are looking at the Premium RO System here: Premium RO Systems - Buckeye Hydro

You have a bunch of selectable options down the right side of the page. RO Capacity is the first option - it is a pull-down window where you can select 24, 36, 50, 75, 100, 150 gallons per day. Nearly every homebrewer selects 100 gpd.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

A 100GPD system is only going to make that if the input pressure is high enough. Generally that's about 60-70psi.

ALL RO membranes have a stated daily capacity, and yes, that production is based upon standard testing conditions including water pressure and water temperature. In regard to the top-end Filmtec RO membranes we use, that is 77F water at 50 PSI. Nearly every other brand of membrane uses 77F and 60 PSI or 77F and 65 PSI. Most people have 50 PSI in their house. Much fewer have 60 or 65 PSI.

The lower your water pressure, the better off you are with a lower GPD system.

Actually, it is the exact opposite. Higher pressures yield faster production and greater water purity. In a residential setting you'll not want pressure higher than 80 psi in most instances. Pressures higher than the factory spec test pressure can also help make up for feedwater temperatures below 77F (which nearly all people have). You can play with our calculator here Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water System | RODI Systems | Home Water Filtration System - Buckeye Hydro to see how your water temperature and water pressure will affect production.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Those units look like they are all 24 gpd. How does that work? Do you fill a bucket the day before? Do you have some type of shut-off like a toilet float?

Couple things to think about here.

First, realize that there are TWO outlets from the RO system. One is purified water (called "permeate") and one the flush water (called "concentrate"). You can put a float valve on the permeate to stop flow when your container is full. This works well.

But what about your concentrate? It is still flowing, and will flow to drain 24/7/365. That's no good. So... we use something called an Automatic Shut Off Valve - this ingenious device detects when the float valve closes, and it stops all flow through the RO system. The ASOV Kit is one of the selectable options on the right side of the page.

Russ

 

[Deadalus]

I also have an interest in an RO system. I was thinking that it might be a bit selfish to have the RO water just for brewing and would like to split the output to also include the fridge water dispenser. I have a "home run" manifold, much like a CO2 manifold where lines are separately run pex lines to each fixture. My basement garage is where I brew, fridge is on the first floor. Seems like this would require a pressure tank, which on the Buckeye Hydro website is the residential system. Is the pressure tank needed to make long runs? I'm thinking there is significantly reduced pressure on the output side and that the small diameter tubing also reduces flow due to friction? I need about 15 gallons in my keggle for mashing, sparging, and covering the HERMS coil. The Buckeye residential system only suggests a 24 gpd rate with a small pressure tank (3.2 gallons). I'm thinking a larger pressure tank, at least 1/2 of 15 gallons, would work best because I could empty the pressure tank the night before and then in the morning have enough. However, the cost difference between 24-75 gpd membranes and systems is fairly negligible like $15 or less in many cases for the system and then the membranes are almost the same price if replacing. I'm thinking about something like the Premium Buckeye system with an 11 gallon pressure tank as I am not seeing pressure tanks in the 7-8 gallon size, and just going with the 75 gpd membrane.

I wonder also about the concentrate and whether it would need pressure to travel to a waste line? In these smaller systems, it appears the concentrate line is clamped right above the p-trap on the sink. If I had my RO system located near my manifold, there's no waste line anywhere near it. I could put the system near the garage sink but the fridge is upstairs and half a house away. Perhaps not so much an issue, maybe no more than 25 ft.

Then all these stages! I'm on city water so no major issues I would think but I'm not getting a clear understanding of what is needed. Mainly for brewing but having it for drinking water is a big bonus.

 

[Beerstein]

I have two of the APEC systems that you can buy on Amazon. They are okay.

The #1 lesson is don't buy anything that hints remotely of being made in China or by a non-reputable company. There's nothing worse than using cartridges that stink right out the box.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I also have an interest in an RO system. I was thinking that it might be a bit selfish to have the RO water just for brewing and would like to split the output to also include the fridge water dispenser. I have a "home run" manifold, much like a CO2 manifold where lines are separately run pex lines to each fixture. My basement garage is where I brew, fridge is on the first floor. Seems like this would require a pressure tank, which on the Buckeye Hydro website is the residential system. Is the pressure tank needed to make long runs? I'm thinking there is significantly reduced pressure on the output side and that the small diameter tubing also reduces flow due to friction? I need about 15 gallons in my keggle for mashing, sparging, and covering the HERMS coil. The Buckeye residential system only suggests a 24 gpd rate with a small pressure tank (3.2 gallons). I'm thinking a larger pressure tank, at least 1/2 of 15 gallons, would work best because I could empty the pressure tank the night before and then in the morning have enough. However, the cost difference between 24-75 gpd membranes and systems is fairly negligible like $15 or less in many cases for the system and then the membranes are almost the same price if replacing. I'm thinking about something like the Premium Buckeye system with an 11 gallon pressure tank as I am not seeing pressure tanks in the 7-8 gallon size, and just going with the 75 gpd membrane.

I wonder also about the concentrate and whether it would need pressure to travel to a waste line? In these smaller systems, it appears the concentrate line is clamped right above the p-trap on the sink. If I had my RO system located near my manifold, there's no waste line anywhere near it. I could put the system near the garage sink but the fridge is upstairs and half a house away. Perhaps not so much an issue, maybe no more than 25 ft.

Then all these stages! I'm on city water so no major issues I would think but I'm not getting a clear understanding of what is needed. Mainly for brewing but having it for drinking water is a big bonus.

Ha! Good questions all, but too much to address here. Please give us a call at 513-312-2343
Russ

 

[Bobby_M]

Actually, it is the exact opposite. Higher pressures yield faster production and greater water purity. In a residential setting you'll not want pressure higher than 80 psi in most instances. Pressures higher than the factory spec test pressure can also help make up for feedwater temperatures below 77F (which nearly all people have). You can play with our calculator here Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water System | RODI Systems | Home Water Filtration System - Buckeye Hydro to see how your water temperature and water pressure will affect production.

Russ

I don't think you read me right because you agreed with me. I said that IF you have lower water pressure, such as a well pump set to 40psi, you should buy a system with a lower capacity membrane. You get much better rejection and waste ratio putting 40psi into a 50GPD membrane than a 150GPD membrane. You can either use a system that's tuned to your water pressure and just collect the correct amount of water needed or if you absolutely must have faster production, you'll just want to supplement a high capacity system with a booster pump.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Our 24 (25), 36, 50, 75, and 100 gpd membranes are spec'ed at 50 psi. The 150 is spec'ed at 65 psi. Anything 100 gpd and under will run fairly reasonably down to about 40, but under 40 you'll want a booster pump.

 

[Bobby_M]

I also have an interest in an RO system. I was thinking that it might be a bit selfish to have the RO water just for brewing and would like to split the output to also include the fridge water dispenser. I have a "home run" manifold, much like a CO2 manifold where lines are separately run pex lines to each fixture. My basement garage is where I brew, fridge is on the first floor. Seems like this would require a pressure tank, which on the Buckeye Hydro website is the residential system. Is the pressure tank needed to make long runs? I'm thinking there is significantly reduced pressure on the output side and that the small diameter tubing also reduces flow due to friction? I need about 15 gallons in my keggle for mashing, sparging, and covering the HERMS coil. The Buckeye residential system only suggests a 24 gpd rate with a small pressure tank (3.2 gallons). I'm thinking a larger pressure tank, at least 1/2 of 15 gallons, would work best because I could empty the pressure tank the night before and then in the morning have enough. However, the cost difference between 24-75 gpd membranes and systems is fairly negligible like $15 or less in many cases for the system and then the membranes are almost the same price if replacing. I'm thinking about something like the Premium Buckeye system with an 11 gallon pressure tank as I am not seeing pressure tanks in the 7-8 gallon size, and just going with the 75 gpd membrane.

I wonder also about the concentrate and whether it would need pressure to travel to a waste line? In these smaller systems, it appears the concentrate line is clamped right above the p-trap on the sink. If I had my RO system located near my manifold, there's no waste line anywhere near it. I could put the system near the garage sink but the fridge is upstairs and half a house away. Perhaps not so much an issue, maybe no more than 25 ft.

Then all these stages! I'm on city water so no major issues I would think but I'm not getting a clear understanding of what is needed. Mainly for brewing but having it for drinking water is a big bonus.

You want to be careful with the larger pressure tanks. I've tried two of them so far and they have so much bladder surface area that the plastic flavor and aroma is leeched into the water. That was still the case after about 25 fill and dump cycles. The other thing to know is that you don't get the full capacity of the tank for water as the compressed bladder still takes up quite a bit of internal space.

Using a simple clamp-on float valve on one of your brewing vessels the night before brew day will collect all the water you need. If you need more water, just jump a hose between the drain of your HLT and connect it to the drain of your Boil kettle. Now it will fill both up to the level of the float valve and stop.

The waste line of RO is under plenty of pressure to go anywhere you need it to.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

If you have residential well water at your house, the well pump will be controlled by a pressure switch. Nearly all such homes (except those with a variable speed pump) use a 30/50 or a 40/60 switch, meaning:
*Your pump will come on with the system pressure drops to 30 psi, and will kick off when it reaches 50 psi, or
*Your pump will come on with the system pressure drops to 40 psi, and will kick off when it reaches 60 psi.

In either case your water pressure will vary, as will the performance of your RO membrane.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

You want to be careful with the larger pressure tanks. I've tried two of them so far and they have so much bladder surface area that the plastic flavor and aroma is leeched into the water. That was still the case after about 25 fill and dump cycles.

All pressurized RO storage tanks tend to result in the taste and odor of the plastic bladder in the tank showing up in the water. Even very small tanks. This is easy to address however with a simple taste and odor filter between the tank and the outlet.

 

[Deadalus]

Ha! Good questions all, but too much to address here. Please give us a call at 513-312-2343
Russ

I will. Sometime in the near term.

You want to be careful with the larger pressure tanks. I've tried two of them so far and they have so much bladder surface area that the plastic flavor and aroma is leeched into the water. That was still the case after about 25 fill and dump cycles. The other thing to know is that you don't get the full capacity of the tank for water as the compressed bladder still takes up quite a bit of internal space.

Using a simple clamp-on float valve on one of your brewing vessels the night before brew day will collect all the water you need. If you need more water, just jump a hose between the drain of your HLT and connect it to the drain of your Boil kettle. Now it will fill both up to the level of the float valve and stop.

The waste line of RO is under plenty of pressure to go anywhere you need it to.

All pressurized RO storage tanks tend to result in the taste and odor of the plastic bladder in the tank showing up in the water. Even very small tanks. This is easy to address however with a simple taste and odor filter between the tank and the outlet.

Good to know on both quotes. I did pick up on the difference between the size of the tank and the actual water volume and was going to keep an eye on that-tricky advertising on same tanks!

What isn't clear at the moment is when is the pressure tank necessary? The size of the systems considered here seem to be mainly for one fixture, not whole house. Why is there the residential version with the small pressure tank? Storage I guess then? Float valve is a good idea but if I needed the pressure tank going a little bigger isn't too bad in cost.

I used to have the big old tank on my radiator system. I never took the time to read up on their purpose, I just knew to drain it once in a while for efficiency. I rebuilt my system and it has a small pressure tank which I get is to keep a standard pressure. I do understand how they are helpful with a well pump but there was no qualification that with the RO system, if you are on a well system, you need the pressure tank. They are sort of standard on a well system anyway aren't they. I'm on city water but I don't know the pressure offhand.

Hopefully this is useful information for the OP too, not trying to hijack the thread.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Realize that these residential scale RO systems produce water slowly. Too slow to for instance, fill up a drinking water glass in real time. So the RO system fills a pressurized storage tank so that when you open the faucet, you can get x amount of "high" pressure, ready-made RO water. In most instances, the pressure in a full RO tank is about 66% of whatever your feedwater pressure is.
Russ

 

[marc1]

I will. Sometime in the near term.


Good to know on both quotes. I did pick up on the difference between the size of the tank and the actual water volume and was going to keep an eye on that-tricky advertising on same tanks!

What isn't clear at the moment is when is the pressure tank necessary? The size of the systems considered here seem to be mainly for one fixture, not whole house. Why is there the residential version with the small pressure tank? Storage I guess then? Float valve is a good idea but if I needed the pressure tank going a little bigger isn't too bad in cost.

I used to have the big old tank on my radiator system. I never took the time to read up on their purpose, I just knew to drain it once in a while for efficiency. I rebuilt my system and it has a small pressure tank which I get is to keep a standard pressure. I do understand how they are helpful with a well pump but there was no qualification that with the RO system, if you are on a well system, you need the pressure tank. They are sort of standard on a well system anyway aren't they. I'm on city water but I don't know the pressure offhand.

Hopefully this is useful information for the OP too, not trying to hijack the thread.

I think you're misunderstanding something. Well systems, with or without an additional RO system, have a pressure tank and a switch for all of the water. When water gets used and the pressure goes down, the switch turns the well pump on to fill it back up with water pumped out of the ground.

You do not need an pressure tank/switch specific for the RO system unless you want to have RO on demand at a rate/pressure higher than it is capable of producing (which for my system is a slow dribble of ~2.5 gallons an hour).

 

[Deadalus]

Realize that these residential scale RO systems produce water slowly. Too slow to for instance, fill up a drinking water glass in real time. So the RO system fills a pressurized storage tank so that when you open the faucet, you can get x amount of "high" pressure, ready-made RO water. In most instances, the pressure in a full RO tank is about 66% of whatever your feedwater pressure is.
Russ

Oh OK. I'm good at math normally but didn't convert down to the minute! I was just thinking hourly rates. A 100gpd rate is about 4 gallons and hour, a gallon every 15 minutes and about 8 oz a minute roughly under optimal conditions. I see you mean about filling a glass. We have some system in my office kitchen that does fill a glass. I thought it might be RO as there are several cartridges but I never looked closely at it.

 

[Deadalus]

I think you're misunderstanding something. Well systems, with or without an additional RO system, have a pressure tank and a switch for all of the water. When water gets used and the pressure goes down, the switch turns the well pump on to fill it back up with water pumped out of the ground.

You do not need an pressure tank/switch specific for the RO system unless you want to have RO on demand at a rate/pressure higher than it is capable of producing (which for my system is a slow dribble of ~2.5 gallons an hour).

I thought they all did. I get how they are used on a well normally. What I said in a roundabout way is that I thought it probably isn't well related because there was no specific text indicating it was necessary for an RO system on a well (I was ruling that out.) It was the actual dying of thirst can I get a glass of water rate I hadn't reduced the problem to! I was also thinking that these size systems were for just drinking water. Besides work, I've run into other kitchens with the drinking water faucet on the side. Those may or may not be RO then I guess. Maybe we have a pressure tank though, I will check next opportunity and see.

 

[marc1]

I thought they all did. I get how they are used on a well normally. What I said in a roundabout way is that I thought it probably isn't well related because there was no specific text indicating it was necessary for an RO system on a well (I was ruling that out.) It was the actual dying of thirst can I get a glass of water rate I hadn't reduced the problem to! I was also thinking that these size systems were for just drinking water. Besides work, I've run into other kitchens with the drinking water faucet on the side. Those may or may not be RO then I guess. Maybe we have a pressure tank though, I will check next opportunity and see.

Got it!

 

[Bobby_M]

All pressurized RO storage tanks tend to result in the taste and odor of the plastic bladder in the tank showing up in the water. Even very small tanks. This is easy to address however with a simple taste and odor filter between the tank and the outlet.

I've had three of the smaller tanks that are typically included in RO starter systems and none of them had that plastic issue. I find it counterintuitive to store water in a tank that leeches plastic and then filter it out upon use.