RIMS for Dummies

[stlbeer]

So I have successfully built a RIMS system with 100% the help from this forum…specifically this subject. Thanks everyone for the years’ worth of feedback this has provided. My circuits are all run safely and well, and my hydraulics are sound.

Everything works like a charm with one MAJOR problem: I can’t figure out the PID SYL 4342 controller. I thought it would be as simply as setting the process temperature to my desired mash temperature…but this does not seem to be the case. I splurged for the ramp/soak option and I think that all the available programs (or “steps” if you will) may be confusing things.

Is anyone familiar with setting a 4342 that is equiped with the ramp/soad option? If so, is there any basic procedure to setting things to my desired mash temperature? I got the ramp/soak option thinking this would be great for adjusting step mashs automatically but now I would just like to get her going. The manual - while it appears to have much information - seems to be a bit techinical for me (I'm a civil engineer and I think it's written for the smarter mechical, electical and chemical types). Any help would MOST CERTAINLY be appreciated!

Thanks again everyone for the wonderful gems of knowledge this forum provides!

Initially I would want to make sure you have the correct temperature sensor you are using configured in the PID. Then I would autotune the PID on your running RIMS at or near the flow rate you are expecting from your MLT. Get autotuned first so the PID knows how quickly your system can apply heat, then go from there.

Also - looks like you got the model that works for Relay contact output and not the one for SSR control output - the 4352P. This could be the real problem. Is the PID controlling a relay contact or an SSR?

 

[Liebz15]

Initially I would want to make sure you have the correct temperature sensor you are using configured in the PID. Then I would autotune the PID on your running RIMS at or near the flow rate you are expecting from your MLT. Get autotuned first so the PID knows how quickly your system can apply heat, then go from there.

Also - looks like you got the model that works for Relay contact output and not the one for SSR control output - the 4352P. This could be the real problem. Is the PID controlling a relay contact or an SSR?

Thanks for the reply stlbeer. I am using an SSR and my output configuration option is "SSR Control, Ramp/Soak" so, unless they sent me an incorrect model from what I purchased, this should be the correct controller. My problem is that I can't even figure out how to run autotune. The instructions on't give any clear direction.

 

[magnj]

Set at to 2.

 

[Liebz15]

How is everyone's efficiencies using this RIM system? Just using a batch sparge in an igloo I typically get 75-80%. I now have this RIMS set up using a false bottom in a 10-gallon igloo. I have mashed with and without increasing to sparge temps but and still only get 62-65% efficiency. Is that the norm? If so, I can always just throw in additional grain but I'd love to find a method to be more efficient (perhaps turning off the system for a part of the time).

Aside from that, this system is great. Clearer wort than I've ever seen!

 

[phoenixs4r]

So you lost efficiency wwhen going to rims? Interesting. Channeling perhaps?

 

[Punx Clever]

How is everyone's efficiencies using this RIM system? Just using a batch sparge in an igloo I typically get 75-80%. I now have this RIMS set up using a false bottom in a 10-gallon igloo. I have mashed with and without increasing to sparge temps but and still only get 62-65% efficiency. Is that the norm? If so, I can always just throw in additional grain but I'd love to find a method to be more efficient (perhaps turning off the system for a part of the time).

Aside from that, this system is great. Clearer wort than I've ever seen!

I saw a huge uptick in my efficiency batch sparging on a rims system. I don' tremember the numbers, but it was cool.

 

[Liebz15]

So you lost efficiency wwhen going to rims? Interesting. Channeling perhaps?

Is "channeling" when most of the flow goes through one column of the mash instead of evenly? If so, would I me able to visually confirm this? I don't see any depressed area in the mash as if everything was being sucked from one area. And all of the spent mash appears to be the same color. Also, my false bottom seems to be designed hydraulically to avoid such channeling because the water falls through the holes then gets sucked from the bottom of the false bottom.

 

[Liebz15]

I saw a huge uptick in my efficiency batch sparging on a rims system. I don' tremember the numbers, but it was cool.

So did you run the RIMS normally then turn it off and do a typical batch sparge as you would a mash without any RIMS? I simply set my mash temp to 170 for 10 minutes...didn't add additional hot water to the system.

 

[phoenixs4r]

Is "channeling" when most of the flow goes through one column of the mash instead of evenly? If so, would I me able to visually confirm this? I don't see any depressed area in the mash as if everything was being sucked from one area. And all of the spent mash appears to be the same color. Also, my false bottom seems to be designed hydraulically to avoid such channeling because the water falls through the holes then gets sucked from the bottom of the false bottom.

Sometimes you can see it. The last brew I did to I looked at the mash after I finished sparging, and there was a 1/8" gap in between the mash and the cooler walls. Supposedly it doesn't matter when you batch sparge, but if the flow from the recirculation is constantly channeling, you wont be getting freshman sugars from the middle of the mash. Does that make sense? I've yet to build my rims system yet, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but just a thought.

 

[Punx Clever]

So did you run the RIMS normally then turn it off and do a typical batch sparge as you would a mash without any RIMS? I simply set my mash temp to 170 for 10 minutes...didn't add additional hot water to the system.

Re-circ at temperature for 60 mins, then ramp up to 168 for mashout for 15-20 mins. Drain the wort.

Then, add a second batch of sparge water, stir the mash, recirculate for 15 at 168.

Perhaps your problem is that you are doing a single sparge?

 

[Liebz15]

Re-circ at temperature for 60 mins, then ramp up to 168 for mashout for 15-20 mins. Drain the wort.

Then, add a second batch of sparge water, stir the mash, recirculate for 15 at 168.

Perhaps your problem is that you are doing a single sparge?

That definitely could be the problem because I never thought of adding an additional round of sparge water. Another issue may be my mis-calculating the dead space loss. I had to add an extra 1/2 gallon to my boil to get it to 5.5 gallons (assume half gallon loss in boil to get me to 5 gallon final).

Thanks for the help and I will let you know how my next batch turns out!

 

[Liebz15]

Sometimes you can see it. The last brew I did to I looked at the mash after I finished sparging, and there was a 1/8" gap in between the mash and the cooler walls. Supposedly it doesn't matter when you batch sparge, but if the flow from the recirculation is constantly channeling, you wont be getting freshman sugars from the middle of the mash. Does that make sense? I've yet to build my rims system yet, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but just a thought.

That makes perfect sense and I will definitely check the outer edges of my mash next brew. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Liebz15]

Thanks to all of the usefull knowledge on this thread, I have completed my RIMS system. Since I live in an apartment and typically brew in friends' backyards, I decided to make my mash system completely mobile. Check out the pics (if I have attached them correctly). I am now working on a sparge tank that will have a disconnect so I can get my efficiency up.

 

[Punx Clever]

That PID is HUUUUUGE! But looks like a nice, compact setup.

 

[Liebz15]

That PID is HUUUUUGE! But looks like a nice, compact setup.

Thanks! I wanted plenty of room for wire maintenance so I went with the larger weather box. And yes, the PID face is rather large as I went with the suggested model at the beginning of this thread. Overall, I can't complain.

 

[stlbeer]

Nice setup! The important part is it works for you.

 

[ZWood15]

Here are a couple pics of the rims in a box I'm building with a buddy. Used a gang box for the switches and U bolts to mount the tube. Still have to finish wiring it up, but its coming together nicely!

 

[klyph]

What material are those couplers on the pump?

 

[dsmith1279]

Folks, on page 70 of the thread and love it!!! I thought id pass along a group ive used quite a bit in the past for SS fittings. Sometimes they are quite a bit cheaper than the folks that ive seen referenced on the thread. Thoguh it might be a way to save a few bucks. Dultmeier.com | Car Wash Supplies, Ag Sprayer Parts, Equipment, Pumps

 

[dsmith1279]

Folks, on page 70 of the thread and love it!!! I thought id pass along a group ive used quite a bit in the past for SS fittings. Sometimes they are quite a bit cheaper than the folks that ive seen referenced on the thread. Thought it might be a way to save a few bucks. Dultmeier.com | Car Wash Supplies, Ag Sprayer Parts, Equipment, Pumps

 

[Huaco]

Folks, on page 70 of the thread and love it!!! I thought id pass along a group ive used quite a bit in the past for SS fittings. Sometimes they are quite a bit cheaper than the folks that ive seen referenced on the thread. Thoguh it might be a way to save a few bucks. Dultmeier.com | Car Wash Supplies, Ag Sprayer Parts, Equipment, Pumps

Wow... I have been tabulating a spreadsheet on SS suppliers and this place is probably half price on almost everything I have been seeing elsewhere...
but... man, their site is SLOW!!!!

 

[dsmith1279]

Yep wicked slowbut VERY cheap! Check out the price of their three piece SS ball valves!

 

[Huaco]

Yep wicked slowbut VERY cheap! Check out the price of their three piece SS ball valves!

yep... saw that too! probably all el cheapo china junk but heck, for what we are doing, we don't need pressure ratings and such...

 

[borny]

Excellent thread! Brewed twice with my rims system! Second brew was 10 gallons of dry stout and I got 85% effeciency. Not quiet expecting that.

 

[dulavjo]

does anyone have photos of the wiring of the rims tube along with the ssr,pid and temp probe. how people have mounted the components and what Gage wire and type of wire for the wiring

 

[TravelingBrewer22]

+1

 

[Coldies]

does anyone have photos of the wiring of the rims tube along with the ssr,pid and temp probe. how people have mounted the components and what Gage wire and type of wire for the wiring

Take a look in the electric forum. PJ has posted a lot of diagrams for various styles. Everybody does something different so the wiring diagram will vary.

 

[stlbeer]

does anyone have photos of the wiring of the rims tube along with the ssr,pid and temp probe. how people have mounted the components and what Gage wire and type of wire for the wiring

Maybe this will help. PM your email if you want full size pics.

RIMS pictures by StLBeer - Photobucket

 

[dulavjo]

just ordered my parts today. still not sure how to wire it up. I don't want to use a toolbox, so what size electrical box do I need. I would like to upgrade to 2 PIDs and an electric timer.

 

[danrb]

I'm new here and just jumped down this rabbit hole. Great thread, but I see a path of constant improvement and upgrades. Where does it end? When you go fully automated electric brewery? And yes I've been lurking at that website too.

Thanks to everyone for all the great ideas and innovation!

Now for a couple of questions.

1. I like the cool looking control boxes, with the big lights and switches. Where do you find these?

2. I have basic electrical knowledge, in that I've wired (successfully) my basement and sub-panel. What additional electrical knowledge should I be reading up on?

Thanks again,

Dan