RIMS for Dummies

[rcrabb22]

Do you take it apart to clean it once in a while?

 

[lamarguy]

Do you take it apart to clean it once in a while?

Shouldn't need to assuming you run a cleaner (PBW, detergent, etc.) through it after brewing. It's the same logic as using a March pump, you should only need to take it apart if you encounter problems.

With that said, if I goofed and accidentally ran the RIMS element dry, I would certainly take it apart to scrub off the burnt wort.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Doesn't get much simpler than that! Nice work. People mare very hesitant to provide electrical assistance on the forum because of the liability with liquid. Thanks for this.

 

[bakins]

With that said, if I goofed and accidentally ran the RIMS element dry, I would certainly take it apart to scrub off the burnt wort.

Having done so, I ran near boiling PBW water through it again, and again, and again. (ie, several different batches of PBW water) Then near boiling rinse water the same.

 

[Boar Beer]

Sawdustguy
I like your post very much and I think i am going to follow your build. How did this device work in practice? Did your efficiency go up at all? did you have any problems with overheating?

 

[lamarguy]

Sawdustguy, I like your post very much and I think i am going to follow your build.

The only change I would recommend is use 1.5" pipe, as others have noted...

 

[skibumdc]

The only change I would recommend is use 1.5" pipe, as others have noted...

WHy 1.5" vs 2"?

 

[skibumdc]

Why in your parts listing do you specify a 2"x6" SS pipe(S4N2x6), but the part number you specified is a 2"x10"(S4NX10) piece of SS tubing?

Which is correct? I assume the 10" pipe, since the heating element you chose is 7+" long.


Also, do the example photos use the same parts? Seems to use more busings that in your parts list? Is the two bushings at the bottom of the Tee's 1/2" to 1/4" bushings?

 

[slimer]

WHy 1.5" vs 2"?

Too much mass to heat. It decreases the efficiency of heat transfer.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Also, do the example photos use the same parts? Seems to use more busings that in your parts list? Is the two bushings at the bottom of the Tee's 1/2" to 1/4" bushings?

I had to use 2 bushings because they were out of stock on the bushing I wanted. I didn't want to wait so I did it with 2 bushings. The supplier felt bad they weren't in stock so he gave me one of the bushings for free. Kapish.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Why in your parts listing do you specify a 2"x6" SS pipe(S4N2x6), but the part number you specified is a 2"x10"(S4NX10) piece of SS tubing?

It was a transcription error. I meant to type 2" x 10" but had a brain fart.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Why in your parts listing do you specify a 2"x6" SS pipe(S4N2x6), but the part number you specified is a 2"x10"(S4NX10) piece of SS tubing?

It is supposed to be 2 x 10. I have a brain fart when typing, so sue me.

 

[jwright]

Noob question alert.
For some unanswerable reason I have suddenly become very interested in HERMS / RIMS and am still struggling to wrap my head around the pros/cons of each method.
I am wondering what temperature the wort reaches as it passes the element. I know the average temperature downstream is measured by the thermocouple, but I am wondering about the wort that passes closest to the actual element.
Here is where I might blow some basic brewing facts. The enzymes that are responsible for Saccharification denature at higher temperature (beta ~152, alpha higher). Is the heating element raising the immediate temperature high enough that is denaturing these proteins? If so ( I can't seem to recall off the top of my head,) will these proteins reform as the temperature falls back below their denaturation point?
Is this an actual concern or only theoretical masturbation?
I am really sorry if this is a sore point or has already been hashed out for a hundred times. Please feel free to ignore or bitch slap as warrented.
jason

 

[bakins]

Is this an actual concern or only theoretical masturbation?

Mostly the latter.

However, with RIMS at least, this is why most people use a LWD (low watt density) element to avoid scorching.

The enzymes are not instantaneously denatured, if I understand the science, anyway.

 

[skibumdc]

jwright,
That's a very good question regarding scorching the wort with a RIMS system.
Curious what others will say.
I know with HERMS it would be safer in that respect....but a much more involved setup.

 

[Sawdustguy]

jwright,
That's a very good question regarding scorching the wort with a RIMS system.
Curious what others will say.
I know with HERMS it would be safer in that respect....but a much more involves setup.

Not true, if you use the proper element in your RIMS tube. If you use a high density, element you are almost guarantied to scortch the Mash. If you use a low density or extra low density element you are very safe. I have never scortched the Mash with a low density element.

 

[samc]

Used my Sawdust RIMS pipe bomb for the first time 2+ weeks ago. It worked very well even though I had some other issues with the pickup tube creating a stuck flow of wort. Fortunately a neighbor helped me out and we quickly transferred the mash to the BK (nice to have a false bottom in both keggles!) and got back to a clean flowing recirculation. All in all I think I mashed a bit longer than planned at a total lower temperature due to the problem.

The end result however is an excellent clone of Rogues Brutal Bitter and even at this young stage it is very drinkable.

Kudos again to Guy for getting me moving on RIMS.

All I have left to do (ha ha) is figure out if I want to control my HLT as a gas or electric vessel.

 

[jwright]

Thanks guys!
That is what I was hoping to hear.
Is it really so simple - I can add a pump and a RIMS unit to my existing cooler mash tun with a bazooka tube and have automated electric mash temperature control?
Great guide.
jason

 

[Sawdustguy]

Thanks guys!
That is what I was hoping to hear.
Is it really so simple - I can add a pump and a RIMS unit to my existing cooler mash tun with a bazooka tube and have automated electric mash temperature control?
Great guide.
jason

Yes, it is really that simple. The reason I created this thread was to show fellow brewers that it is not the expensive and complicated setup they think it is. It is not very hard to implement and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[jwright]

You are my hero.

Really, it is great that you were able to present your plan/method in such a straight forward and easy to understand way. By presenting the 'big picture' it makes it much easier to see this as an easy, and more importantly, viable solution. You have removed many of the lingering details that often prevent newer diy-ers from starting a seemingly complex endevor.
Thanks again.
Jason

PS. now where is that HERMS for dummies?

 

[Sawdustguy]

PS. now where is that HERMS for dummies?

Working on it! The last of the Trilogy of:

RIMS for Dummies
Gas and Temperature Control for Dummies
HERMS for Dummies

 

[jwright]

Sawdustguy,
I'm kinda afraid to ask this, but regarding #41, 42. Any chance you did have the nipple length correct at 6"? I'm looking at your beautiful pictures, and I can't see how that is a 10" long pipe. Knowing that the tee ports are 2", it just doesn't map out. The 7" long element would fit easily once you add 2 of the 4" long tees. I keep going back to the pictures, and looking at several other threads and have seen several others using the 6" nipples. I hope you could clarify.

FWIW, you have finally swayed me over to the RIMS camp. I really wanted to go HERMS for several reasons. One, I already had extra copper coil, so the cost would have only been a couple of fitting. Second, I was hoping to gain HLT temperature automation as a freebie. Third, intuitively, the indirect heating used in the HERMS seemed more ideal.

After reading what seems like 200 pages of posts and may good natured 'discussions', I can not discount the experience of you and the many supporters of RIMS. With all of those batches under the collective belt, and the years of experience here on HBT --now I believe, I believe! So by spending a little more money to go RIMS, I can untether my MLT from my HLT, simplify the brew day process and have a future project to look forward to (automated HLT).

Thanks again to everyone who keeps helping others,
Jason

 

[Sawdustguy]

Sawdustguy,
I'm kinda afraid to ask this, but regarding #41, 42. Any chance you did have the nipple length correct at 6"? I'm looking at your beautiful pictures, and I can't see how that is a 10" long pipe. Knowing that the tee ports are 2", it just doesn't map out. The 7" long element would fit easily once you add 2 of the 4" long tees. I keep going back to the pictures, and looking at several other threads and have seen several others using the 6" nipples. I hope you could clarify.

FWIW, you have finally swayed me over to the RIMS camp. I really wanted to go HERMS for several reasons. One, I already had extra copper coil, so the cost would have only been a couple of fitting. Second, I was hoping to gain HLT temperature automation as a freebie. Third, intuitively, the indirect heating used in the HERMS seemed more ideal.

After reading what seems like 200 pages of posts and may good natured 'discussions', I can not discount the experience of you and the many supporters of RIMS. With all of those batches under the collective belt, and the years of experience here on HBT --now I believe, I believe! So by spending a little more money to go RIMS, I can untether my MLT from my HLT, simplify the brew day process and have a future project to look forward to (automated HLT).

Thanks again to everyone who keeps helping others,
Jason

You are absolutely right. I started with a 10" nipple to keep the element as far away from the thermocouple as I could but it was rediculously long. I then switched to a 6" nipple. I never got to change the parts list. The 10" will work just fine but is way longer than needed. The RIMS works incredibly well. If you intend to automate the HLT as I did have a look at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/gas-temperature-control-dummies-116632/. The third in the trilogy will be HERMS for Dummies but alas I am not a HERMS Fan. If you need any help just ping me.

 

[kryolla]

I bought the parts to make this but do you recirc without vorlouf or will the grains mess up the pump until it starts to run clear? My plan is to run water until I hit mash temps then dough in and recirc until I hit mash temps in my 5 gallon cooler w/false bottom then turn it off and move it to heat my sparge water and do the same thing until I get to mash out temps. Thanks

 

[Iechyd Da]

Could I use a Ranco control in place of the PID, relay, and temp sensor? I already have a Ranco and thermowell that I'm not using.

 

[bakins]

Could I use a Ranco control in place of the PID, relay, and temp sensor? I already have a Ranco and thermowell that I'm not using.

Issue is that it may tend to overshoot the set temperature.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I bought the parts to make this but do you recirc without vorlouf or will the grains mess up the pump until it starts to run clear? My plan is to run water until I hit mash temps then dough in and recirc until I hit mash temps in my 5 gallon cooler w/false bottom then turn it off and move it to heat my sparge water and do the same thing until I get to mash out temps. Thanks

If you use a false bottom in your mash tun there is no problem. I have been doing this for a while with no ill effects to my pump. RIMS systems have been around for a very long time. No need to vorlauf.

 

[Iechyd Da]

Issue is that it may tend to overshoot the set temperature.

Why is that? I have no experience with PIDs and how they would work differently than a Ranco.

 

[leboeuf]

Wiki PID controllers. A ranco/etc. controler just has a set point and a hysteresis, a PID has second order prediction. The ranco will work fine for controlling a heater on a large amount of water because the thermal capacitance serves to control overshoot/stability/etc. The PID is better suited for fine control where finesse is needed. If your ranco couldn't keep up with your heating element the entire system would be unstable and oscillate; the PID however will enable you to tune your control system to be able to handle a variety of situations.

Hope that helped....
--Tom

 

[kryolla]

the ranco is an on/off thermostat and PID control how much power goes to the heater so it will be full blast until it gets to a set point then reduce the power so it doesnt overshoot the temp then it will apply just enough power to keep it at that temp i.e autotune. So a ranco is good for like freezers and frig that has to run as an on/off due to the motor but certain type of heaters doesn't like water heater element so you can use a PID or proportional thermostat which takes reading every x milliseconds and adjusts the output accordingly.