Reusing yeast from high abv batches

[MHBT]

Question to all the serial pitchers and yeast experts, i brewed a 1080 beer and i wanna save the yeast even though it was in a decently high alcohol environment, is it ok to repitch it? Im sure the yeast was stressed a bit sitting in the alcoholic environment but im thinking of putting the cake in a lower abv wort say 1025-30, my thought was it would feed them but also nurse them back to health and kind of reset them, and maybe 2 rounds of 1025 wort it should be back to full health, really trying to save money

 

[lumpher]

I wouldn't reuse yeast from a 1.080.

 

[Alan Reginato]

I reuse from a 1.073 batch and it's still "working". But it is a saison yeast. Maybe a more neutral yeast could mutate and start to produce unwanted flavoured compounds.

And I didn't anything especial, just repitch as it was. In fact I left the slurry with some beer, that was 8%.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

What strain is in question? Typically you don't want to repitch yeast that have seen those conditions.

 

[odie]

A couple experiments...

https://brulosophy.com/2020/11/09/y...cake-from-a-high-og-beer-exbeeriment-results/
https://brulosophy.com/2018/05/28/f...sted-from-a-high-og-beer-exbeeriment-results/

 

[lumpher]

It does make a little difference what the wort and yeast is for. If it's for a "regular" ale or lager, such as Notty, US05, ESB yeast, or anything not funky like a saison, it could very easily produce off flavors and ruin the batch. Start light and low and work darker and stronger, in general. If I reuse yeast, I'll do a Porter, then a Robust, then Imperial, or a Pale Ale, then an IPA, etc. Saisons already have that funky off-flavor, so who can tell?

 

[MHBT]

It was 1056

 

[MHBT]

Normally i would just buy more yeast but times are hard

 

[lumpher]

I feel your pain. Been there. However, is it cheaper to buy another pack of yeast (go with dry yeast; there is so much diversity now and they are SO much better than when I started), or waste a batch of beer?. Cellar Science has good yeast, and is much cheaper. I've started using it for some types of beer. You can get 2-3 packs of dry yeast for the same price as 1 liquid yeast, and no starter needed usually, and it can be reused how i mentioned earlier. Get a pack of $3 yeast, use it for a 1.045-1.050 brew, then use that yeast cake for a 1.065 brew, then a 1.080 brew... Now you're at $1 per brew for yeast cost.

 

[MHBT]

I feel your pain. Been there. However, is it cheaper to buy another pack of yeast (go with dry yeast; there is so much diversity now and they are SO much better than when I started), or waste a batch of beer?. Cellar Science has good yeast, and is much cheaper. I've started using it for some types of beer. You can get 2-3 packs of dry yeast for the same price as 1 liquid yeast, and no starter needed usually, and it can be reused how i mentioned earlier. Get a pack of $3 yeast, use it for a 1.045-1.050 brew, then use that yeast cake for a 1.065 brew, then a 1.080 brew... Now you're at $1 per brew for yeast cost.

I really see a difference between us05 and 1056 idk if its just me but 1056 is alot better even though they say they are the same strain, but yes that sounds like a good idea stepping up gravities but i dont brew many types of beer my 1056 would only be for my stout

 

[marc1]

Next time you could try saving some yeast from your starter before you pitch it.

 

[MHBT]

Next time you could try saving some yeast from your starter before you pitch it.

I actually did, but wanna save it all if i can

 

[MHBT]

Makes me wanna buy a packs of what i use and just bank it, once things get better for me laminar flow hood and im gonna turn single packs into yeast rations might even start canning own wort instead of expensive dme

 

[marc1]

I actually did, but wanna save it all if i can

Wait... why can't you just make a starter with the yeast you saved from the last starter?

That would be way less work than trying to nurse the high gravity yeast back to health in a series of low gravity starters.

If you like yeast ranching you could probably streak a bunch of plates with the "bad" yeast, pick colonies, and try to find a good one to go back to, but that seems like more work than it's worth unless you really enjoy the process for its own sake, or are trying to save a strain that you don't have easy access to anymore.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Normally i would just buy more yeast but times are hard

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[MHBT]

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I know and kinda worrisome

 

[MHBT]

Wait... why can't you just make a starter with the yeast you saved from the last starter?

That would be way less work than trying to nurse the high gravity yeast back to health in a series of low gravity starters.

If you like yeast ranching you could probably streak a bunch of plates with the "bad" yeast, pick colonies, and try to find a good one to go back to, but that seems like more work than it's worth unless you really enjoy the process for its own sake, or are trying to save a strain that you don't have easy access to anymore.

Yeah thats what im gonna do, i was getting greedy and wanted to keep all the yeast but im just gonna let the 1080 yeast go

 

[jerrylotto]

It also depends on what the final gravity was of that batch. High degrees of alcohol kill yeast, there's nothing wrong with dead yeast as i can break down to food for live yeast, but you don't want to store it in high levels of alcohol. The less viable the cake, you get a lower active cell count.

 

[MHBT]

It also depends on what the final gravity was of that batch. High degrees of alcohol kill yeast, there's nothing wrong with dead yeast as i can break down to food for live yeast, but you don't want to store it in high levels of alcohol. The less viable the cake, you get a lower active cell count.

It got down surprisingly low 1012 just gonna chuck it dont wanna chance it

 

[jerrylotto]

If you have access to a lab you can rotor that the yeast cake down and pull off an 80% alcohol azeotrope until all the ethanol is gone at room temperature.

Ethanol boils at 78.4 °C, water boils at 100 °C, but the azeotrope boils at 78.2 °C, which is lower than either of its constituents. Indeed, 78.2 °C is the minimum temperature at which any ethanol/water solution can boil at atmospheric pressure. Under a vacuum you can get the boiling point down to below room temperature. Pulling a vacuum can be done with a simple vacuum aspirator connected to a running water faucet.

 

[MHBT]

If you have access to a lab you can rotor that the yeast cake down and pull off an 80% alcohol azeotrope until all the ethanol is gone at room temperature.

Im afraid im too stupid for that, deepest i can go with yeast is plates and slants, growing mushrooms taught me thats it any other lab methods way over my head

 

[IslandLizard]

im gonna turn single packs into yeast rations might even start canning own wort instead of expensive dme

That's probably the better way.
No need to can, you can freeze it, then reboil and rechill before use.

I recently did just that, a 5 gallon batch, condensed it, alas to the much higher 1.115 than originally intended. Then froze the high gravity wort in 48 oz plastic cottage cheese tubs. Each tub provides for three 1.037 starters now, instead of the intended 2. I make enough starters, so it's not an issue.

The other thing you can do, especially when brewing high gravity beers, is save (partial) 2nd and all of 3rd runnings, and make starter wort from those. A partigyle like that yields almost free starter wort, just with a little effort, and keen planning.

 

[MHBT]

That's probably the better way.
No need to can, you can freeze it, then reboil and rechill before use.

I recently did just that, a 5 gallon batch, condensed it, alas to the much higher 1.115 than originally intended. Then froze the high gravity wort in 48 oz plastic cottage cheese tubs. Each tub provides for three 1.037 starters now, instead of the intended 2. I make enough starters, so it's not an issue.

The other thing you can do, especially when brewing high gravity beers, is save (partial) 2nd and all of 3rd runnings, and make starter wort from those. A partigyle like that yields almost free starter wort, just with a little effort, and keen planning.

Frickn eh man thanks

 

[marc1]

Makes me wanna buy a packs of what i use and just bank it, once things get better for me laminar flow hood and im gonna turn single packs into yeast rations might even start canning own wort instead of expensive dme

Here's a nice laminar flow for you:
https://us.vwr.com/store/product/4830661/enviralab-sterility-modules-esm-envirco


Buy once, cry once, amirite?



I'm not sure you'd even need a home made version of one for serious ranching.

 

[mashpaddled]

I've brewed with yeast cakes coming out of higher ABV beers without a problem but admittedly I've never done it side by side with a fresh pitch and asked twenty drunks in my garage to tell me which one is better.

I don't think the yeast is unsalvageable just because it came out of a higher ABV beer. The yeast need to rebuild their nutrient reserves which will require stepping through a nutrient rich starter before pitching or maybe adding a lot of nutrient to the wort when pitching. At that point you have to ask what exactly are you saving by reusing the yeast?

Yeast is one of those things, like spent grain, we will always make more of than we can creatively repurpose in the brewhouse or kitchen. I am cost conscious but at some point there are cheaper and better alternatives than trying to force everything into a cost saving reuse. I build starters out of reserved slurry from yeast I buy and most of the time the yeast cake goes into my compost pit where it feeds nutrients into my garden. Same with my spent grain for the most part.

 

[bwible]

I’m following this in the article below where it says frozen stocks. It doesn’t take much. I got 25 of the vials for about $15 on amazon and the only other thing you need is a bottle of glycerine from the drug store. It tells you how to mix it up so you can freeze yeast and it says it should be good for a couple years. I’m doing it with one of the limited release strains I just got but in theory you could keep it going on and on. Make 10 vials from the bottom of your fermenter, freeze, thaw when ready. Each batch you would have enough to make more vials if you wanted to. You don’t need to go through all that with slants and plates.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/maintaining-a-healthy-yeast-bank-long-term.678997/

 

[bwible]

Here's a nice laminar flow for you:
https://us.vwr.com/store/product/4830661/enviralab-sterility-modules-esm-envirco


Buy once, cry once, amirite?



I'm not sure you'd even need a home made version of one for serious ranching.

Only $18,000? Hell I could buy a giant walk in cooler like they have at my beer distributor for that.

 

[MHBT]

Here's a nice laminar flow for you:
https://us.vwr.com/store/product/4830661/enviralab-sterility-modules-esm-envirco


Buy once, cry once, amirite?



I'm not sure you'd even need a home made version of one for serious ranching.

You can get a small LFH for around 400 bucks