RIMS for Dummies

[pola0502ds]

I tried the autotune feature and it did it for the first couple minutes so I shut it off.

 

[Reelale]

Run the autotune to completion, with normal flow rates you experience when brewing. It's how the PID learns your system and sets the parameters needed to maintain the set-point without severe oscillations (overshoots and undershoots). Someone elses parameters many not be appropriate for your system.

 

[pola0502ds]

Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.

 

[Reelale]

Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.

Sounds about right to me. It's tuning itself to system variables and setting the PID parameters. After you run through the autotune then run it in automatic mode, it should behave normally.

 

[Quaffer]

Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.

During auto tune on my HLT, the lower (green) display alternates ones per second between set point temperature and a message. I think it says "At" or something similar. It takes several seconds to minutes for it to complete. It turns the heater on constantly until the set point is reached, then it turns it off while measuring the temperature decay. On a RIMS tube I suppose it could be over in a few seconds.

 

[pola0502ds]

Thanks Quaffer, hey your the guy from the BYO mag showing up to build a keezer right?

 

[pola0502ds]

Question about the autotune process. When I go to do it, what should I set my target value to? Should it be 30-40 degrees above the actual temp or should be 2-3 degrees above the actual temp?

Example, if your actual temp was 70 degrees would you set the target temp to 73 degrees or 100 degrees.

 

[Quaffer]

Thanks Quaffer, hey your the guy from the BYO mag showing up to build a keezer right?

You are welcome, and yes.

 

[pola0502ds]

The autotune feature, once you do it you can never do it again correct? i did it once and something happened to my panel and i lost power. I don't think it finished the auto tune process but when I go to try and do it again it won't let me.

Also, How do you guys have your PID programmed? Say i have the temp set at 150, it will reach that and the PID will shut off power. Once it goes below 150 it will not turn back on until it reaches 147. Is there away to change that so it doesn't drop 3 degrees before it comes back on?

 

[klyph]

If it's an Auber PID, you can tune it as many times as you want. If you properly run the autotune, you won't see a 3 degree temperature oscillation.

You also have to be running the system with as close to the same conditions as you would when brewing while running the autotune. How did you have it set up when you ran the autotune?

 

[pola0502ds]

The only things I changed or setup during the autotune was, I throttled back the valve so the liquid was moving at a rate of 1 gallon per minute. The PID can run at "limit control mode", "PID mode" and "manual", I set it to limit control mode. I think thats what they were called. But those are the only 3 changes I made.

 

[pola0502ds]

Here's another question. I am only using 1 of the 2 alarams avaiable on my PID but the indicator light for the 2nd one still stays on as if it is programmed for a alarm. Is there anyway to turn that light off so I don't get confused?

 

[klyph]

The alarm is probably set for like 50 degrees. Just set it to 220 degrees and it won't turn on (hopefully). If it does, you're in a dry fire situation.

 

[pola0502ds]

Thanks

 

[pola0502ds]

Has anyone had problems with their element rusting? I have the same element as the one listed on the parts list at the begining of this thread. I left some water in the rims tube for a few days, not knowing it, and then i took the element out and the base of the element rusted. I cleaned it up and nothing pitted or anything like that. It's almost like where the element connects to the base there wasn't a good seal so the water got inside and something produced rust. Anyway, i don't know if this element will work for brew days? I don't know if it will rust when I have wort in there for the time I will be mashing or what? But everytime i use this element i guess I will have to clean it.

Whats your experience been with elements and rusting?

 

[klyph]

Seems like it's been covered in this very thread, but yes, the base of the element will rust unless you cover it with silicone or use a sacrificial anode.

 

[pola0502ds]

Do you know what posts it was cover in? I'm not about to read 80 pages of posts, it would take forever. Is there a way just to search this thread?

 

[rosienej]

I was successful in using extreme temp pipe heaters over stainless steel pipe to make a RIMS systems. I can post details if there is interest.

 

[pola0502ds]

Yes, please post. I'm sure there are people other than myself that would be interested.

 

[Quaffer]

I was successful in using extreme temp pipe heaters over stainless steel pipe to make a RIMS systems. I can post details if there is interest.

Yes, of course. Post away. I am interested.

 

[rosienej]

As built...

and

Here are the parts...

Parts from McMaster-Carr
1 1 each 4550T141 Extreme-Temperature Heat Tape 13 Watts/Square Inch, 8 ft Length, 624 Watts, 120 V today $69.07 each 69.07
2 2 each 4464K51 Type 304 Stainless STL Threaded Pipe Fitting 1/2" Pipe Size, Tee, 150 PSI today $7.18 each 14.36
3 1 each 4813K124 Standard-Wall Type 304/304L SS Threaded Pipe 1/2" Pipe, 0.84" OD, 18" L, 13/16" Thread Length today $18.65 each 18.65
4 2 each 4464K234 Type 304 Stainless STL Threaded Pipe Fitting 1/2" Pipe Size, Square Head Plug, 150 PSI today $3.21 each 6.42
5 1 roll 9379K92 Ultra-High Temp Foil-Faced Insulation Strip 1/2" Thick, 2" X 12' today $11.39 roll 11.39

Merchandise total
$119.89 Of one section. I used two for a total of 1200 watts..

 

[Reelale]

And the advantage over an internal element is? It's a great design, I just don't see the utility over heating internally in a single tube.

 

[rosienej]

I didn't want to have to disassemble to clean the tube and heating element. Here, I pull the end plugs and run a long brush through the open tube. No advantage, just different.

Joel.

 

[Reelale]

I didn't want to have to disassemble to clean the tube and heating element. Here, I pull the end plugs and run a long brush through the open tube. No advantage, just different.

Joel.

Ah. Makes sense. That is an advantage then on a one-piece tube. I do have to manually clean the element on mine every time. Even when I CIP.

 

[pola0502ds]

I guess I really don't undestand how your rims tube works? Where is the source of heat to heat it externally?

 

[rosienej]

I wrap the pipes with the extreme temp heat tape (working temp of the pipe heating tape is really high) and then wrap the pipe and the heat tape with high temp insulation.

http://www.heatingtapes.com/tape.html

Make sure you use the correct type of insulation, the pipe insulation sold at home debit (etc) is not rated for the temp (smoke and maybe fire).

I tested the setup using a pressure relief valve on the heaters, but with constant flow, I never had an issue, so I removed it in the final form. If you loose flow, you could produce steam and pressurize the system, which would be bad.

Of course use GFI protected power only.


Joel

 

[rosienej]

Here is the lastest run of the system...

Joel

 

[rosienej]

Here is the whole process...

This is acquired with Labview, The batch sparging removes the sensor from the mashtun..

Here we ramped using the heaters... (about 5 gallons of water in the system with the grains)
the rise rate dropped to 6 to 7 degrees a minute...

I have a PID and new sensor which I will be interfacing next week to make the system independent of
the test stand. I will document these results as well.

Joel

 

[rosienej]

I am working on a automated HLT to inject a measured amount of brew water into the RIMS, should I post it here or start a new topic?

The build I am doing has the following features:

1) Computer Controlled Pump
2) Computer Controlled Electric Drum Heater
3) Digital (Pulse) flow meter to measure the amount of water into the mashtun
4) Check-valve to prevent backflow from mash
5) Pressure sensor to measure water in the HLT (and increase precision on the water transfer)
6) A PWM MEMS based temp sensor from Analog Devices.

All parts will be easy to get.

Joel

 

[pola0502ds]

I wrap the pipes with the extreme temp heat tape (working temp of the pipe heating tape is really high) and then wrap the pipe and the heat tape with high temp insulation.

http://www.heatingtapes.com/tape.html

Make sure you use the correct type of insulation, the pipe insulation sold at home debit (etc) is not rated for the temp (smoke and maybe fire).

I tested the setup using a pressure relief valve on the heaters, but with constant flow, I never had an issue, so I removed it in the final form. If you loose flow, you could produce steam and pressurize the system, which would be bad.

Of course use GFI protected power only.


Joel

I don't know whats going on but i still don't understand how your pipes are heating anything. Is there a element in them?