Random Beer Thoughts

[drgarage1]

I friend of mine is a pro brewer. He told me whenever he goes to a new brewery he always starts with a lager. It's easy to cover a beer's flaws with a ton of hops or adjuncts but a lager brewed to the definition of the style shows true brewing skill.

As someone's who's a drunk many over-hopped beers with massive drainpour flaws, I would like to note that you can't cover flaws with a ton of hops unless you're selling it to someone with abnormally high off-flavor thresholds. Instead, you get people who think the off-flavor is part of the beer. Witness all the Australians who thought that butterscotch IPA was delicious.

 

[drgarage1]

at first i hated this guy and everything about this video except the bee dude, shout out to the honey guy, and then as i continued to watch i just started to hate myself more and more for ever clicking on it.

thanks dude.

Sounds like someone isn't ready for the coming sparkling ale revolution.

At least their name is easy to make into CaliCrap.

 

[rjose]

As someone's who's a drunk many over-hopped beers with massive drainpour flaws, I would like to note that you can't cover flaws with a ton of hops unless you're selling it to someone with abnormally high off-flavor thresholds. Instead, you get people who think the off-flavor is part of the beer. Witness all the Australians who thought that butterscotch IPA was delicious.

Massive flaws, no. But you can get away with a lot of minor flaws that would be obvious in a traditional lager.

 

[drgarage1]

Massive flaws, no. But you can get away with a lot of minor flaws that would be obvious in a traditional lager.

For sure -- there is no hiding, and no confusion about whether it's good or not in a pale lager.

 

[coach1]

This is dinner at PDX. A ******* airport!

Cast iron skillet fried chicken, mashed potatoes w/ gravy, & bacon braised collards with a Boneyard RPM in a (non-frosted!) mug. ******* amazing. Reminder: at an airport.

 

[LukeAleTime]

I friend of mine is a pro brewer. He told me whenever he goes to a new brewery he always starts with a lager. It's easy to cover a beer's flaws with a ton of hops or adjuncts but a lager brewed to the definition of the style shows true brewing skill.

I really hate the "try the lager because nowhere to hide" stance. People that do that seem like they are looking to catch the brewery out. Instead of walking in and looking for fun, the first thought is to try and look for flaws.

And if they do... great. You found some DMS in a lager. Well done. You are the winner.

Edit: And the whole hops = no skill thing ***** me off to no end. So many ****** breweries put out ****** IPAs with heaps of hops. Saying **** like that diminshes the talent and effort that goes into world class IPAs (etc). Tbh, it's usually said by brewers who make rubbish IPAs.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Meanwhile, been hosting brewers during free "classes" for Good Beer Week here, and it's so refreshing to have groups of people come along keen to learn about beer. People who don't like hops or dark beers leaving super psyched about a local porter or IPA is really fun to be part of.

I spent a while explaining to a lady who didn't know why she liked some pales and not others, the language around American Pales/Pales and IBUs and what to look for on labels. It was really enjoyable.

 

[rjose]

I really hate the "try the lager because nowhere to hide" stance. People that do that seem like they are looking to catch the brewery out. Instead of walking in and looking for fun, the first thought is to try and look for flaws.

And if they do... great. You found some DMS in a lager. Well done. You are the winner.

Edit: And the whole hops = no skill thing ***** me off to no end. So many ****** breweries put out ****** IPAs with heaps of hops. Saying **** like that diminshes the talent and effort that goes into world class IPAs (etc). Tbh, it's usually said by brewers who make rubbish IPAs.

At the risk of being no fun, do we really need another brewery that offers an unbalanced IPA, a stout with coffee/chocolate/something else, a wheat with fruit and a lager that tastes like ****?

I'm all for fun beers and I'm all for hoppy beers but if you can't also brew classics to the style do you really have any business opening a brewery.

 

[rjose]

Meanwhile, been hosting brewers during free "classes" for Good Beer Week here, and it's so refreshing to have groups of people come along keen to learn about beer. People who don't like hops or dark beers leaving super psyched about a local porter or IPA is really fun to be part of.

I spent a while explaining to a lady who didn't know why she liked some pales and not others, the language around American Pales/Pales and IBUs and what to look for on labels. It was really enjoyable.

See, I have no problem with this, this is cool.

All I'm saying is a brewery putting out delicious lagers is a rarity and reflects greatly on the skill of the brewers.

 

[LukeAleTime]

At the risk of being no fun, do we really need another brewery that offers an unbalanced IPA, a stout with coffee/chocolate/something else, a wheat with fruit and a lager that tastes like ****?

I'm all for fun beers and I'm all for hoppy beers but if you can't also brew classics to the style do you really have any business opening a brewery.

Those aren't the only two options though. There's a place for more great classic pilsners and a place for fruit IPAs. As long as the brewery makes good beer with good intent and the customers enjoy it then what else matters?

We might not be short of unbalanced beers but by your argument I can get Weihenstephan or Dupont at every bottle store, so why do I need more classic styles?

 

[rjose]

Those aren't the only two options though. There's a place for more great classic pilsners and a place for fruit IPAs. As long as the brewery makes good beer with good intent and the customers enjoy it then what else matters?

We might not be short of unbalanced beers but by your argument I can get Weihenstephan or Dupont at every bottle store, so why do I need more classic styles?

It's not the be all end all. It's a spot test, if you make a good lager you have probably got your **** straight in the brew house.

 

[Snarf1]

if you can't also brew classics to the style do you really have any business opening a brewery.

Good luck keeping your 'classic styles' brewery open.

A better question is what business anyone has opening a brewery these days. With nothing to diferentiate one from the next and an increasingly crowded market, seems like highly questionable decsision in most markets these days.

 

[LukeAleTime]

It's not the be all end all. It's a spot test, if you make a good lager you have probably got your **** straight in the brew house.

Going in with intent to "test" a brewery seems to defeat the point to me.

 

[rjose]

Good luck keeping your 'classic styles' brewery open.

A better question is what business anyone has opening a brewery these days. With nothing to diferentiate one from the next and an increasingly crowded market, seems like highly questionable decsision in most markets these days.

Bell's has been open for 30 years. Year round lineup: lager, blonde, pale, ipa, porter, stout, amber.

 

[rjose]

Going in with intent to "test" a brewery seems to defeat the point to me.

Call it what you want, when I taste a beer I'm judging whether it tastes good or not and that reflects on the brewer.

 

[trickytunadicky]

Bell's has been open for 30 years. Year round lineup: lager, blonde, pale, ipa, porter, stout, amber.

Dem seasonals doe.

 

[Fahmie25]

Bell's has been open for 30 years. Year round lineup: lager, blonde, pale, ipa, porter, stout, amber.

yeah, but like you said, bells has been open for 30 years! of course that's their "core" lineup and of course it works, because that was probably an incredibly innovative lineup to have 30 years ago and they have plenty of brand recognition at this point to live on. much easier for that business model to work when there are 500 breweries in the USA, not 5000 (this is hyperbole, in case you try to point out the exact number of breweries)...highly doubt you can open a brewery with only those beers now. What has bells done recently? the planetary series! which includes : a Blonde Ale Brewed With Honey, Apricot, Cardamom, and Vanilla, a black DIPA, a "mystical stout", a BB barleywine, among other "non-traditional" styles...oh and hopslam

 

[trickytunadicky]

Metropolitain does alright doing just plain ole lagers.

 

[rjose]

yeah, but like you said, bells has been open for 30 years! of course that's their "core" lineup and of course it works, because that was probably an incredibly innovative lineup to have 30 years ago and they have plenty of brand recognition at this point to live on. much easier for that business model to work when there are 500 breweries in the USA, not 5000 (this is hyperbole, in case you try to point out the exact number of breweries)...highly doubt you can open a brewery with only those beers now. What has bells done recently? the planetary series! which includes : a Blonde Ale Brewed With Honey, Apricot, Cardamom, and Vanilla, a black DIPA, a "mystical stout", a BB barleywine, among other "non-traditional" styles...oh and hopslam

Yeah, but if brewery XYZ brews a garbage porter I have no interest in trying their "mystical stout" because it's going to be a mess.

 

[Snarf1]

Metropolitain does alright doing just plain ole lagers.

Good to have a niche, but deciding to need twice as many tanks looks bad on paper.

 

[rjose]

I'm not saying every brewer should only brew classic styles, I love innovative new brews.

I am saying every brewer should be able to brew classic styles and that if your lager is good there is an extremely high probability that you have excellent control of every step of the beer making process.

 

[RedCoffee]

Being frank, though, should every brewery start with that approach? I know of a particular brewery (which powz87 is familiar with) that came out the gate with the goal of doing mostly "classic styles." I believe at one point the rallying cry was to never do IPAs. For whatever reason, their first several beers had quality issues. So everyone's first impression - some their first impression of craft beer generally - was a poor one.

Now in this particular case it's probably less an issue of "growing pains" and more a general quality control issue IMO, but it certainly hasn't helped their business. Wouldn't they have been better off starting out with easier-to-nail beers to build a following first?

 

[Sam Fu]

Bruh...you ain't heard about that nu nu? Milkshake IPAs are OUT, so are adjunct stouts. It's all about that CEREAL BERLINERZ now. Don't even think about blowing up my inbox asking to trade for my Golden Grahams Weisse

 

[rjose]

Being frank, though, should every brewery start with that approach? I know of a particular brewery (which powz87 is familiar with) that came out the gate with the goal of doing mostly "classic styles." I believe at one point the rallying cry was to never do IPAs. For whatever reason, their first several beers had quality issues. So everyone's first impression - some their first impression of craft beer generally - was a poor one.

Now in this particular case it's probably less an issue of "growing pains" and more a general quality control issue IMO, but it certainly hasn't helped their business. Wouldn't they have been better off starting out with easier-to-nail beers to build a following first?

If you can't make a brown, an amber and a simple Belgian style maybe you shouldn't be running a brewery. And if you know a beer isn't right you shouldn't sell it to people. I know getting any business up and running isn't easy but like you said first impressions count.

Bruh...you ain't heard about that nu nu? Milkshake IPAs are OUT, so are adjunct stouts. It's all about that CEREAL BERLINERZ now. Don't even think about blowing up my inbox asking to trade for my Golden Grahams Weisse

Kuhnhenn Breakfast of Champions

Meanwhile they can't make their flagship beer right and they have to force people to buy their bock by packaging it with BB4D and BBBW.

 

[drgarage1]

I've had great lagers from breweries whose ales had fermentation issues. Good lagers are hard to make. Good ales, too. Mastering one doesn't mean you'll nail the other -- especially given the differences in process.

 

[lb304854]

do we really need another brewery that offers an unbalanced IPA

If you look at the books of 95% of all breweries/brewpubs, the answer is probably yes. **** sells. Gonzoillini

 

[trickytunadicky]

Being frank, though, should every brewery start with that approach? I know of a particular brewery (which powz87 is familiar with) that came out the gate with the goal of doing mostly "classic styles." I believe at one point the rallying cry was to never do IPAs. For whatever reason, their first several beers had quality issues. So everyone's fbirst impression - some their first impression of craft beer generally - was a poor one.

Now in this particular case it's probably less an issue of "growing pains" and more a general quality control issue IMO, but it certainly hasn't helped their business. Wouldn't they have been better off starting out with easier-to-nail beers to build a following first?

Are we talking about his sanitation savvy former employer?

 

[SirDickButts]

Good luck keeping your 'classic styles' brewery open.

A better question is what business anyone has opening a brewery these days. With nothing to diferentiate one from the next and an increasingly crowded market, seems like highly questionable decsision in most markets these days.

i can tell you've had some bad experiences with opening a brewery.
i feel i've made the right decision to turn down that opportunity with a "friend."
notice friend is in quotations. i told him i didn't want to open a brewery with someone who just started homebrewing
and doesn't even know how to make a good beer yet...and that im ok with just being a homebrewer.
i also told him i would help him brew as a friend, not as a business partner...its been 3.5 months since i've heard from him.

 

[stupac2]

Good luck keeping your 'classic styles' brewery open.

A better question is what business anyone has opening a brewery these days. With nothing to diferentiate one from the next and an increasingly crowded market, seems like highly questionable decsision in most markets these days.

Depends on what they want to be. The market for the next Lagunitas (as in a brewery that expands rapidly and serves a huge market mostly through distribution_, yeah that's probably going to be close to impossible. But there are tons of places that could stand to have a neighborhood brew pub that does close to no distribution but makes decent beer for the super-local crowd. For instance, there's nothing within 2 miles of me. No good bars, no good breweries. And that 2 miles is counting Ale Industries, subtract them because lol and it's probably more like 5. I would love for a little brewpub to open in my neighborhood and given the crazy gentrification happening here I'd be surprised if you couldn't make the business model work.

So that's what I come back to, there's not really much reason why brewpubs should be significantly smaller in number than other neighborhood amenities, like, say, grocery stores. Big breweries obviously are a different story.

 

[rjose]

If you look at the books of 95% of all breweries/brewpubs, the answer is probably yes. **** sells. Gonzoillini

Budweiser America cashes big checks too.