Residual Sugars = 0

[delcosansgluten]

As the title suggests, is there any way to get the yeast to eat all of the sugar in the wort?

 

[day_trippr]

I'd start with a highly fermentable grain bill, apply an optimal mash temperature profile and duration, along with liberal application of glucoamylase during mash and then fermentation. That'd be my best guess how to get there...

Cheers!

 

[Agent]

You can probably read about Brut IPA, as those often went incredibly dry. But I believe @day_trippr is right about adding glucoamylase to the fermenter to get there.

 

[mac_1103]

I'd start with a highly fermentable grain bill, apply an optimal mash temperature profile and duration, along with liberal application of glucoamylase during mash and then fermentation. That'd be my best guess how to get there...

In my experience, a little bit of glucoamylase in the fermenter will take care of this all by itself. Every batch I've ever used it on has fermented down to a final gravity of less than 1 regardless of how I mashed. My question is: what is your goal in trying to ferment everything in the first place?

 

[delcosansgluten]

In my experience, a little bit of glucoamylase in the fermenter will take care of this all by itself. Every batch I've ever used it on has feremnted down to a final gravity of less than 1 regardless of how I mashed. My question is: what is your goal in trying to ferment everything in the first place?

I'm going to be doing an experimental beer next which adds in banana puree and maple syrup after primary fermentation and I want to remove as much sugar as possible.

 

[mac_1103]

I'm going to be doing an experimental beer next which adds in banana puree and maple syrup after primary fermentation and I want to remove as much sugar as possible.

What's the base beer recipe? Wheat? Hefe? Stout? Something else? FWIW, I've only ever added fruit to imperial stouts, and I absolutely wouldn't have wanted those to be bone dry.

 

[delcosansgluten]

What's the base beer recipe? Wheat? Hefe? Stout? Something else? FWIW, I've only ever added fruit to imperial stouts, and I absolutely wouldn't have wanted those to be bone dry.

Here is the thread I created for the upcoming brew. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/tired-hands-sir-dudley-banana-french-toast-clone.701648/

 

[mac_1103]

So why do you think you need to ferment this dry? I'm obviously missing something...

 

[Agent]

I could see eliminating dextrins so that you can add in enough maple syrup to get flavor without being too sweet.

That said, I don't know how you'd stop the gluco from also chewing up your maple sugar as well.

 

[delcosansgluten]

So why do you think you need to ferment this dry? I'm obviously missing something...

i am concerned that residual grain sugars + sugar from bananas & maple syrup will make it too sweet.

 

[mac_1103]

I could see eliminating dextrins so that you can add in enough maple syrup to get flavor without being too sweet.

i am concerned that residual grain sugars + sugar from bananas & maple syrup will make it too sweet.

Unless you are planning to filter or pasteurize the beer before you add the bananas and syrup (or maybe cold crash and age for a long time), those sugars are going to ferment (completely) too.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Unless you are planning to filter or pasteurize the beer before you add the bananas and syrup (or maybe cold crash and age for a long time), those sugars are going to ferment (completely) too.

how do you think Tired Hands pulled this off then?

 

[day_trippr]

Yup. Glucoamylase denaturing temperature is well above any reasonable fermentation. It'll just keep on keeping on afaik...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

FWIW, the first time I did a fruit addition to an imperial stout, the beer finished way too dry and had no fruit flavor at all. I added maltodextrin and lactose to at least try to fix the body, and the fruit and spice flavors magically reappeared.

 

[mac_1103]

how do you think Tired Hands pulled this off then?

Pulled off what? It sounds like they just brewed a dark mild and added fruit and syrup. Is this beer available for sale anywhere other than their brewery?

edit - Can't find it on their website; seems like maybe it was a one off?

 

[delcosansgluten]

Pulled off what? It sounds like they just brewed a dark mild and added fruit and syrup. Is this beer available for sale anywhere other than their brewery?

edit - Can't find it on their website; seems like maybe it was a one off?

to my knowledge it was only available via cask in their brewery. i was diagnosed with Celiac after having tried this beer, so making my own version is the only way ill have it again.

 

[mac_1103]

i was diagnosed with Celiac after having tried this beer, so making my own version is the only way ill have it again

Yeah, noticed you brew gluten-free from your other threads. I was wondering if it might be possible to get your hands on a bottle to check the final gravity. Alas, it seems that is not to be.

 

[40yr@HB]

Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast - Champagne Yeast

 

[mashdar]

Maple syrup will ferment completely no matter what you do to it. The only hope is to have residual sweetness from your malt.

I would think banana would be very starchy, but I'd be scared to mash+boil it for fear of losing the magic. Probably also needs some residual sweetness from malt or it will taste strange.

 

[day_trippr]

Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast - Champagne Yeast

As a yeast meant to ferment grapes (fructose and glucose) or bottle condition (glucose again) I wouldn't think it would be the optimal strain for beer wort with its additional maltose and maltotriose. Great at monosaccharides but that's all...

Cheers!

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Saisonstein by omega will get you down to almost nothing

My latest saison was 1.058 OG and finished at 1.002

Also, what's the reasoning / vision for the particular beer you are trying for yeast to consume sugars down to nothing?

Saison's finish dry but the yeast produces glycerol so it still has a perception of fullness

If you decide to overly dry out a beer with other strains the final product could taste thin.

Could you describe the finished beer you are looking to acheive and then we could help get you there?

 

[day_trippr]

STA1 active, it's a dextrin eating beastie

https://omegayeast.com/yeast/belgian-ales/saisonstein

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

STA1 active, it's a dextrin eating beastie

https://omegayeast.com/yeast/belgian-ales/saisonstein

Its a fantastic yeast btw! Basically tastes like dupont, but ferments down easily even at slightly lower temps.

 

[HM-2]

As the title suggests, is there any way to get the yeast to eat all of the sugar in the wort?

Amyloglucosidase is your friend here.

For a 19L batch, I use about 0.3ml at 60°C and rest/recirculate for 30 minutes after completing the mash and before mash out. I also dose ~0.3ml in the fermenter juuuuust in case. I fermented my recent Brut IPA with WHC LAX- so a neutral, ~75% attenuation yeast under normal circumstances.

It hit ~1.001 from a 1.062 OG for an apparent attenuation of 98%.

 

[mac_1103]

Amyloglucosidase

...is the same enzyme as the previously mentioned glucoamylase, just in case anyone might be unsure.

I would think banana would be very starchy

Bananas are about 23% carbohydrate (and 75% water). The carbs in green bananas are 80% starch. The carbs in fully ripe bananas are about 99% simple sugars. Checked nutrition facts on a couple of commercial banana purees, and sugar content matched total carb content. So unless you puree your own green bananas, it's all going to ferment.

 

[jdauria]

Just thinking here, but in meads and ciders, potassium sorbate is added to prevent the yeast from eating anymore sugar, especially if you are adding fruits. Could that be added to beer first to stop the yeast?

 

[mac_1103]

potassium sorbet

Sounds delicious.

 

[jdauria]

Sounds delicious.

LOL! Have not had my coffee yet!

 

[mac_1103]

Should have just blamed autocorrect.