Comments on RO System "schematic"

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leoatslt

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I'm finalizing the setup for my home brewery - typical 3V Herms setup - I'm ready to purchase & integrate an RO System into the brewery. Also want to use the RO water for refridge ice maker and water dispenser as well as adding an RO faucet to the main sink in the kitchen. Below is a rough schematic of my plans. Looking for feedback on the design. Attached are some pics of the Brewery for frame of reference.

Basically planning on putting RO System in the basement 40 - 50 ft away from brewery - nearer to the more frequent use of RO water in the kitchen on 1st floor. Highlighted in red in the schematic are some questions on the design/feasibility - but feel free to comment any "dumb stuff" I'm planning.
Thanks in advance.....

RO_Sys-leoatslt (2).jpg
 

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I don't know what the pump is between the system and the ice maker but I doubt that's necessary with only one floor of head pressure. Regarding tankless, I strongly recommend a system with a tank unless you love waiting for every drop of water. Also, along with a tank, I would recommend a permeate pump to speed things up and also help the filter efficiency. Otherwise if you are constantly grabbing a glass of water you will be topping the tank up with very poor quality water due to back pressure.
 
Does your fridge already have a filter?

RO systems have low flows and the tank is generally included to allow for short periods of higher demand such as filling glasses. For brewing, without a tank, you would just start the fillup ahead of time as necessary. The tanks are small and you would need to do that anyway I think.

I'm not sure if you would need the pump going up. But if you can locate the RO system upstairs, the pump wouldn't be needed. I don't really know exactly how to set up with a drinking water option as I decided against it-so no tank and no remineralization. Maybe just a tee and valve before the remineralization tube. Mine is mounted on my brew stand attached to a piece of plywood on the side to the legs.

Nice polish job on the keggles!
 
Can’t tell if you’re using a pressure tank. It would probably be a good idea to use one. The trickle of water from an RO system without a pressure tank wouldn’t be enough for the ice maker and the pump wouldn’t help without the tank. I did the same thing as you are doing and love it. My system is only a 50 gallon per day setup. I have a standard 4 gallon tank. I feed the ice maker and whole house humidifier and one faucet. No pump. I collect water in gallon jugs for brew day and starsan. I have to plan ahead a bit in order to collect enough water but my batches are typically 3 gallons. Some ice makers are picky about pressure so you may still need a pump with the tank to get we’ll formed cubes but mine didn’t.
 
I get a TDS of 2 with my system, no pressure tank and a 1:1 permeate to effluent. With a pressure tank, as it reaches top pressure the rejection rate can top 5:1 effluent to permeate. That's 1 gallon good to 5 gal down the drain. To get my 1:1 I use a diaphragm pump on the input side at 90 psi and a heat tape on the pipe. If you can heat the water to ~80* it's a good thing.
 
Does your fridge already have a filter?

RO systems have low flows and the tank is generally included to allow for short periods of higher demand such as filling glasses. For brewing, without a tank, you would just start the fillup ahead of time as necessary. The tanks are small and you would need to do that anyway I think.

I'm not sure if you would need the pump going up. But if you can locate the RO system upstairs, the pump wouldn't be needed. I don't really know exactly how to set up with a drinking water option as I decided against it-so no tank and no remineralization. Maybe just a tee and valve before the remineralization tube. Mine is mounted on my brew stand attached to a piece of plywood on the side to the legs.

Nice polish job on the keggles!
Thanks for the comment. Refridge has a filter. everything i read indicates that a booster pump is needed to feed an ice maker as the RO system drops water pressure too low for ice makers. Bought this setup a few months back and am trying to get this stood up to do a first brew day!
 
I get a TDS of 2 with my system, no pressure tank and a 1:1 permeate to effluent. With a pressure tank, as it reaches top pressure the rejection rate can top 5:1 effluent to permeate. That's 1 gallon good to 5 gal down the drain. To get my 1:1 I use a diaphragm pump on the input side at 90 psi and a heat tape on the pipe. If you can heat the water to ~80* it's a good thing.
Thanks for the feedback. Would you care to share the equipment you have in your RO system? Not sure what the diaphragm pump is - permeate pump? interesting on the heat tape solution. Will have to look into that!
 
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Well... a couple of thoughts here.

So called "tankless" systems are simply RO systems with higher gpd rated membranes - so that when you open the faucet you get a reasonable flow. Realize however that that reasonable flow is still at very low pressure.

In your system, you have outlets that will require a minimum pressure (the ice maker and faucet).

I think I'd put the RO and a pressurized storage tank on the first floor - that ought to give you decent pressure at those two outlets. You could also then have another outlet (teed off before the pressure tank) that goes to the basement. The high pressure ASOV would yield about 51 psi (60 psi feedwater * 85%) in the full pressure tank.

And yes - a permeate pump (not a booster pump [which is a diaphragm pump]) teamed with a high pressure auto shut off valve would be a big help. It would prevent the situation hotpeper13 describes above. If you increased the feedwater pressure with a booster pump, you'd also increase the pressure in the tank. If it were me I'd install the system without a booster pump (just to avoid the expense and complexity) and see how it works for you. You can always add a booster pump after the fact - it would be no more or less expensive or complicated.

Russ
 
Thanks for the comment. Refridge has a filter. everything i read indicates that a booster pump is needed to feed an ice maker as the RO system drops water pressure too low for ice makers. Bought this setup a few months back and am trying to get this stood up to do a first brew day!
But remember, a pressurized storage tank brings that low pressure back up.
 
Here's a schematic for a system that has both an outlet to a pressure tank on an outlet to an atmospheric (unpressurized) tank. Disregard the DI stage - that's not something you'll need.
Schematic.png
 
I have most of what you're describing installed at home. Here's the path, I'm too lazy to draw it.

Tap water goes to
Sediment canister then two carbon canisters
Then to a booster pump then into the membrane.
RO out of the membrane goes to a tee:

Tee A, out #1 goes to the brewing area and has a shutoff valve on the end. That also connects to a clip on adjustable float that drops in the kettle to whatever height you need the water to collect.

Tee A, out # 2 goes first through a check valve, then hits two more tees giving me three outputs. One to the water faucet, one to the fridge for cold water/ice and the third goes to a 2 gallon pressure tank.

The check valve just makes sure that the pressure tank of stored water can't go to my brew kettle. That stuff is reserved for drinking water and ice making.
 
Lots of good advice here. Some of my points are already covered but I'll throw them in as reinforcement.

I brew 15 gal batches. I use more like about 21 gals of water between losses and evaporation. I have a 20 gal and a 14 gal holding tank. Wish I would have went 20 and 20. The advertised numbers are total capacity of the tank. ~1/2 of that number is actual water capacity. When you pull 20 gals at one time, it will drop your water reserves/pressure very low and you'll need several hours to recover. I use for drinking as well so that matters to me. Your ice machine is probably in that same boat. Bobby's idea of a reserve tank and check valve is awesome. I could use the original tank for that at minimal cost. Thanks Bobby.

Make sure you upsize your delivery tubing. I started with the standard 1/4" lines. Too slow. upgraded to 3/8" (?) and much happier.

I'm guessing that Buckeye has forgotten more than I know on the subject because he does this for a living. That said, You're on city water. I would think your pressure should be good enough to handle delivery without either pump. I'm on a well, all equipment in the basement and I have plenty of pressure at the first floor sink. I do run a permeate (?) pump to increase the raw water pressure but it's still not to your 60psi. I think I'm about 35-45psi from the well. I'm about 37psi on my tanks when fully recovered.

Love the tanks on the first floor idea. That would probably be another good idea for me to steal from this thread. lol It does keep it a few degrees colder in the basement though.

Rich
 
I have the Hydro Logic Stealth 150 and am on a well, so the unit has is 100 psi operating and I use a 90 psi pump on the inlet before the sediment filter. I only use it in the brewery and can fill a 5 gal water bottle in 1 hour.
 
I have the Hydro Logic Stealth 150 and am on a well, so the unit has is 100 psi operating and I use a 90 psi pump on the inlet before the sediment filter. I only use it in the brewery and can fill a 5 gal water bottle in 1 hour.
Careful! Those clear housing probably have a max pressure limit of about 80 psi. Those are the weakest link in the system in terms of ability to withstand high pressure.
 
Here's a schematic for a system that has both an outlet to a pressure tank on an outlet to an atmospheric (unpressurized) tank. Disregard the DI stage - that's not something you'll need.
View attachment 864951
Russ,
Here is what i think i need based on the conversations in this thread...my updates to your DWG in red. I will call you....
1734981276092.png
 
I'd make all that line between the tee/bladder tank/faucet (not necessarily to the ice maker, but...) 3/8" as well. You'll thank me later... lol
 
Not exactly sure just yet. Have 3 or 4 finest made Chinese flow meters in my amazon cart. need to sift thru them and see af any look like they will work. will also check w/my plumber to see if he has any meters in his shop that he would barter for....
 
The key is finding a meter that will track such a low flow.
Even my 100 gpd system is only producing RO at roughly one quarter liter per minute.
I use a pricey Swissflow SF800 meter operating below its min 0.5 lpm flow rating but it does work. It's a spare from my keezer's tap list system ("RaspberryPints"). But there are more sensitive food-grade meters available on Amazon if one believes the specs.
For instance, this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DLZYSHT which is rated as low as 0.15 LPM...

Cheers!
 
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