Recipe Critique - Rye Cream Ale [AG]

[rhawnk]

Greetings,

Made a last minute decision to brew something different this weekend for fathers day. Recently had Trillium's sprang (Kolsch) and really like the flavor profile. But with current New England weather, i dont think ill be able to sustain the temps for a kolsch. So i figured i'd try to modify a cream ale to get something similar. What does everyone think, any input would be greatly appreciated?

Type: All Grain
Style: Cream Ale (modified)
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallon, hopefully



ESTIMATED STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.046
Final Gravity: 1.010?
ABV: 4.7
IBU: 20.2
SRM: 5.7

FERMENTABLES:
15 lbs Pilsner (2 Row)
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs Barley, Flaked
1 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose)


HOPS:
0.75 oz Golding, U.S. [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min

YEAST:
Not really sure yet, maybe WLP060 since i have it on hand.

My goal was to get a crisp lawnmower, but maintain some of that rye spice and fruity/winey finish i got from sprang.

Thanks

 

[TheMadKing]

Cream ale usually has corn in it, so I would suggest subbing out the table sugar for some cereal mashed cornmeal to reach the same gravity.

Otherwise that looks like a pretty hoppy lawnmower beer that I'd love!

 

[rhawnk]

Thanks, wasn't really happy with that addition as well, cornmeal mash sounds like a good idea.

I've never really done it before, do i make it before the main mash and add everything together, or do i mash both at the same time and just add the cornmeal when it's ready?

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks, wasn't really happy with that addition as well, cornmeal mash sounds like a good idea.

I've never really done it before, do i make it before the main mash and add everything together, or do i mash both at the same time and just add the cornmeal when it's ready?

You just take the corn and a handful of crushed pilsner malt and heat it to about 150F in a couple gallons of water and hold it there for 10 minutes or so, stirring frequently, then bring it to a boil and boil it for 20-30 minutes.

Add this soup to the rest of the grain after you dough in and hit temp, and mash as usual for 60 minutes. Just make sure you account for the temperature of the cereal mash in your strike water. The easiest way to do that, is to cool it to your desired mash temp before you dump it in. Alternatively you can strike a few degrees lower and dump it in boiling and stir like crazy (like a decoction mash)

 

[z-bob]

I think that's going to be a lot stronger than 1.046

I've only done a cereal mash once. (tried adding wheat flour or masa harina directly to the mash before and got poor conversion both times) I cooked a pound and a half of rice in a gallon of water; the rice absorbed all the water and turned into liquid concrete. So I threw in a handful of crushed malt when it cooled down to 140 degrees or so, and the malt dissolved everything down to a thin manageable gruel.

The way you're supposed to do a cereal mash is add the cereal to warm water, along with a little bit of pale malt. Heat it to 150 degrees and hold it there for 15 minutes (converting any free starch before it turns to concrete) Then you bring it to a boil to cook the rest of the grain. All this is before the main mash.

 

[TheMadKing]

I think that's going to be a lot stronger than 1.046

Good catch! I read right past that. Beersmith puts your OG at about 1.090 with 15lbs of pilsner. You're going to want to cut that to about 7lbs or so.

EDIT: played with the amounts in beersmith and here is my suggested revised recipe

6lbs pilsner
1 lb Rye
0.5 lbs flaked barley
1 lb grits

 

[z-bob]

It looks like a 10 gallon recipe.

 

[rhawnk]

OH!!! Yea, very good catch, i copied the 'measured og' from beersmith, not the 'EST og'. Thats a big difference

tweaking a bit to even things out gives me this:
1 lbs Rice Hulls
7 lbs Pilsner
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs Barley, Flaked
1 lbs Corn, Flaked (grits)
0.75 oz Golding, U.S. [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min

OG: 1.054
IBU: 23
ABV: 5%

 

[rhawnk]

Welp, can't get Nelson Sauvin anywhere (at least not by this weekend). So going to sub in Hallertau Blanc to try to maintain that white wine aroma/taste.

1 lbs Rice Hulls
7 lbs Pilsner
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs Barley, Flaked
1 lbs Corn, Flaked (grits)
0.75 oz Sterling [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.50 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min

also picked up a handful of 6-row for aiding in the cereal mash.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

With the use of different hops, you essentially have the Cream of 3 Crops recipe here.. I use 6/1/1.. 6 barley and 1 each of either flaked corn or grits, flaked oatmeal, rice or rye.. I've done many variations of it and have enjoyed em all

 

[rhawnk]

Well, its a done deal.

Final recipe:
1 lbs Rice Hulls
7 lbs Pilsner
1.5 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs Barley, Flaked
1 lbs grits (supermarket brand - Market Basket - yellow)
1 oz Sterling [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min (didnt want to waste half
1 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min

Yeast:
WLP060 (Made starter night before, 2 cups water, 1 cup pils dme)

Process:
Batch Sparge (draining tun)
3.5 gallons at 156.0 F
Batch 5.5 gallons at 168.0 F

Cereal Mash:
1. Add 1lb of cornmeal and 6-row, then pour in enough water to make it smooth and soupy. If there are lumps, add more water
2. Bring to 122deg, and held for 15 min (kinda, my stove sucks and managing temps)
3. Bring to 149 and old for 15 min (again, kinda. Definitely went a little over with both rests)
4. Add to the main mash
a. Cereal cooled to be inline with main mash (added slowly)
b. Cereal was in main mash for ~30 minutes

Fermeted:
9 days in rubbermaid cooler with frozen water bottles during day
maintained mid 60s

OG: 1.047
FG: 1.012

Kegged eod day 9, purged air and put in keezer

Initial taste before kegging was awesome. good malty backbone, and definitely gave that white wine taste i was looking for. Slight undertones of citrus, and a little melon (i think). I was drinking a session ipa while kegging .

May go light on carbonation as to not affect hop taste too much.

 

[rhawnk]

Been away the last few weekends, so finally got around to tasting it.

I purged the CO2 a bit, as i may have overcarbed it a little bit. That head stuck around for a few minutes while I took the pic. Was all but gone by the second swig.

Smell is strong of white wine, not overpowering but def the dominant aroma. I also got a little malt and a bready/yeasty aroma.

Taste maintained that white wine flavor to match aroma, again not overpowering at all, just enough to power through all other flavors. There is a tiny citrus kick, and even less tropical undernote. I can't identify any specific tropical flavors, but its definitely there. Aftertaste brought a little bitter and piney flavor.

Its fairly dry, which made me want to just crush it, but I paced myself.

All in all, very happy with the beer. Will def brew it again. Thanks to everyone that helped.