Refilling a 5 pound CO2 tank

[MaxStout]

If you decide to just swap tanks at the supplier, you'll likely get one with a newer test date on it.

 

[beren]

I was just checking around, Airgas is the only local place I can find. They charged me, I think, about 60 bucks for a 5lb switch out. Seems a bit steep, but it is the only game in town I think. Gonna do a bit more looking though.

Yeah that’s super expensive. There’s no welding shops or Fire extinguisher places? I just double checked. The local welding shop is $19 for 5 pounds and $39 for 20 pounds. No hazmat fees or any other hidden things.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Yeah that’s super expensive. There’s no welding shops or Fire extinguisher places? I just double checked. The local welding shop is $19 for 5 pounds and $39 for 20 pounds. No hazmat fees or any other hidden things.

Check these guys; supposed to be up your way. I just visited them and had a great experience.

https://www.robertsoxygen.com/locations

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Check these guys; supposed to be up your way. I just visited them and had a great experience.

https://www.robertsoxygen.com/locations

They swapped out an empty 30 year old 10lb steel tank that expired in 2018 that I got free for a brand new, filled 20# aluminum tank, and swapped out a 5# nitrogen tank for $48.15. That was $15 for 5# of nitrogen, and $29 for 20# of CO₂ and tax.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was just checking around, Airgas is the only local place I can find. They charged me, I think, about 60 bucks for a 5lb switch out. Seems a bit steep, but it is the only game in town I think. Gonna do a bit more looking though.

I am going to check with my local Morebeer. It is about a 30 minute drive, but if it saves me a few bucks why not.

Call around first to get pricing, surcharges, etc.
I found swapping 20# tanks to be most economical, as long as you keep an eye on possible leaks. That's where the scale comes in, @bracconiere style.

 

[beren]

They swapped out an empty 30 year old 10lb steel tank that expired in 2018 that I got free for a brand new, filled 20# aluminum tank, and swapped out a 5# nitrogen tank for $48.15. That was $15 for 5# of nitrogen, and $29 for 20# of CO₂ and tax.

Now I’m jealous. Are the tanks branded around the collar? There’s one about 40 miles away from me but I occasionally I am down in that area. I wonder if they would swap a larger nitrogen tank for mine. I wouldn’t mind having a 40 ft.³

 

[whoaru99]

Is there actually 5# of Nitrogen in a 5# cylinder (20cf cyl?), or is it more like 1.5lb actual gas?

 

[beren]

Is there actually 5# of Nitrogen in a 5# cylinder (20cf cyl?), or is it more like 1.5lb actual gas?

It’s not liquid like co2, so it’s measured in Cubic feet. A 5 pound CO2 tank holds 20 ft.³ of nitrogen or beer gas.

https://keengas.com/gases/nitrogen/

 

[mac_1103]

My LHBS swaps tanks - $24/5#; $29/10#; $38/#20. They use the local Roberts Oxygen. Might be a little cheaper to go straight to the source, but bigger tanks are definitely more economical either way.

 

[whoaru99]

It’s not liquid like co2, so it’s measured in Cubic feet. A 5 pound CO2 tank holds 20 ft.³ of nitrogen or beer gas.

https://keengas.com/gases/nitrogen/

Yes, I understand in the case of N it's gas. That's why I'm asking. 5# in gas form would be a lot of gas/volume.

The underlying point is in a earlier post someone said they paid $15 for 5# N and $29 for 20# CO2. They got 20# CO2 but they really didn't get 5# N, they got 20cf N, which may weigh something like 1.5lb, yes?

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Is there actually 5# of Nitrogen in a 5# cylinder (20cf cyl?), or is it more like 1.5lb actual gas?

Alas, you caught me; I misspoke.

 

[whoaru99]

Alas, you caught me; I misspoke.

It's not really about that, just being sure I have full understanding and if it clarifies for anyone else along the way.

 

[balrog]

I will never run out of gas after the shops have closed for a long weekend again!

Oh, my.

Yes.

Yes, you will.

 

[khannon]

The local grow store here in MA started doing 5# swaps(aluminum only, they will send steel ones for refill) for $11/tank. They also swap 20's for $25. Cheaper and closer than airgas or other "local" gas places.

 

[balrog]

The local grow store here in MA started doing 5# swaps(aluminum only, they will send steel ones for refill) for $11/tank. They also swap 20's for $25. Cheaper and closer than airgas or other "local" gas places.

Oh, do tell, says the guy from only a wee bit South of Amherst, which store might that be?

 

[khannon]

Oh, do tell, says the guy from only a wee bit South of Amherst, which store might that be?

Here we Grow in Hadley. They are great about it...
Also, Why are you not at any of our Monthly SPARGE club meetings? SPARGE Homebrew Club we meet anywhere from Springfield to Northampton.. Not sure where the next one is, it's probably on the facebook side of things where I don't go.

 

[balrog]

Here we Grow in Hadley. They are great about it...
Also, Why are you not at any of our Monthly SPARGE club meetings? SPARGE Homebrew Club we meet anywhere from Springfield to Northampton.. Not sure where the next one is, it's probably on the facebook side of things where I don't go.

I'm a steel tank guy, if only from historical "what-had-happened-was"-ness.
And that's 45-50 min drive for me, which I'll do if I'm going to Tower Theater for instance.

 

[beren]

That’s an awesome idea! A local hydroponics shop does a 20 pound swap for $31

 

[beren]

I'm a steel tank guy, if only from historical "what-had-happened-was"-ness.
And that's 45-50 min drive for me, which I'll do if I'm going to Tower Theater for instance.

But steel rusts. Esp inside the tank. Aluminum is just a strong, it’s slightly thicker and weighs less and can’t even manage nitrogen pressures

 

[day_trippr]

If a steel tank is filled with beverage grade CO2, could it rust?

Cheers!

 

[beren]

If a steel tank is filled with beverage grade CO2, could it rust?

Cheers!

If it can’t, then we wouldn’t get it inspected for rust

 

[Geezer-Glide]

Here is my lash-up for refilling cylinders. In use the stand in the photo sits in a laundry sink so it can’t fall and is kinda/sorta shielded. I bleed the 20# tank into a 5# or 10# tank sometimes I record the weight transferred but usually it doesn’t mater to me. When the 10# tank is empty I just refill it. At the vendor’s where I buy my CO2 it is much less expensive to buy 20# than two 10# tanks. Then tank with the internal dip tube doesn’t work for me as it is a strictly exchange tanks operation. Yesterday 20# cost me $22.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

As for CO2 cylinders rusting…not as long as you keep Oxygen out you won’t have much Iron Oxide (rust).

 

[szap]

I have been refilling 5 lb tanks from a twenty lb tank for several years now. I have a siphon in the 20 lb tank so I don't have to flip it upside down but do invert the 5 lb tank when filling. I use a simple jumper, high pressure mesh hose with a connector on each end. I have watched people at the local gas supply place refill 5 lb tanks from a larger tank and I have never seen them use a scale. I asked about it and they said there is almost zero chance of getting 5 lbs in the small tank much less enough to damage the it. The good one tip is the one of getting the 5 lb tank very cold. Transferring a small amount of gas into it and then purging it gives the best result. But at a couple dollars a pound, I don't want to waste the gas. A decent substitute is to put the 5 lb tank into the freezer overnight and then filling it immediately after taking it out. The biggest tip is to proceed carefully. Make absolutely sure you have closed both tank valves before removing the hose. Then loosen one side just enough to bleed off the gas in the hose and then remove it. Removing the hose with a valve open creates a really dangerous situation.

 

[beren]

I have been refilling 5 lb tanks from a twenty lb tank for several years now. I have a siphon in the 20 lb tank so I don't have to flip it upside down but do invert the 5 lb tank when filling. I use a simple jumper, high pressure mesh hose with a connector on each end. I have watched people at the local gas supply place refill 5 lb tanks from a larger tank and I have never seen them use a scale. I asked about it and they said there is almost zero chance of getting 5 lbs in the small tank much less enough to damage the it. The good one tip is the one of getting the 5 lb tank very cold. Transferring a small amount of gas into it and then purging it gives the best result. But at a couple dollars a pound, I don't want to waste the gas. A decent substitute is to put the 5 lb tank into the freezer overnight and then filling it immediately after taking it out. The biggest tip is to proceed carefully. Make absolutely sure you have closed both tank valves before removing the hose. Then loosen one side just enough to bleed off the gas in the hose and then remove it. Removing the hose with a valve open creates a really dangerous situation.

The guys that do it right have a pump to make sure you get the 5lbs you pay for. Reminds me of the gas stations selling 20lb fills and only pitting 16-17 in it saying they need to leave room for expansion.

 

[sibelman]

Once I expand into a multi keg setup then we will see.

If you make/drink more beer, you'll use more CO2. Otherwise, not so much.

 

[szap]

The guys that do it right have a pump to make sure you get the 5lbs you pay for. Reminds me of the gas stations selling 20lb fills and only pitting 16-17 in it saying they need to leave room for expansion.

Totally agree. This business does fill tanks with a pump but they have to send them to their HQ so the tank is gone for at least a week. In a homebrew emergency they will fill a 5 lb tank as much as is possible from a larger tank at the local business. My reference to them in my post was about not using a scale and I should have clarified that this is not the way they did all tank refills

 

[whoaru99]

The guys that do it right have a pump to make sure you get the 5lbs you pay for. Reminds me of the gas stations selling 20lb fills and only pitting 16-17 in it saying they need to leave room for expansion.

Every place I've had a 20 filled it was scaled. But, yeah, those pre-filled convenience exchanges like Blue Rhino typically are 15lb (but it does say that on the sign). Usually comes at a convenience premium price too.

When one can find a lower cost outlet for those it's not too terrible a way to get a recertified tank and some gas too.