RIMS or HERMS?

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An insulated MLT and/or heating strike water in the BK is a good HERMS solution.

I have to say, there is something elegant about a HERMs only having 2 elements. And only 1 that every touches wort.
 
Im planning on doing a HERMS/RIMS Hybrid. I will use a heat exchanger instead of a coil in the HLT, so 2 loops. Thats the HERMS, then I have a 2000w band heater on my mash tun so sort of RIMS. I hope it works out....
 
atoughram said:
Where were you measuring the temperature of the mash at?

I'd be really interested in you HEX too - could you take a picture of it?

I'm not sure of the calculations (I should've taken ME classes...). You've got 7 gallons of water (58.38 pounds) and 20 pounds of grain and raising it 20 degrees in a little over a half and hour so your HEX is really efficient! You must have designed it well. It sounds as if your transferring heat more efficiently with the HERMS than the RIMS - you definitely have more surface area.
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Temp is measured in the grain bed. If I manually probe it with a calibrated CDN thermometer is agrees with my bcs reading with less than 1 degree F of variance. I'll get a picture of the hex tonight. Need to keg a "mild" and kick off 10 gallons of hard cider.

Everything in my system is stainless steel and tri-clamp. The only threads in the entire brewery are on the ss center inlet chugger pump head. Those will be gone soon.
 
kcmobrewer said:
The more I think about it the more I wanna do HERMS. Especially a setup when I can run the bk element and the HLT element separately. For either back to back bathes or hearing the wort fast and early


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What sort of power feed do you have? Are you going to use PIDs or a PLC?

I bought a bcs 462 because I plan to have it controlling my glycol and fermenters soon. It can do 8 temp sensors.
 
Ambients have been 80+ during brewing here at 7100' MSL. I should add that measured voltage at the output studs of my control panel is typically 235, but fluctuates between 230 and 242. That is as measured by my fluke 179 meter. I know that voltage impacts ACTUAL heat input into the water/wort. Also, here are some pictures of the HEX.

Standalone shot:


Looks to be 1/2" OD. Unknown length, but I would guess around 50'


Here it is next to a 5 gallon ball lock for scale:
 
You will notice that every time there is a bend there is a corresponding weld. I don't like that at all! There is also a weld in the middle of the coil somewhere. Freaking Stout kettles built this. Their stuff is cost effective, but it is still cheap chinese $#!T. I am not impressed with the welds on my kettles. Especially when you look at the made in USA brewhemoth right next to it.
 
Idk what kettles I'm going with. I like blichmann mostly because of the clean in place of the sight glass. Seems really convenient

Gonna go with their boil could too I think because of the ability to unplug them during cleaning.


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BillNye said:
I specifically said RIMS.
Click to expand...

Mine can go from 148f to 168f in about the same time - 30 minutes.

EDIT - I might add that my batch sizes are 11 gallons and typically 25 pounds of grain and 8 gallons of strike water.
 
Could always put all the water in your HLT and add whatever you're gonna need to the MLT. Recirc the whole time your HLT is getting to temp. Using hot tap water I wouldn't think it'd take too long.


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BillNye said:
Just heat up some water in your boil kettle and use that as your strike water. Problem solved, no lag time.

I am trying to compare both options myself, I keep bouncing back and forth.

How quick can you bring the mash up to 168 with a RIMS?
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Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!

Strike close to mash temp, then raise it up a few degrees with RIMs tube.


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When I started building my system I was in the same boat (HERMS or RIMS). And like I stated in a earlier post I decided on a rims system but using gas burners. I was originally going to go all electric rims but when I was in the design phase of my control panel I decided against it. Why? It was due to the cost of the components to handle a 40 amp system. The problem with having an electric system and a rims is that the current draw is too high for a dryer outlet when both the rims and hlt are powered. Even if you used a 240V 4500W element on 120V in the rims tube it draws 9 amps plus then a 240V 5500W hlt would then draw 23 amps for a total of 32 amps. So to run this type of system you need a 40amp service which is not cheap to put together. The only way possible to run this on a dryer outlet is that only one element could be on a time and that would be annoying to orchestrate or to have a separate power input for the rims. I'm not sure if you have taken this into account so I just wanted to throw this out there as this was what I went through. If you are set on having an electric system I would recommend a herms setup.
 
byrone said:
Even if you used a 240V 4500W element on 120V
Click to expand...

The equation changes when you use a 2000W element at 240V in the RIMS tube

2000 + 4500 = 6500 = ~27A - A 30amp breaker will easily handle it.

I've got a 5500W and 2000W running simultaneously at about 33a measured and a 40a breaker. Haven’t tripped it yet
 
you have to consider the amps used by the pumps too though right?


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atoughram said:
The equation changes when you use a 2000W element at 240V in the RIMS tube

2000 + 4500 = 6500 = ~27A - A 30amp breaker will easily handle it.

I've got a 5500W and 2000W running simultaneously at about 33a measured and a 40a breaker. Haven’t tripped it yet
Click to expand...

You're correct by increasing the voltage from 120V to 240V you will draw less current. The voltage is user preference because of the scare of possible scorching but must be taken into account when deciding on the electrical components. Personally I wouldn't push the outlet that close to max current rating. I always put in a 80% safety factor so for a 27A load I would install no less than a 40 amp breaker and 8 awg wire(power into the controller). As with the current draw of your system a 40 amp breaker is fine to handle the pumps and both the hlt and rims running at the same time without tripping the breaker.
 
byrone said:
I always put in a 80% safety factor
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Each to their own opinion - if it's rated at 40a continuous duty - then it's rated for 40a continuous duty and can be used in circuits using 40a continuous. The safety factors are already built in.
 
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. There is a good reason for not exceeding the 80% load(as per electrical code in most places). The installer puts the safety factor in which is why electrical should be done by(or at least checked by) a licensed electrician. If you want to run a circuit at full power and put your faith in a switch to protect you and your house, all the power to you. I'm not going to say anymore about this as it's going off subject. To the OP, I would check with an electrician to find out your local regulations. I'm not trying to start an argument but when dealing with electricity safety should be number 1 and it only takes a split second for something bad to happen.
 
Yeah. Not trying to get too crazy with it. I'd like to do back to back batches though if I wanted.

I want to go with 5500w 240v elements. One in the bk and one in the HLT for a HERMS setup. Hoping a 50 amp panel from Kal can run that plus at least one pump simultaneously.


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kcmobrewer said:
5-10 gallon batches in 20 gallon vessels btw.


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Easily done, as I do it all the time. In fact wanting to still do 5 gallon batches is why I went with stouts 20 gallon kettles. They are the same diameter as their smaller sized ones so I can keep enough grain bed depth. Their next size kettle above the 20 is a larger diameter and I would have to give up 5 gallon brews for the most part.
 
I am actually going with stout for all 3 vessels I think. I was truly impressed after looking them up.


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Bensiff said:
Easily done, as I do it all the time. In fact wanting to still do 5 gallon batches is why I went with stouts 20 gallon kettles. They are the same diameter as their smaller sized ones so I can keep enough grain bed depth. Their next size kettle above the 20 is a larger diameter and I would have to give up 5 gallon brews for the most part.
Click to expand...

Yep. I have 30 gallon vessels and the smallest I can do is 10 gallons of a 1.040 beer. I can also do 20 gallons up to around 18 Plato.
 
Yeah I thought about going bigger. But for the moment I want to be able to do 5 gallon batches. Idk what I would do with 20 gallons of beer other than get really fat lol


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kcmobrewer said:
I am actually going with stout for all 3 vessels I think. I was truly impressed after looking them up.


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Click to expand...


There are pros and cons. You get a purpose built stainless triclover system for a good price and really there isn't much on the market that can compete. But I really hope stout is working with its supplier to get better quality work done as I have numerous inner welds where there are small pits. I may at some point bring them to my welder and have him fill and polish some of the ports.
 
kcmobrewer said:
Still worth it though?


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Click to expand...


I don't know of a comparable product on the market, especially one you can have readily customized like stout lets you. I am very happy with my purchase.
 
I wouldn't even need them customized. The way they are is amazing already. Especially that HLT with the rims tri clover setup


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Make sure you have them leak test anything you buy unless you know a great weldor. I've been waiting over a year for a nonleaking boil kettle.
 
This thread has digressed...

My boil kettle has some terrible welds. There is a big crack under the heating element port. Hasn't been a problem yet, but waiting for it. I can weld stainless so no problem, but still annoying.
 

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