Mixed-Fermentation Sour Beer Really Easy Fruit Sour

[Shenanigans]

I never (intentionally ) brewed a sour beer before so want to give this a try.
Maybe I'm getting mixed up with Brett but will this thing not keep on fermenting (getting sourer) or the process goes so quick that all sugars are eaten up in a few weeks and the sour pitch stops working?
I guess you could make a sour pale ale with the base sour beer?
Instead of adding it to fruit just add about 2oz of hops as a dry hop. - Any of Amarillo, Vic Secret, Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic would be nice.
Would the dry hops kill off the sour pitch or it needs to be IBUs from boiling?
Then another option would be just to add a hop tea boiled for about 10 mins and filtered in the French press.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

There's a limit to the sourness from any Lactobacillus strain. For my tastes, L. plantarum (eg. sourpitch) finishes at just the right sourness, but other strains may get more sour.

Yes, you can add dry hops and/or hop tea to sour beer. It doesn't take much hop (boiled or dry) to stop L. plantarum (there are some other more hop tolerant strains) but IMO it doesn't need stopping anyway!

 

[Shenanigans]

There's a limit to the sourness from any Lactobacillus strain. For my tastes, L. plantarum (eg. sourpitch) finishes at just the right sourness, but other strains may get more sour.

Yes, you can add dry hops and/or hop tea to sour beer. It doesn't take much hop (boiled or dry) to stop L. plantarum (there are some other more hop tolerant strains) but IMO it doesn't need stopping anyway!

Great, thanks for the information.
Too late for summer now but I might give this a go in early spring.
A split batch; one half with raspberries and the other with hops.
Just need to decide which hop(s) and how much.
From what I have Nelson, Blanc, Lemon drop, Mandarina Bavaria or Calypso might also work.

 

[JTOVERMOHLE]

new brewer alert.......OG Post states............ 2/3 Pilsner malt. 1/3 Wheat malt.........is this 2/3 pound Pilsner and 1/3 pound wheat malt?? and is this DME or crushed grains? Definitely want to get this brewing soon...i have a set up that can do 2 gallons, so I will most likely do 2 different flavors in 1 gallon fermenters.....thinking a strawberry rhubarb and a cherry vanilla???

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Different systems have different efficiencies and batch sizes, so recipes that list quantities of grain really only work for the system the original brewer used. 2/3 pils malt and 1/3 wheat malt basically means you work out how much grain you need on your system to get to 1.045, then divide by three to work out how much wheat malt, and double that for your pils malt. You could certainly use LME instead of grains (I haven't seen wheat DME so I don't think you could use DME). For 2 gallons at 72% efficiency (which may or may not suit your system) you'd use about 3.3lbs of grain, so 2.2lbs of pils malt and 1.1lbs of wheat malt. Alternatively, you'd need 2.5lbs of LME in 2 gallons to get 1.045. This could be straight wheat LME or straight pils LME or a blend of both.

 

[JTOVERMOHLE]

Different systems have different efficiencies and batch sizes, so recipes that list quantities of grain really only work for the system the original brewer used. 2/3 pils malt and 1/3 wheat malt basically means you work out how much grain you need on your system to get to 1.045, then divide by three to work out how much wheat malt, and double that for your pils malt. You could certainly use LME instead of grains (I haven't seen wheat DME so I don't think you could use DME). For 2 gallons at 72% efficiency (which may or may not suit your system) you'd use about 3.3lbs of grain, so 2.2lbs of pils malt and 1.1lbs of wheat malt. Alternatively, you'd need 2.5lbs of LME in 2 gallons to get 1.045. This could be straight wheat LME or straight pils LME or a blend of both.

Thank you so much for clarification and breaking it down for me. Much appreciated!

 

[rpcvsam]

View attachment 687654

Vanilla Blueberry Sour - 6.8%abv

Thanks for the inspiration.

Wow nice....how much vanilla?

 

[danimal92sport]

Just pitched US-05 and Sour Pitch in to my 3rd round of this “beer”. My friends can’t get enough and they think I’m some kind of world class brewer. This one will have 2 lb/gal of raspberries and is for a friend’s birthday in January. This is the only beer, including commercial beers, that she likes.

 

[Spivey24]

Has anyone tried dryhopping this? I am currently fermenting a raspberry brew And wondering if that would be good. If so, what hops and how much did you do.

 

[rpcvsam]

Thanks for this, I made an extract version, 3 lbs pilsner and 3 lbs light DME, 10 min boil. One week saf-05 and 1g of Lallemand/Wildbrew Sour Pitch. Two weeks on 3 kilo of chopped and frozen mango didn't give enough flavor so I added 2 L mango juice. It's super drinkable! I've read that the sour pitch doesn't last that long opened...so I'll just have to brew another soon I guess

 

[danimal92sport]

Thanks for this, I made an extract version, 3 lbs pilsner and 3 lbs light DME, 10 min boil. One week saf-05 and 1g of Lallemand/Wildbrew Sour Pitch. Two weeks on 3 kilo of chopped and frozen mango didn't give enough flavor so I added 2 L mango juice. It's super drinkable! I've read that the sour pitch doesn't last that long opened...so I'll just have to brew another soon I guess

my packet of sour pitch has lasted over 6 months in a ziplock in the fridge.

Dan

 

[Gnomebrewer]

my packet of sour pitch has lasted over 6 months in a ziplock in the fridge.

Dan

Mine's about that old and still going. Manufacturers say to use them immediately because of the contamination risk (it's the same with yeast blocks). As long as it's in a clean fridge in a sealed container, I think it's OK.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Nectarines have just come into season here so they're delicious and really cheap. Going to try them this weekend in a sour batch.

 

[ratinator]

I have never brewed a sour beer, looking to try this with a bag of mixed berries (blackberry, blueberry, raspberry).

My lhbs sell the wildbrew sour pitch for $24.99, but also sell the lallemand wildbrew philly sour for $7.99. Would the philly sour work in this method as well?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The philly sour is a different beast. It's a yeast (Lachancea) that produces alcohol and acid. I haven't used it so I don't know how it would go in this style of beer.
I use sour pitch because it's 20AUD (about 13USD) here, and we don't have goodbelly in Australia. I don't know why sourpitch is cheaper here than in the US when all other yeasts are quite a bit more expensive. Probiotic capsules are expensive and reportedly unreliable, so sour pitch is my cheapest reliable option.

In your situation, if you're brewing a one-off sour I'd suggest using goodbelly. If you want to do lots of sours, fork out for the sour pitch - that $25 will work for at least 50 gallons of sour beer.

Regarding the fruit, the mixed berries will work but be aware that the raspberries will dominate. If you want a bit more blackberry and blueberry flavour, tip one of these in at bottling

 

[ratinator]

Perhaps what you want is a Kentucky Common. It's very similar to a cream ale, but has a tiny bit of black patent malt and a tiny bit of dark crystal malt.

Brewed this today, mashed at 66°C, as I wasn't sure about mashing neither at 65°C nor 68°C so went for a middle ground and added a couple things of my own to the grist, I will probably add the nibs while fermentation is still going but not at its peak, to avoid any oxidation

Cool, I will probably shell out the $25 then. I just did some more reading and ya it looks like I can do lots of batches for the $25. Costco sells the huge bags of the mixed berry and I am cool with the raspberry being more dominant. Thanks for the info
The philly sour is a different beast. It's a yeast (Lachancea) that produces alcohol and acid. I haven't used it so I don't know how it would go in this style of beer.
I use sour pitch because it's 20AUD (about 13USD) here, and we don't have goodbelly in Australia. I don't know why sourpitch is cheaper here than in the US when all other yeasts are quite a bit more expensive. Probiotic capsules are expensive and reportedly unreliable, so sour pitch is my cheapest reliable option.

In your situation, if you're brewing a one-off sour I'd suggest using goodbelly. If you want to do lots of sours, fork out for the sour pitch - that $25 will work for at least 50 gallons of sour beer.

Regarding the fruit, the mixed berries will work but be aware that the raspberries will dominate. If you want a bit more blackberry and blueberry flavour, tip one of these in at bottling
View attachment 708216

 

[The M]

I have never brewed a sour beer, looking to try this with a bag of mixed berries (blackberry, blueberry, raspberry).

My lhbs sell the wildbrew sour pitch for $24.99, but also sell the lallemand wildbrew philly sour for $7.99. Would the philly sour work in this method as well?

Philly sour will work just fine with your mixed berry sour. I've done three sour batches with Philly Sour and I'm super happy with the results. Philly Sour is also very easy to use especially if you don't have any experience brewing sours. Just sprinkle the yeast on top of your wort and wait for 10-14 days.

And it's true what Gnomebrewer wrote about the raspberries. They really are dominant with that mix but they will work just fine. Cheers!

 

[ratinator]

Philly sour will work just fine with your mixed berry sour. I've done three sour batches with Philly Sour and I'm super happy with the results. Philly Sour is also very easy to use especially if you don't have any experience brewing sours. Just sprinkle the yeast on top of your wort and wait for 10-14 days.

And it's true what Gnomebrewer wrote about the raspberries. They really are dominant with that mix but they will work just fine. Cheers!

Do you sprinkle the philly sour in the kettle or the fermentor along with the s-05?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

It goes into the fermenter on it's own (no need for US-05). It produces alcohol and acid on it's own. Be careful with sanitation - if this gets into other beers it will sour even with hops present (it's hop tolerant, whereas Lactobacillus plantarum isn't). You don't need to be paranoid about it, just clean and sanitise thoroughly.

 

[The M]

Do you sprinkle the philly sour in the kettle or the fermentor along with the s-05?

To the fermenter. And you don't need any other yeast with Philly Sour. It's a yeast and acid in the same packet

 

[The M]

Be careful with sanitation - if this gets into other beers it will sour even with hops present (it's hop tolerant, whereas Lactobacillus plantarum isn't). You don't need to be paranoid about it, just clean and sanitise thoroughly.

Good point. I've done my routine cleaning and sanitation after using Sour Pitch and haven't had any issues with contamination. Actually I'm now drinking west coast ipa which was fermented right after Philly Sour batch and I can tell you that this brew ain't sour But as Gnomebrewer pointed out thorough cleaning and sanitation is the key here

 

[rpcvsam]

Mine's about that old and still going. Manufacturers say to use them immediately because of the contamination risk (it's the same with yeast blocks). As long as it's in a clean fridge in a sealed container, I think it's OK.

Interesting, thanks for the feed back! I think I might do a blueberry milkshake sour next, I have some lactose and a 3 gallon vintners puree sitting around looking for a home

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Interesting, thanks for the feed back! I think I might do a blueberry milkshake sour next, I have some lactose and a 3 gallon vintners puree sitting around looking for a home

Nice. I haven't tried lactose in a sour yet. I keep baulking at the extra calories!

 

[Shenanigans]

My sourpitch arrive yesterday
If you go to their webiste datasheet there is some information on storage and ut says you can contact them for some tips on how to store it after opening.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/tds/TDS_WILDBREW_SOURPITCH_ENGLISH_DIGITAL.pdf
WildBrew™ Sour Pitch is currently available in 250g packs (for 25hL / 660 US gal)
and 10g packs (for 1hL.)
This product can be stored for 18 months at 4°C (40°F) or 36 months at -18°C
(0°F) in its original sealed packaging.
This product can be delivered and stored at ambient temperature (<25°C / 77°F)
for 3 weeks without significant loss of viability.
While it is recommended to use the entire sachet of WildBrew™ Sour Pitch after
opening, extended storage is possible under specific conditions. Please
contact us with any questions you may have.

 

[danimal92sport]

So, specific conditions; ziplock baggie.

 

[Shenanigans]

So, specific conditions; ziplock baggie.

Can be

Maybe like with hops I might split it up in to smaller portions in vaccum sealed bags and put them in the freezer.
In 1 or 2 gram portions.

See what size bags I can find for my sealer.

 

[danimal92sport]

Yeah I just needed to be a smart ass

From what you noted above, broken in to small quantities, vacuum sealed, and frozen sounds ideal. I think I’ll get through my 20g packet by 18 months - as I’ve eyeballed the dosing on the last 2 batches and I think I went over 2g...

Dan

 

[rpcvsam]

I was thinking about some wheat for head retention.....and yeah gmome it does add calorie for sure but it tastes good!

 

[luis.salas]

What about not pasteurizing the fruit and using it as the bacteria source for souring? I know that wild fermentation can be tricky but does my idea sounds too crazy?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

What about not pasteurizing the fruit and using it as the bacteria source for souring? I know that wild fermentation can be tricky but does my idea sounds too crazy?

I doubt the bacteria on fruit would be able to do much in a short time-frame. The fruit goes into already fermented (or mostly fermented) beer, which is a hostile environment for new organisms to try to take hold - acidic and alcoholic. It might work if fruit was added and left for months.

 

[Clarke Nicholson]

2nd batch using this recipe as a baseline. I upped the grains and ended at 1.055 OG for 5 gallons. After 5 days it’s down to about 1.015 and taste is lightly tart so far and really good. Racked to secondary on to 3 lb of whole dark sweet cherries with about 1/4oz of light toasted oak spiral. I’ll leave it here for about 2 weeks, and I put the oak spiral on a string in case I want to pull it at some point. Looking for the oak complexity, but don’t want an obvious oak flavor. Attempting to copy a local sour, Upland Cherry which is aged in oak barrels.

This beer does not photograph well, but it looks a lot less like tomato juice in person. It has the crimson, almost purple color of the cherries and looks great! Can’t wait for this one...
View attachment 682952

Looks great

 

[K_tile]

If I brewed this tomorrow would it be ready for Valentines Day? I was going to use 5lbs triple berry blend fruit for 3 gallons to push the fruit flavor due to short timeframe.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If I brewed this tomorrow would it be ready for Valentines Day? I was going to use 5lbs triple berry blend fruit for 3 gallons to push the fruit flavor due to short timeframe.

It definitely could be if you're kegging.

 

[K_tile]

Definitely kegging . I went the Goodbelly juice routine. Brought ph down to 4.5 and pitched carton. 24hrs will be in about an hour. Will the Goodbelly stop at a ph range or do I need to stop it before it goes to low?
I will be using US05 afterward.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Using the method in this recipe, the souring finishes just right for me without stopping the lacto. That means co-pitching lacto and yeast at the same time. You've chosen to pre-sour - I don't know where the souring will finish when you do it that way, or if you need to stop it. There's nothing wrong with pre-souring or kettle souring, but it's a different process.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm going to use this method for a second running from a big American Barleywine that I brew sometimes..
I usually do a no-sprage mash and get a first beer of around 1.100 and then wash the grains out with about 4 gallons and end ups with a second beer around 1.040. Normally I cap the second running with some oats, crystal and chocolate malt to get a brown ale with some earthy/spicy hops, depending on what I need to use up.

This time I'll boil it for 10 mins and after cooling do a mixed fermentation with some K-97 I saved from a previous batch. I'll see if I feel the fruit addition makes sense or not, depends on how light bodied it turns out.

Looking forward to trying it out

 

[Miraculix]

I'm going to use this method for a second running from a big American Barleywine that I brew sometimes..
I usually do a no-sprage mash and get a first beer of around 1.100 and then wash the grains out with about 4 gallons and end ups with a second beer around 1.040. Normally I cap the second running with some oats, crystal and chocolate malt to get a brown ale with some earthy/spicy hops, depending on what I need to use up.

This time I'll boil it for 10 mins and after cooling do a mixed fermentation with some K-97 I saved from a previous batch. I'll see if I feel the fruit addition makes sense or not, depends on how light bodied it turns out.

Looking forward to trying it out

Hopefully you saved it prior to the yeast touching the hopped wort, otherwise the lactos might not do their thing.

 

[Shenanigans]

Hopefully you saved it prior to the yeast touching the hopped wort, otherwise the lactos might not do their thing.

Yes, for sure.
I'll already start boiling the wort for the Barleywine when I'm sparging the second runnings for the sour beer.
I'll be doing a batch sparge and resting for 15 mins before draining.
No mash hops.

 

[Miraculix]

Yes, for sure.
I'll already start boiling the wort for the Barleywine when I'm sparging the second runnings for the sour beer.
I'll be doing a batch sparge and resting for 15 mins before draining.
No mash hops.

I meant the yeast. If you saved it from a yeastcake from a batch of hopped beer, it might not work.

 

[Shenanigans]

I meant the yeast. If you saved it from a yeastcake from a batch of hopped beer, it might not work.

Ah OK, good point, I didnt think about that.
I top cropped it from an american wheat ale and will be making a starter with it so it should be OK.

However I could also just use a fresh pack of US-05 to be 100% sure.
Better than taking an uneccessary risk.