REX-C100 PID (cheapest PID on ebay)

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mattd2

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... And, he did not want the other one back, so I have it. Though I have no use for it.
Sorry I can't help with you question, but as for the "unuseful" PID there have been a few people who have converted them to SSR output as I think the control circuit to the internal mech relay is the correct voltage for a SSR, basically as it would go in my head it was open it up - desolder the relay - solder jumers from where the relay control pins were to where the output pins were - close it up and away you go.
Do a search on here first though cause I might be wrong ;)
 

morzh

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Thanks, mattd2,

I think I'd be able to figure it out once I open the box. Myself I am an EE, so circuitry is no mystery - what's mystery is how to open the dang thing - doesn't seem to want to let me do it to it. The tab I have at the front panel doe not release anything once pressed. And Since this is the last controller I have, I do not want to damage it.

So I solicited help from one of the members here through private message. Maybe I get lucky and he answers. :)

Cheers and good malting!
 

betadave

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The configuration menu on the controller lets you add or subtract from the displayed temperature. What I did was put a thermometer in the sous vide cooker I built and just added the few degrees my system needed. From then on the controller did its job. I am not too sure you should ever see a negative temperature as that is a lot of deviation so be careful. Set the controller to the temperature you want and let the system come to equilibrium. Note the difference and then adjust the controller to get that reading. I would then check a few set points and be sure they are good numbers. It is possible that there is a problem with either the controller or the thermocouple. Don't use boiling as the controller is not built for that.

If you want to use it as a boiling control you need to set it for P only and no I or D. Then set the temperature set point a certain number of degrees above the boiling temperature. The output will be a fixed percentage of the difference. Whatever the full bandwidth is should give 100% and then adjusting the delta T down would reduce the percentage. Since boiling point is pretty much a fixed number, you should get steady control. Remember concentration raises boiling point and changes in atmospheric pressure changes boiling point. If you want to go back to regular control you need to put the I and D numbers back and away you go. If I were going to do this, I would buy a second one since they are cheap and not bother with the reprogramming.
 

ferari12

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Morzh,
I also noticed that the controller reacted quite slowly. I believe that is to preserve the mechanical relay that it is meant to control. However, the unit is not actually as primitive as I first thought. If you go into the settings menu, there is a setting displayed as "ArU" which a "learning" mode. The default value is 0 but if you set it to 1 and then run through a cycle it will set the units parameters automatically to make it work ideally for your system. The heating cycles will become much shorter (in my system they are often less than a second) and generally improve its performance. I've been impressed with the capability of the unit considering how little I paid for it.
 

betadave

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I opened the case by pushing in two tabs and it pops open as I remember. The cycle time can be adjusted to quite short if you like. Somewhere on the web is the users manual and you can get all the control setting information you need. There is at least one place with a good manual and several that seemed to be short of info. I shortened the cycle time for mine since it is a 500 watt heating pad I use and cycles are of no consequence.

You are right about it is obvious when you open the case. I am a Chem E with an amateur advanced radio license. It took me about one minute with a VOM to identify the holes to wire into (they were already pass through holes and I left the relay clicking as I had no reason to care if it wears out, ever...)
 

morzh

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Hey guys, thanks for the feedback: I was actually able to open the unit that same day posted here, with a bit more persistence on my part.
De-soldered the relay, completed the mod.

Ferari12,

Yes I did run "ATU" (its autotune) and the operation I described to you was in fact after it was run (it does read ArU - limitations of the 7-segment display).
It works. But the CAL32 I have is more nimble and accurate.

Actually the heating is very fast. The boiler is small. So when the SSR stops and the boiler cools off, after it falls 2 degrees C below (I was trying to go to degrees F, but somehow this controller won't go to the unprotected data setup, the parameter SL2 is the one that controls it) it will then energize the SSR for 2 secs, and it is enough to overshoot by 10 degrees. Of course I don't think water inside jumps that much I measure the temp inside the threaded hole where the thermostat used to go.

I think I should try to do away with Integral part, increase Diff. part and keep playing with Proportional part.

All in all, the two units I received are obviously fake RKCs, and the one that did not work (the one with true SSR control), actually is utterly different from the manual - all parameters' names are different, and the manual is in Chinese.

The real RKC PID will cost at least over 100 bucks, and this one sells for 20.
Well, you get what you pay for.



Betadave,

Yes I have the manual; like I said, it is somewhat helpful with the one I am working with right now (totally useless with the other one). Both units came from the same seller.
On the good side, the insides are so obvious, I did not even have to use the meter to see what pins I have to put out; the only thing I had to do is to, after I did it, measure the polarity, so to know where the + and where the - are. Oh, and I had to run t5o Radio Shack to buy me a vacuum-sucker to desolder the relay. Turned out, some EEs do not have them at home :)

Cheers!
 
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What I mean - ask the buyers if they sell "V"-type (SSR driver) and should they screw you on description - they will pick up the tab. Their fault.
It's not always that easy. Different sellers do things differently.

My friend ended up getting royally screwed and the guy would only refund half of his money and only AFTER my friend gave positive feedback.
 

mattd2

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It's not always that easy. Different sellers do things differently.

My friend ended up getting royally screwed and the guy would only refund half of his money and only AFTER my friend gave positive feedback.
And I bet the seller also waited for the time that you can change your feedback to elapse before refunding too. Ebay can be a dodgy place ;) It is these guys that make the rating system worthless!
 

dspano

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Thanks everyone for your posts. I bought two of these PIDs and got burnt by the ebay sellers in Hong Kong. I didn't realize until I finally hooked a 9v battery to terminals 4 and 5 that they were not what I paid for. I soldered in the jumpers on both and now they work like they should. Thanks again! I'll be buying from Auber Instruments next time.
 

mattd2

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Thanks everyone for your posts. I bought two of these PIDs and got burnt by the ebay sellers in Hong Kong. I didn't realize until I finally hooked a 9v battery to terminals 4 and 5 that they were not what I paid for. I soldered in the jumpers on both and now they work like they should. Thanks again! I'll be buying from Auber Instruments next time.
Did you contact the seller? Seems like a few of them are reasonable in terms of setting things right if you actually ordered the SSR version but they sent the relay ones.
 

dspano

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Did you contact the seller? Seems like a few of them are reasonable in terms of setting things right if you actually ordered the SSR version but they sent the relay ones.
Sorry for the late reply. I bought these way back in January, so I doubt I'd get my money back. I was finally able to test them this week. For the price, it was worth the ten minutes of soldering. They worked really well.
Now I just have to figure out what the hell I'm gonna brew for my test batch. Lol!
 

betadave

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I've been using my REX C100 to run my sous vide cooker for about 6 months now. It does a great job. Maybe it isn't making brew but it makes great food to go with the brew.
 

thargrav

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Even the Japanese ones are really made in China and I can buy them direct from China for less than $30.00 each with shipping.
 

morzh

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Even the Japanese ones are really made in China and I can buy them direct from China for less than $30.00 each with shipping.
From my own experience - it is not the same.

The ones you buy on e-bay from Hongcong are most of the time counterfeits. They, yes, are PIDs and they work, but they are not in agreement with the REX C100 manual, the names of the variables are different, and one of the two I bought is just totally different and the manual simply does not apply, and another one is kinda in agreement, but only kinda....limited compliance.

Also the guys simply misinforms you.

The one I bought that claimed to be with SSR output was with Relay output, and then when he sent me the one with SSR output - it was 220V one. When I told this to him, he said "no, don't worry, it is universal 110/220V". So when I plugged it in, it lighted up, but the temp measurement did not work, and I thought it was defective. Then I plugged it in 220V and it did work.

It is a mess. But still, I agree - you, most probably, will get something that works, and cheap. But - no guarantee it will, and it is a counterfeit, and even the manual (like the last one I got) may be in Chinese. Of course if you read Chinese - no problem there. :)
 

thargrav

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I just talked to my supplier and sure enough, the sample I have coming is only in C but he does state that it has a SSR output as well as a control relay. Also, he does not understand why we need a F scale. I guess I'll keep looking.
 

morzh

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Well, mine is also in C, and had it been the real thing (not a counterfeit) - it has a variable that changes C to F. But I went through the variables - sure enough, it's not there.

You get what you pay for, but most of the time it is enough. :)
 

dspano

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From my own experience - it is not the same.

The ones you buy on e-bay from Hongcong are most of the time counterfeits. They, yes, are PIDs and they work, but they are not in agreement with the REX C100 manual, the names of the variables are different, and one of the two I bought is just totally different and the manual simply does not apply, and another one is kinda in agreement, but only kinda....limited compliance.

Also the guys simply misinforms you.

The one I bought that claimed to be with SSR output was with Relay output, and then when he sent me the one with SSR output - it was 220V one. When I told this to him, he said "no, don't worry, it is universal 110/220V". So when I plugged it in, it lighted up, but the temp measurement did not work, and I thought it was defective. Then I plugged it in 220V and it did work.

It is a mess. But still, I agree - you, most probably, will get something that works, and cheap. But - no guarantee it will, and it is a counterfeit, and even the manual (like the last one I got) may be in Chinese. Of course if you read Chinese - no problem there. :)

morzh is right. I have one of each. One that says Made in Japan and one that says Made in China. The Chinese version is slightly different, and did not work until I had it running on a 220V circuit. I ended up using it on the boil kettle. I used the Japanese one on my HLT to control the mash because it worked a little better.

You could get the Chinese version working for either though.
 

thyaguster

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Hi. I found this item on ebay when I was looking for a temperature controller.
I don't really know how a PID works...

This is dual channel, so it means I can connect the heater and the cooler and it controls both?

Thank you.
 

morzh

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Where's the e-bay link?


A PID is a temperature controller, that has a complex algorithm of controlling a heater (a cooler) using "Proportional, Integral or Derivative" functions - read Wikipedia, if you are interested, it is quite simple.
 
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That does not look like the REX C100 PID, but you never know what you are going to get.

That one actually looks very similar to a TET612 or JLD612, which is the kind of PID that I actually use on my system. It might just be a knock-off of the 612. If it is a knock off, it is theoretically programmable to use a built-in relay as the control output or use the SSR output as the control.

SO, while I can't/won't make you any guarantees, that one looks more promising than the junk-ass REX C100's floating around out there.
 

Brewing Clamper

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Well isn't this a bitch. First, I got my C-100 to power which was an issue at first. I assumed this meant it was working so I went to work on it. I removed the mechanical relay and bridged the relay input signal to the output:



I have tested it and it works, sort of. The PID does run an SSR perfectly. The only problem is that when I plug in the K-Type thermocouple it gives me a reading of ----º, and unplugged it gives me a reading of 1285º. This seams to be a problem others have had and been unable to fix. I guess I'm stuck with a non-functioning piece of crap. I was hoping to use this until I got further along in my project and ordered the BCS-640. Now I have to decided if I want to order a new PID from Aubers or just go for the big guns. Dammit...
 

betadave

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Have you checked your thermocouple for an open circuit or a dead short?
 
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Have you checked your thermocouple for an open circuit or a dead short?
It's not the thermocouple. This is the same sort problem that happened with the one my friend bought (mentioned in original post in this thread).

If there is no probe connected at all to a PID, the thing should be displaying EEEE, because no probe connected is an error. If you get any number showing up without a probe connected, the PID is busted and has a short somewhere internally.
 

Jazzeux

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Thanks to all of you. I bought 2 of these yesterday on ebay. I asked the seller to refund it minutes ago... before he ships them. I know that sometimes we have fake items from china, but if at least it works as intended!! I don't have a lot of electrical skills, so I really need something more "idiot proof" :D
 

mattd2

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Thanks to all of you. I bought 2 of these yesterday on ebay. I asked the seller to refund it minutes ago... before he ships them. I know that sometimes we have fake items from china, but if at least it works as intended!! I don't have a lot of electrical skills, so I really need something more "idiot proof" :D
Check out the Sestos brand PID on ebay, about the same price as the REX but seems like most people have been happy with theres (and the a pretty similar to the aubers, only some minor differences). Check out this thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sestos-pid-temperature-controllers-d1s-vr-220-a-203939/
I got mine from mixtea on ebay:
PID with TC & SSR http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-OFF-Digi...443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336e01fa33
SSR heatsink http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heat-Sink-1...034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336f802872
 

morzh

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Make sure your unit says explicitly 110V/220V"" and not "220V" only.
They sent me one like that with SSR control, and it powers, but does not really measure correctly. It says 220V but they claimed it works from 110V.
They did send me replacement for 110V but that was relay unit; I desoldered the relay and control SSR from 12V and it works fine; what I am not sure of in your case is that a relay unit is necessarily 110V-capable.

As long as you did not leave the feedback on the Ebay, they WILL work with you (did work with me); after that, they won't.

Well isn't this a bitch. First, I got my C-100 to power which was an issue at first. I assumed this meant it was working so I went to work on it. I removed the mechanical relay and bridged the relay input signal to the output:



I have tested it and it works, sort of. The PID does run an SSR perfectly. The only problem is that when I plug in the K-Type thermocouple it gives me a reading of ----º, and unplugged it gives me a reading of 1285º. This seams to be a problem others have had and been unable to fix. I guess I'm stuck with a non-functioning piece of crap. I was hoping to use this until I got further along in my project and ordered the BCS-640. Now I have to decided if I want to order a new PID from Aubers or just go for the big guns. Dammit...
 
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My friend bought one for a toolbox RIMS, but we haven't put the system together yet. I will definitely post back here with opinions when we have his stuff done.
 

Bobby_M

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I contacted them for the user manual. There are some things I'd want to verify.

Does it really go Fahrenheit?
Does it have max T (cycle time) adjustment (probably not)
Does it have manual mode (probably not)
 
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I contacted them for the user manual. There are some things I'd want to verify.

Does it really go Fahrenheit?
Does it have max T (cycle time) adjustment (probably not)
Does it have manual mode (probably not)
That seller is US based and the company has been around for a while, and I am pretty sure their listings are accurate.

They declare the model number as TA4-SNR, which decodes well:


We have not fired his up, but based on the manual he has, it seems legit. No manual mode, though, which is irrelevant for him since he just wants RIMs heat control and no boil control.
 

nate456789

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Any word on these being legit? And usable? My controller is dying on me and I was thinking about getting a couple of these.
Looks like I can save $16 a pop vs the Auber ones.
I like the one with the Manual control. I am assuming it would function like my LOVE controller in this mode?

Thanks
 

Jazzeux

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Check out the Sestos brand PID on ebay, about the same price as the REX but seems like most people have been happy with theres (and the a pretty similar to the aubers, only some minor differences). Check out this thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sestos-pid-temperature-controllers-d1s-vr-220-a-203939/
I got mine from mixtea on ebay:
PID with TC & SSR http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-OFF-Digi...443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336e01fa33
SSR heatsink http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heat-Sink-1...034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336f802872
For a few bucks more, I prefer to get the Auber's PID. They have custommer service and there are a lot of experienced users on the forum. But, I will use heatsinks from ebay. I already bought 2 Auber PID and I am waiting for them.
 

treed1968

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Can you tell me how you wired the REX-C100 PID controller to the SSR after modification? I have mine modified but can't seem to get it to work properly.
 

betadave

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When I got my case open, I located the relay and which side was the input side of the relay. I used a VOM to determine that the 12 volt signal was there when the relay was active. On my circuit board there were unused holes that gave me both 12v and ground. I got a red and a black wire and soldered them to the two available holes and ran them out the back of the case. Close the case, plug the controller back in and check that the 12V shows up when the controller is on. Connect the wires to the terminals on the SSR and test the system with something like a lamp to be sure that it works with a load.

BetaDave
 
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