Recipe for a Dry Irish Stout?

[Homercidal]

Ok, I need to brew a small batch of Dry Irish Stout. I'm not a big fan of the style, personally, but it's for a club competition. I would normally grab my "Brewing Classic Styles" book and research the specs and get some pointers, but I can't find my copy!

I know it's got to have some roasted barley, and it's go to be well attenuated. I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to make it a bit more palatable to me. I'm not a fan of the dryness along with the roast. I prefer a bit more sweet with my stouts.

Of course that would ruin a dry stout in a competition, but I'm grabbing at straws here. I had a Guinness this weekend to refresh my memory on the style and I don't need 2 gallons of this stuff going to waste after the competition.

 

[solbes]

I made one a couple of years ago that I liked. Half of the basemalt was 2row, the other half was Maris Otter. 1.5 lbs of flaked barley and 1 lb of Roasted Barley. They usually have very simple grain bills. I used Cluster for hops, mostly bittering only.

A few things to consider. One is that the roasted character softens up a little if you let it sit at room temp for 6 weeks or so. If you like yours sweeter but dry for the competition, why don't you bottle up a sixer as is in the bottling bucket, and then add lactose for the remainder of the batch for yourself? And lastly Guiness adds a bit of soured mash to their grist. I had assumed you could get the same character by adding a few mL of 88% lactic acid. While it worked okay, I did not get the same thing as a Guiness.

For some reason, about 2/3 -3/4 of the Guiness I drink out of a tap here is mediocre at best. Every once in awhile I will find a bar that has a good keg and its like striking gold. Can't get enough of it when I find it.

 

[flars]

I've been brewing Northern Brewers dry Irish stout. Not overly dry and not boozy. Takes 4 to 6 weeks to be really good. Definitely not a Guinness, more flavor and body. The recipe is on NBs' site.

 

[Homercidal]

I have until the second tuesday of Feb. before I have to serve. I'd like to brew tomorrow evening just to be sure I have time to carb. I *really* wanted to carb in the bottle, but may be "Forced" to carb in the keg if the fermentation takes too long. I have 4 weeks to go, so given 1 week to ferment, and 3 weeks to carb (could cut that shorter with this beer) not a lot of brightening time.

So, not enough time to sour a beer I think. I'm not necessarily interested in copying Guinness to a T, but if the style parameters are fulfilled, then I'm happy.

How would chocolate go with this beer? I've brewed some chocolate stouts, and I like them fine, but they have been a bit sweeter. I'm not sure if chocolate would give a dry stout too much chalkiness. Pretty much anything will push it into the "Other" category and mess with the score.

I suppose I can always give bottles away if it turns out good.

 

[giraffe]

Id keep it simple if you only got 4 weeks. 1.040-1.045, MO as a base malt, 10% roast barley, 10-20% flaked barley or wheat, You could swap out a few % of the roast barley for chocolate malt if you prefer beamish over guiness. If you like a sweeter beer pick a fruitier english yeast (1469?), and mash a tad higher.

 

[estricklin]

Jamil's recipe is

2 lbs of flaked barley
1 lb roasted barley
7 lbs pale ale malt
2 oz kent goldings for 60 min

I used to brew this style a lot, and like you I prefer some sweetness in it. Try using some oats maybe? I always use some acid malt with mine too or add some extra lactic. Strong hop bitterness helps with the dryness I think.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't have MO at this time. I have 2-Row Pale.

I could add oats for just a hint of sweetness and help smooth it out a bit. No flaked barley.

Boy there isn't much grain in this 2.5 gallon recipe!

 

[JKaranka]

You can try 9lb 2row and 1lb roast barley.

 

[giraffe]

In a stout 2 row is fine, most of the flavor is from roast barley. If its being judged on style, any detectable level of oats will ding it. Id use flaked wheat if you got it.

 

[Yooper]

Shoot for a mash pH of 5.2, and you'll have a good dry stout (using the above recipe).

It probably won't be to your taste, as there is really no sweetness behind it, but you could try mashing a bit higher to have some body and a perception of some residual sweetness.

What yeast do you have? I like WLP004 for this. I really would try to get some MO and not use US two-row, if you want to have something that is most like a traditional dry stout as well as something you want to drink yourself afterwards!

 

[Yooper]

I don't have MO at this time. I have 2-Row Pale.

I could add oats for just a hint of sweetness and help smooth it out a bit. No flaked barley.

Boy there isn't much grain in this 2.5 gallon recipe!

Oh, I just saw this post. In my opinion, the flaked barley is an absolute requirement. You can't get the same body and head and mouthfeel with oats, although oats can give some creaminess.

 

[norrisk66]

Do you know the chemistry of the water you will be using?

I would also focus on that and adjust accordingly to the style.

 

[Homercidal]

Oh, I just saw this post. In my opinion, the flaked barley is an absolute requirement. You can't get the same body and head and mouthfeel with oats, although oats can give some creaminess.

Unfortunately I did not see that flaked barley was kind of a requirement until after I got my ingredients. Too late to change it now. I might try some dextrine to go with it, but I haven't spent much time researching it to know what would make a good substitute. If I am LUCKY, I may be able to talk the brewmaster at Crankers into stealing me a bit of flaked barley at tonight's club meeting. If he has it. They don't offer a dry stout.

Do you know the chemistry of the water you will be using?

I would also focus on that and adjust accordingly to the style.

Water is not a problem. I can go with my house water and treat with campden tabs. I will probably do up a Bru'nwater spreadsheet before brewing. Stouts have always done pretty good for me before I started doing water calculations.

 

[Homercidal]

Ok, had our monthly meeting last night and I found out the competition isn't until MARCH, so I have time to order that flaked barley and brew it right.

 

[solbes]

I think that'll be better for your competition.

 

[Bob]

Classic Dry Irish Stout is dead simple:

Grain bill:
70% 2-row
20% flaked barley
10% roasted barley

Seek an OG of 1.040 to 1.045. The beer must finish dry. Avoid higher mash temperatures.

Keeping in mind that a large proportion of the bitterness of DIS is from the roasted barley, bitter to 35-40 IBU. Flavor/aroma hops are inappropriate.

Ferment with a very attenuative yeast. Avoid "Irish Ale" yeasts like the plague, because they are poor attenuators. I always liked Nottingham for DIS.

Guinness blend a small proportion of sour beer to their stout to provide the signature twang. I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. You could fiddle about with lactic acid. That's up to you.

Using an English floor-malted pale malt will give a different character, but the difference will be so slight that in my opinion it would be undetectable in a blind tasting. That much roasted barley so overwhelms the difference between MO and 2-row that it's just not worth worrying about.

I know you don't care for the style, but there's very little wiggle room. Deviate much from the above and you won't have a good competition.

Good luck!

 

[giraffe]

There is some wiggle room. Beamish and Murphys are both dry irish stouts and use different grain bills, but everyone makes a guinness clone. Beamish uses flaked wheat instead of barley and adds 5% chocolate malt for instance. Murphys uses a bit of dark crystal.

 

[1971hemicuda]

Classic Dry Irish Stout is dead simple:

Grain bill:
70% 2-row
20% flaked barley
10% roasted barley

Seek an OG of 1.040 to 1.045. The beer must finish dry. Avoid higher mash temperatures.

Keeping in mind that a large proportion of the bitterness of DIS is from the roasted barley, bitter to 35-40 IBU. Flavor/aroma hops are inappropriate.

Ferment with a very attenuative yeast. Avoid "Irish Ale" yeasts like the plague, because they are poor attenuators. I always liked Nottingham for DIS.

Don't fix what ain't broke! This is a very classic, easy to brew style. Follow these guidelines and your beer will be great. Last time I did mine this is exactly what i followed and it was delicious in about 6 weeks. you CAN use some chocolate, you CAN swap around the flaked/base malt percentages, but if you don't care for the style, its only for competition, then stick with those....people will think you've been brewing it for years! Cheers!

 

[bandt9299]

My 2 cents is stick to the basic dry stout clone recipe and mash low, if you don't it will never attenuate enough. I also like to use WLP 007 Dry English ale yeast I think it makes a superior dry stout. I make 10 gallons once a month and am drinking it on nitro at 14 days, this beer does not need a lot of time, a 10 day ferment is all I do then keg on nitro. Good luck.

 

[JKaranka]

What good is it to stick to the same recipe and beer prototype as the other twenty guys in the competition? The whole Irish dry stout category is bollocks anyway. Just someone thinking that one of the few remaining stouts (when it was not stout anymore) deserved some sort of special treatment. Absolute bollocks and not stout to start with. Go with just pale and black and bitter-hop the rafters out of it...

 

[Homercidal]

I got flaked wheat already! I kind of wanted to brew on Sunday, but don't have any flaked Barley and the cheapskate in me doesn't want to order and pay shipping for a single bag of it. I don't really need anything else right now.

I might sub the wheat in instead of barley and see what else I can add that won't detract too much from the style. I actually think the soured stout addition is a great idea. I just happen to have an infected stout on tap right now. I bet it will take off real quick!

I wonder if oaking would add anything interesting. I could split the batch and oak some in a 1 gallon jug and find out.

 

[vagabondat02]

I seem to remember a thread about souring a dry irish to get something Guinness-like. If I remember correctly, the consensus was: Sour a pint or two with lacto for a few days to a week, (like making a Berlinner starter) and add it to the boil to kill the bugs. I love dry irish, but that tiny bit of lacto is the ONLY thing interesting about a Guinness to me. I'm pouring one from a cask, through an engine, that I'm really digging.
5# 2-row
2# flaked barley
12oz roasted
4oz chocolate
1/2oz magnum @60min
Notty
Two weeks in the bucket, two in the cask to carb, tapped it last week and it's delightful. Can't wait for this weekend, Bangers and Mash with homemade sausages!

 

[giraffe]

You dont want an infected stout, as you can probably tell now, that isnt pleasant. What you want is the ever so small touch of acid. If you want to be traditional take some (a pint or two)of the infected stout, allow to ripen at room temp for a day or two. then boil to pastuerize and add to the boil. Personally,if i bothered, id just use a touch of lactic acid to drop the final beer ph by .02. Less is more.

You dont have time to oak it, and really, why?

This is supposed to be a refreshing style that you can throw back 6 pints without it getting tedious. Keep it simple. You options to add the the basic malt bill without it being out of style for the comp, and dinged points:

Swap the flaked barley for wheat
Adjust the flaked amount in the range from 10-30%
Add 1-5% chocolate or other roasted or toasted charecter malt (brown, special roast, chocolate, etc).
add 1-3% dark crystal of some type.
Add a pint of pasteurized soured beer, or a little lactic acid, to make it the tiniest bit sour.
Use a different english yeast strain. A highly attenuative one is safe, but its only a 1.040 beer, if you mash low-ish, any can work.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, I strongly recommend grinding the roasted barley to almost a powder, and add it to the mash right before mash out or just the last 5-10 minutes. Less harshness, incredible flavor increase versus including then in the whole mash as normal. I use a burr coffee grinder to do this, and stole it from a Jamil trick but it makes a big difference.

 

[JKaranka]

That's cool. It's what some Scottish breweries used to do but adding the powder to the boil.

 

[Homercidal]

I'd oak it because to me a regular dry Irish stout is so bland. Might add something. it doesn't take long to add some oak flavor and as noted, my timeframe jumped out another month, so I do have time.

I guess I am unsure what the difference between an "infected" beer and beer that is left out for 4 days to... get infected. Seems like kind of the same thing.

 

[JKaranka]

Dry hop it with one ounce of Bullion or do half flaked barley half flaked wheat. It sounds like some judges will shoot you for not tasting like nitro keg anyway.

 

[Homercidal]

Dry hop it with one ounce of Bullion or do half flaked barley half flaked wheat. It sounds like some judges will shoot you for not tasting like nitro keg anyway.

LOL! Yeah, that's the downside for me. I dont' have nitro. I'd much prefer it in a dry stout, but I normally dont' prefer it in almost anything else.

It's a club competition, so while we are all using BJCO scoresheets, some of us aren't actual judges, or have any real experience. Plus since we are all bottling, nobody else will have nitrogen either.

Brewed a Saison today. Will do teh stout a bit later as I want to do a bit more reading and get some flaked barley if possible.

 

[giraffe]

I guess I am unsure what the difference between an "infected" beer and beer that is left out for 4 days to... get infected. Seems like kind of the same thing.

One you are letting a small part (a pint or 2, or 1/40th)sour, and then boiling it, to kill all the bacteria, and adding it to the main 5 gallons now that its sterile, giving a slight lactic tang, versus letting 100% of it sour.

 

[atom]

getting ready to brew a DIS... question about hops... most recipes call for EKG (or similar) @ 60, since hop flavor/aroma is not really what the DIS is about, could i sub some magnum to hit my ibu target?

 

[JKaranka]

I'd gravitate naturally to Bullion, Northdown, Brewers' Gold or Challenger but I can see Magnum working just fine. I do add a 20m addition to any porter or stout, though.

 

[Homercidal]

One you are letting a small part (a pint or 2, or 1/40th)sour, and then boiling it, to kill all the bacteria, and adding it to the main 5 gallons now that its sterile, giving a slight lactic tang, versus letting 100% of it sour.

Ah, I see now. You were mistakenly thinking I was goign to let the whole batch sour, but I was only going to sour a portion of already infected stout in my kegerator and adding it to the boil when I make a Dry Stout. I certainly wasn't planning on making more infected beer! I thought using an already infected beer woudl speed up the souring process.

 

[Homercidal]

I've got both magnum and northern brewer for hops, along with Citra and cascade and hersbrucker (probably not enough) and simcoe.

I'll probably choose between magnum and NB at this point. I have some Saaz too I think. Probably save that for a pilsner.

 

[giraffe]

Ah, I see now. You were mistakenly thinking I was goign to let the whole batch sour, but I was only going to sour a portion of already infected stout in my kegerator and adding it to the boil when I make a Dry Stout. I certainly wasn't planning on making more infected beer! I thought using an already infected beer woudl speed up the souring process.

Ah, that makes much more sense. That will work fine.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I've used magnum a few times for dry stouts around 40 IBU and it's super clean. The NB might give a smidge more hop flavor from a 60m addition.

 

[Homercidal]

Well I'm putting the recipe in Beersmith and the color is not right. Turns out BS has Roast Barley set at 300SRM and what I got is 500SRM. I reset it in BS and it's close to the recommended 10% of Grist bill for the right color.

I forgot to set some stout aside to sour, so I guess I have to go without. I don't have any lactic acid, but I do have some sauerkraut...

 

[Homercidal]

Brew is almost done. It went well. I decided to brew a half batch, or about 3 gallons. I would have needed to use less than a full packet of Magnum or NB hops. so I chose to use Saaz and Hersbrucker and the two full packets of those were just right for the IBUs, so no opened packets and I get to use hops I normally don't use.

I decided to take my time and after an hour or two of WoW I started my recipe. I could NOT get 10% roasted barley to come anywhere close to the SRM of a good stout. Then I found that Beersmith had roasted barley set at 300SRM and it's actually 500SRM. After setting it to 500 it came out right, but I added about 12% so I could be sure of getting a solid roasty flavor.

I also made a large pan of Shepherd's Pie for dinner during the brew. Normally I eschew cooking or doing anything involved while brewing because I tend to lose focus on the brew that way. However I can safely say that both things are well on their way.

One thing that gave me confidence: this morning as I rolled out of bed the corner of my pillowcase rubbed across my pupil, causing a sore and watery eye for a while. I find things tend to happen in a general balancedness. With my day starting out thusly, I felt assured that the brewing would be a positive accomplishment.

With my chiller recirculating boiling wort to sanitize, I head back once more to start the chill (turning off the stove, this time to enhance the chill time!) and turn the oven down to warm so I can celebrate the day with a comforting meal and a homemade Bourbon Stout!

Slainte!