Mixed-Fermentation Sour Beer Really Easy Fruit Sour

[Miraculix]

Ah OK, good point, I didnt think about that.
I top cropped it from an american wheat ale and will be making a starter with it so it should be OK.

However I could also just use a fresh pack of US-05 to be 100% sure.
Better than taking an uneccessary risk.

Use a fresh one.

 

[Shenanigans]

Use a fresh one.

Thanks for the advice, I will do that.
I'm sure I'll find another use for the K-97

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have never brewed a sour before and i plan to use this as my starting point. i dont like sours so i have no idea what to expect so .. as per my sisters request, i will be using strawberry (frozen) and lime (juiced and zest) do i need to do anything with these before i put them in? will be in a strainer bag. also i will be using the philly sour yeast, so do i still wait 4 to 5 days before adding my fruit? i plan to just add it to my primary. then wait the allotted amount of time and bottle this batch. I plan to use my old equipment for this trial so ill be fermenting in a big mouth bubbler with a spigot so once its done ill drain to a bottling bucket with priming sugar and bottle away. any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[marc1]

I have never brewed a sour before and i plan to use this as my starting point. i dont like sours so i have no idea what to expect so .. as per my sisters request, i will be using strawberry (frozen) and lime (juiced and zest) do i need to do anything with these before i put them in? will be in a strainer bag. also i will be using the philly sour yeast, so do i still wait 4 to 5 days before adding my fruit? i plan to just add it to my primary. then wait the allotted amount of time and bottle this batch. I plan to use my old equipment for this trial so ill be fermenting in a big mouth bubbler with a spigot so once its done ill drain to a bottling bucket with priming sugar and bottle away. any suggestions are appreciated.

Philly Sour isn't a mixed fermentation as described in this thread.

There is a big thread for Philly Sour though:

Philly Sour

Curious if anyone has experience with Lallemand Philly Sour yeast. It's a new strain of yeast as classified as Lachancea spp, STA-1 negative, produces lactic acid without the introduction of souring bacteria. Here's the corporate hype from Lallemand: Philly Sour produces moderate amounts of...

www.homebrewtalk.com

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

perfect, finding all the info i need there.. thanks for pointing me in that direction.

 

[Kevbud]

I just put my first sour in secondary. I am using two Corney kegs for secondary fermentation. I split the 5 gallons into two kegs. 1 with cherries and 1 with raspberries. i forgot to measure my fg when I transferred but it was no more that 1.012. I don’t have spunding valves so I release a little pressure each day. Any idea how much fermentation of the fruit sugar takes place. If I don’t release pressure will it carbonate in secondary. Thanks can’t wait to taste

 

[ejf063]

subscribed

 

[2BedroomBrewing]

Brewed this back in December as my first sour. Kept it simple and opted for DME and frozen mango and wow you guys were not wrong...

My 3-Gallon Recipe:
2 lb Light DME
1 lb What DME
0.5 lb each White Wheat and Carapils steeped (I wanted to ensure good head retention)

Pitched US-05 and 4 o.z. Goodbelly Mango

4 days later I added 2 lb of frozen mango



Next time I might opt for less goodbelly to drive the sourness down slightly but that's more for others than it is for me.

Thanks Gnomebrewer!

 

[Shenanigans]

So I brewed a Barleywine on the weekend and got an OG of 1.093 and she's chugging away with Voss.
From the second runnings I got 16 litres of 1.050 wort boiled it for 15 mins chilled and added 1g of sourpith and a pack of US-05.
That's also chugging away since yesterday. I'll take a sample on the weekeknd and report back.
Dont think it will be a good ides to ad fruit as there was some crystal malt including Special B and Caramunich II in the grain bill which might clash with it.

 

[cmac62]

^^^ Might be good with some raspberry

 

[Gnomebrewer]

^^^ Might be good with some raspberry

Raspberry is great with crystal malt in a sour.

 

[Shenanigans]

OK, I will see what it tastes like on the weekend and see if I can imagine what it would be like with some raspberries in there.
I can also split it and only add fruit to half of it

 

[Shenanigans]

It's nice and sour now indeed and down to 1.013 when I checked it on Sunday.
Still had a lot of yeast on top so will probably finish drier.
I was at the store today and bought a 750g pack of each of frozen raspberries and frozen sour cherries.
Not sure which one to add.
I want to package on Friday so hopefully 3 days will be enough time.
I'm too lazy to transfer the beer into a secondary so I'm just going to add them in a nylon sack to the primary and bottle from there.
Just need to decide on which fruit tonight

 

[Shenanigans]

Well I threw in the bag of rasberries and will bottle it tomorrow morning.
I took a small sample after only 1.5 days and it was already tasting strong of the fruit so I guess 4 days will be long enough.
Hopefully all the additional sugars are fermented out by then too.

 

[Shenanigans]

Well I threw in the bag of rasberries and will bottle it tomorrow morning.
I took a small sample after only 1.5 days and it was already tasting strong of the fruit so I guess 4 days will be long enough.
Hopefully all the additional sugars are fermented out by then too.

Well I would say this has been a success.
6 days in the bottle and I gave one a go.
Has the right amount of sourness for my taste and the raspberry flavour is there too.
Only thing missing is a bit of head retention but maybe that will come over the next week.
If not I can understand as it was made from a pure second runnings which can be thin.

Anyway a great way to get something different as a second beer from a big grain bill with minimum fuss.
Makes the brew day easier than doing a second full boil and hop schedule.
Next time I will look into adding more fruit and capping the mash for the second runnings with wheat flakes and/or some crystal wheat to help with the head retention.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm going to give this another go quicker than expected.
I had a hoppy Saison planned for the last few months and just realised the grain bill is very similar to to OP recipe. 80% pilsner 20% wheat. So today I brewed 10 gallons instead of 5 and half of it will be pitched with sour pitch and US-05. I got 2 kilos of mixed frozen berries and I will add those to the primary about 5 days before bottling.
Will probably be a purple beer as there are blackberries in there and any time I have made a smoothie with these berries it turned out purple too.

 

[skemp45]

Anyone brew this and not add any fruit? Just left it as is? How was the flavor?

 

[danimal92sport]

Anyone brew this and not add any fruit? Just left it as is? How was the flavor?

I haven’t kegged it that way, but my samples at 2 weeks taste really good prior to adding fruit. It is, however, pretty one-dimensional without something else going on. I think even the right hop used for a light dry hop could make this a great beer.

Dan

 

[skemp45]

I haven’t kegged it that way, but my samples at 2 weeks taste really good prior to adding fruit. It is, however, pretty one-dimensional without something else going on. I think even the right hop used for a light dry hop could make this a great beer.

Dan

You think maybe dryhop for a few days after fermentation is done?

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm going to give this another go quicker than expected.
I had a hoppy Saison planned for the last few months and just realised the grain bill is very similar to to OP recipe. 80% pilsner 20% wheat. So today I brewed 10 gallons instead of 5 and half of it will be pitched with sour pitch and US-05. I got 2 kilos of mixed frozen berries and I will add those to the primary about 5 days before bottling.
Will probably be a purple beer as there are blackberries in there and any time I have made a smoothie with these berries it turned out purple too.

So I just threw the berries into the primary and will bottle it next week, currently at 1.013
I will report back in a few weeks how the beer ended up.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You think maybe dryhop for a few days after fermentation is done?

Dryhop and/or a hop tea are both reportedly very tasty. I haven't tried it yet, but plan to. It can also be used to stop souring if you want something a bit milder.

 

[Shenanigans]

So I just threw the berries into the primary and will bottle it next week, currently at 1.013
I will report back in a few weeks how the beer ended up.

3 days later it is actually more red than the purple I was expecting.
Huge krausen on top again due to the fruit sugars.
Sample tasted ok but can't wait for it to be carbed up and cold.
I couldn't help grabbing some fruit and yeast but it looks like most of it is extracted except for the blueberries

 

[Blootster]

@Gnomebrewer have you (or anyone) had issues with Sulfur / vegetal almost spicy phenols coming off this beer after fruiting? I have brewed this beer 3 times now (always delicious) in various fermenters and setups and several fruit/addition combinations and twice now I have had some weird aromas coming from the beer.

Brew #1: Same recipe + blackberry/raspberry/blueberry frozen fruit medley. Fermented in glass carboy. Stayed on the fruit for 3 weeks, bottled conditioned, and still get a slight vegetal off aroma that has not aged out

Brew #2: Same recipe + peaches/mangoes, vanilla beans, and a small dry hop charge, fermented in glass carboy. Stayed on the fruit and spices for 3 weeks, bottle conditioned - this beer doesn't have the aroma and I suspect it's from the dry hop

Brew #3: Same recipe + raspberries only, fermented in SS brew bucket , stayed on fruit 2 weeks, kegged = this beer has a slight vegetal/sulfur

I'm happy to start dry hopping these beers every time but I feel it may be something in my process that's introducing this and I'd like to get it out if possible. Thanks

 

[Shenanigans]

I don't have a lot of experience with fruiting beers buy maybe 3 weeks is a bit long on the fruit for this type of beer which has lowish alcohol, not much malt flavour and no hops to hide any off flavours from the fruit.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

@Gnomebrewer have you (or anyone) had issues with Sulfur / vegetal almost spicy phenols coming off this beer after fruiting?

Only once - a burnt match like sulfuriness on a passionfruit and mango sour. Apparently it can happen with tropical fruits, so it's interesting that yours with the mango is the one that wasn't sulfury! I've done lots with raspberry and never had a problem, but only leave it on the fruit for a week or two.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Gonna be brewing this up on Saturday, first time making a sour. Following the original recipe exactly. Looking forward to it.

 

[Shenanigans]

3 days later it is actually more red than the purple I was expecting.
Huge krausen on top again due to the fruit sugars.
Sample tasted ok but can't wait for it to be carbed up and cold.
I couldn't help grabbing some fruit and yeast but it looks like most of it is extracted except for the blueberries View attachment 725742 View attachment 725741

So this turned out quite good again.
For the first half a glass I was a bit unsure but once the palate gets used to the sourness and it warms up a bit it's quite enjoyable.

The flavour of the berry mix I used leans more towards sour cherries. I think I slightly prefer raspberry so will use those again next time.
I'm also going to try a Witbier yeast to add a bit more complexity as the US-05 is maybe a bit too clean.
I have a few packs of M21 in the fridge so that should do nicely.
I'll do the same thing again, 10 gallons of approx. 1.050 with 80% plisner 20% wheat.
Half for a hoppy Saison and the other half for this sour beer.
This time the Saison will be hopped with Blanc instead of Saaz.

After that I think I will have experimented enough for now with fruit beer and will try a Gose but it might be easier to just use lactic acid for that

 

[skemp45]

Brewed this and just put it on fruit today. One batch, the left is on draginfruit and the other(right) is on raspberries. This pic is their color one hour after going on fruit.

I fermented with WLP518 kviek. Flavor has been great throughout the whole process. Minus cleaning the fermenters and almost gagging lol it’s been a great experience!!

 

[skemp45]

raspberry sour (right) and dragonfruit (left). This beer is FANTASTIC!! Raspberry has a much better taste than dragonfruit but the dragonfruit is still tasty.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

This turned out great! Used raspberries and it's very prominent

 

[Shenanigans]

A bit off topic but I brewed a kettle sour with SourPitch and 50% pils 50% wheat over the weekend.
I soured it for about 45 hours at 35oC.
I also added a table spoon of lactic acid to get the PH down before adding the SourPitch - no exact science or PH meter but the PH should have been around 4.2
It tasted much different than when done for a week at 19oC and no acid.
Very lemony as described on the manufacturer website.
I added 15g salt , 20g Corriander and 60g Tradition hops at the start of a 15 min boil.
I got 23 Litres of 1.048 wort with 12 IBUs and am fermenting it with M21 Witbier yeast.
Hopefully it will be a refreshing Summer drink around 5%.

 

[cmac62]

anyone on here try the philly sour yeast? Thoughts?

 

[JTOVERMOHLE]

anyone on here try the philly sour yeast? Thoughts?

I have a brew day planned on Monday or tuesday next week. 4 gallon split batch using philly sour. 2 gallons each of peach and rhubarb. No experience using it yet, but i will post here with my experience along the way.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

For anyone interested in a slightly less sour version with a tad more complexity, my current version is now a bit different.....I'm including 5% 20-30L crystal malt (additional to the original malt bill) and using Nottingham yeast at 16.5C/62F. The rest of the process is the same (including using a half dose of sour-pitch). I think the lower ferment temperature inhibits the lacto a bit, leaving enough sourness to balance the beer but not be berliner-weisse like. I really like it, especially with raspberries.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

So second time I made this there was a definite pellicle formed .... not that familiar with souring or lacto but kegged anyway and it tasted fine. Serving through a picnic tap tho instead of my normal lines because the pellicle had me worried some other bug had got in there. Is this normal with lacto I.e., don't need to worry that much?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Probably no need to worry, but something might have got in from the fruit. Give everything a through clean and you should be alright.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Thanks for the response! Kinda what I figured but was a little worried.

 

[TwogunRocky]

For 2 gallons at 72% efficiency (which may or may not suit your system) you'd use about 3.3lbs of grain, so 2.2lbs of pils malt and 1.1lbs of wheat malt.

Hey mate,
I'm looking to brew your recipe at the scale above, so 2.2lb(1kg) pils malt, 1.1lb(0.5kg) wheat malt & I'm putting in 0.22lb(100g) flaked oats too.
It's my first ever AG brew, and I'll be BIAB on the stove top.... Ideally I'd like to finish postboil with 11/12 litres in the fermenter so I could split it into two batches. I really don't want to screw it up so hope you could give me some advice as best you can. It's the mash I'm most concerned about, what volume of strike water would I use and what temp am I looking for, for the modest grain bill and required final volume above?.... I only have one SS kettle to boil with, so would a full volume mash be best?, then top up to required volume with water?
The online calculators are a bit above my level of knowledge right now... So to condense my question, it's the volume, temp & length of the mash required to achieve a post boil volume of approx 11/12 litres at 1.045.
I know there are too many variables to give anything like a specific answer, but if you could give me an educated guesstimate I'd really appreciate the help, as I say its my first AG brew and am very excited to try your recipe, I'm jumping in to AG with both feet albeit on a sensible level, so if it goes wrong its not the end of the world but I'd like to give it the best odds of turning out drinkable.
Appreciate any help very much

 

[Gnomebrewer]

That's 3.5lbs of grain.
At 35ppg (a rough guesstimate) you'll have about 120 gravity points available.
Assuming 75% efficiency, you'd end up with about 90 points in your finished wort.
Over three gallons, that's a starting gravity of 1.030.

So, to get to 1.045, I'd suggest you add 50% more grain, and have some extract on hand to bump the gravity up if your efficiency is lower than 75%. It won't matter if your gravity ends up being above 1.045 (better than 75% efficiency).

5lbs of grain will absorb roughly 2.5 litres of water without squeezing or hanging for a while to drain. You'll get that down to about a litre if you give the bag a good squeeze and somewhere in between if you hang it to drain. So you'll need about 13 to 15 litres of mash/sparge water.

For mashing, you need at least 6 litres (1.5 gallons) of water. The rest can be used for sparging. Or you can use the full volume for mashing with no sparge, or anywhere in between!

Having said all of that, I don't think this is the best recipe for a first all-grain (unless you really like sours). Wheat (and oats) are notoriously a PITA to mash (but less so in BIAB systems, so go for it if you want to).

 

[Drewch]

Hey mate,
I'm looking to brew your recipe at the scale above, so 2.2lb(1kg) pils malt, 1.1lb(0.5kg) wheat malt & I'm putting in 0.22lb(100g) flaked oats too.
It's my first ever AG brew, and I'll be BIAB on the stove top.... Ideally I'd like to finish postboil with 11/12 litres in the fermenter so I could split it into two batches.
... So to condense my question, it's the volume, temp & length of the mash required to achieve a post boil volume of approx 11/12 litres at 1.045.

Having said all of that, I don't think this is the best recipe for a first all-grain (unless you really like sours). Wheat (and oats) are notoriously a PITA to mash (but less so in BIAB systems, so go for it if you want to).

I've gone up to 100% wheat BIAB without issue; so I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it. But I agree with Gnomebrewer that you'll need more grain to hit the OG you're looking for. At 75% mash efficiency, I'd suggest (to keep the numbers even...): 1.5kg pils, 700g wheat malt, 150g flaked oats all crushed as fine as you can get it. I crush my grains at 0.025 gap and routinely hit 80%+ mash efficiency at a moderate OG like this with a 30 minute mash. You'll need about 15-17L of total mash water depending on what you expect to lose in the boil (BrewFather says I'd need 14.96L but I only boil for 30 minutes).