Raging Bitch Clone

[ddockery]

Let us know how that goes - was disappointed they aren't shipping the kits out at all.

 

[psbuckland]

The RB kit actually comes with the actual "El Diablo" liquid yeast, which is why they chose not to ship. If you want to risk the yeast dying...I'll ship you one

S-

 

[ddockery]

The RB kit actually comes with the actual "El Diablo" liquid yeast, which is why they chose not to ship. If you want to risk the yeast dying...I'll ship you one

S-

I appreciate the offer, but I just brewed my own Belgian IPA 2 weeks ago. Hoping to end up somewhere between Raging Bitch and Allagash Hugh Malone.

 

[brewtime]

Let us know how that goes - was disappointed they aren't shipping the kits out at all.

FD has said if you want it shipped to you contact them and they will qoute you a price (at least that is what was posted on their FB page) overnighting a 15-20 lbs box gets rather pricey,

 

[ddockery]

That's nice to know, but overnight seems like overkill. Yeast vials seem to do just fine with a couple of ice packs. Not trying to complain, because it's pretty awesome they are releasing these at all. It inspired me to make what I think will be a pretty tasty brew of my own too.

 

[JBOGAN]

Brewed this recipe and had a bottle after one week and it was dead on!Forget the el diablo Wyeast 3522 does the job.

 

[IslandLizard]

Brewed this recipe and had a bottle after one week and it was dead on!Forget the el diablo Wyeast 3522 does the job.

I'm about to brew this, and did the research. There are quite a few recipes out there including the CYBI one.

I agree on the 3522 but how can you say this recipe is dead on? FD lists the IBU as 60. This recipe claims to be 102, although BS calculates it a little lower. I've had the original quite a few times and the IBU is nowhere near 100. 60 sounds about right, and there must be some dry hopping done to get that in your face aroma.

I intend to brew it along the CYBI lines, but may be adding 1 pound of Carapils and/or mash at 153-154°F and use WY3522 (Belgian Ardennes) instead of WY3944 (Belgian Wit). I'll also add the 2.3oz Amarillo dry hop for 5-7 days. Let's see how it comes out.

 

[JBOGAN]

I'm about to brew this, and did the research. There are quite a few recipes out there including the CYBI one.

I agree on the 3522 but how can you say this recipe is dead on? FD lists the IBU as 60. This recipe claims to be 102, although BS calculates it a little lower. I've had the original quite a few times and the IBU is nowhere near 100. 60 sounds about right, and there must be some dry hopping done to get that in your face aroma.

I intend to brew it along the CYBI lines, but may be adding 1 pound of Carapils and/or mash at 153-154°F and use WY3522 (Belgian Ardennes) instead of WY3944 (Belgian Wit). I'll also add the 2.3oz Amarillo dry hop for 5-7 days. Let's see how it comes out.

Happened to check back on this post.I meant dead on taste wise.Plan on brewing this in four weeks again.

 

[Horseflesh]

IslandLizard, any update on your version of the Raging B recipe?

 

[IslandLizard]

IslandLizard, any update on your version of the Raging B recipe?

The flat sample I took today tastes really good, yet still a bit sweeter than I like. I've let it condition for a month trying to get the FG down a bit more. It was at 1.020 and is now at 1.018. I'm calling it done. I think 1.014 would be more in the ballpark.

I've just started dry hopping this with [EDIT] 1.5oz of Amarillo and .5oz of Columbus in 5 gallons in the keg. I'll be taking "samples" along the way

After a few hours the dry hops are very pronounced already, with quite a bit of a bite to them. I hope that will mellow out.

I doubt it's a clone, but definitely yummy.
I should get a six pack and do some more comparative tasting notes, but I really prefer it fresh from the tap. Much better than bottles.

I'll be brewing this again, hopefully closer to the pin. I wonder if using Witbier yeast WY3944 would be the actual ticket. The Belgian Ardennes (WY3522) leaves quite a bit of bubblegum flavor, extra pronounced in the slightly sweet beer. Not sure if it should be there.

 

[Stevo2569]

Island.
Make sure u pitch enough healthy yeast to get that FG down and ferment a little lower temp during primary then ramp up temp after for less bubblegum. I know what you mean about the Ardennes.


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[IslandLizard]

Island.
Make sure u pitch enough healthy yeast to get that FG down and ferment a little lower temp during primary then ramp up temp after for less bubblegum. I know what you mean about the Ardennes.


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Brewed on 1/24/14, using Crisp Ale malt (not Maris Otter).
Mashed at 154° (actually 152-154) for 60'
Boiled for 90'

I had a 2-liter starter of WY3522 (B. Ardennes) but it ended up being 3 weeks old, stored at 61°F ambient.
Fermented at 61°F ambient for 6-7 days, which may have been 65°F in the fermentor early on, yet a bit too cool perhaps to finish, should have ramped up earlier. No sample, taken.

I then conditioned it out for 3 weeks in the mid 70s-low 80s. Roused the yeast daily, as it drops down into a solid rubbery cake. So after 4 weeks total the FG ended up at 1.020 (2/25/14). That sample tasted really good, alas way too sweet. Complex, Belgian-like, no obvious bubblegum.

In an effort to shave a few points off, I left it condition another month, and it did go down to 1.018. But the taste changed too, definitely more aged, with the bubblegum standing out suddenly. And it is still too sweet, although the dry hops are helping to offset that.

I think the 4 week sample was better, yet too sweet.

I'm looking into an oxygenation setup. I think that will help with the bigger ales. I don't brew much under 1.070.

 

[joyceman]

I'll be brewing this again, hopefully closer to the pin. I wonder if using Witbier yeast WY3944 would be the actual ticket. The Belgian Ardennes (WY3522) leaves quite a bit of bubblegum flavor, extra pronounced in the slightly sweet beer. Not sure if it should be there.

I used 3944 for a batch last fall. I fermented in the middles 60s ambient and did not get a bubblegum flavor. Mine dropped to 1.014. The only real problem I had with it was how little it flocs. It stayed cloudy for a month or so before dropping clear. You have to be real careful pouring as well.

Its a good beer, I still have a six pack that Im holding onto for this spring.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used 3944 for a batch last fall. I fermented in the middles 60s ambient and did not get a bubblegum flavor. Mine dropped to 1.014. The only real problem I had with it was how little it flocs. It stayed cloudy for a month or so before dropping clear. You have to be real careful pouring as well.

Its a good beer, I still have a six pack that Im holding onto for this spring.

3944 is Witbier yeast, and has no bubblegum, only apricots (and pineapple)
[EDIT] How does yours compare to the real one?
I really like RG from the tap. The bottles don't have that freshness. Probably age.

Strange how you had trouble clearing your beer using 3944. The 3944 starter I made was clear as a bell after 2 days in the fridge. I have it stepping up on my shaker now in anticipation of ... brewing a Witbier finally.
Yes, that 3944 yeast doesn't stick together. It's very loose and light. When I decanted mine it started to bloom too.

Still looking for a good Witbier recipe, want to brew this today or tomorrow at the latest.

 

[joyceman]

Mines close, but not perfect. Think I need more columbus late or dryhopped.

Cant help if you're looking for something special, my wits pretty simple (nice pun there)...

3lbs pils
3 lbs malted wheat
2 lbs unmalted wheat
1 lb quick oats

.5 oz Nugget for 90
1 oz Hallertau for 2

3 tsp bitter orange 15
3 tsp toasted cracked coriander 15

 

[IslandLizard]

Flying Dog uses El Diablo yeast so that's going to be tough to get. And who knows how that has evolved in their brewery. I was hoping to get the floral/estery profile from 3522 with that smack in your face punch from a generous dry hop. Together with a thick mouthfeel and nice dry bittery aftertaste, they created a real "Belgian" IPA. They sell the kits with El Diablo.

I was going to use just Amarillo for dry hopping, but with the higher leftover sweetness I opted to counterbalance by using some Columbus as well. I had a small early dry-hopped sample and it is stingy!

Thank you, your wits are spot on, and simple. I was looking in the Hoegaarden direction with coriander and orange peel, even some rye. I may try your recipe. Unmalted wheat as in wheat flakes? Got plenty of those, as well as flaked oats. Nugget sounds good there. Was thinking Saaz or Styrian Goldings for flavor/aroma. Hallertau would be different.

 

[joyceman]

Ive used both wheat flakes and bulk wheat from the grocery stores for unmalted wheat. The bulk is cheaper, maybe around $1/lb. Just make sure you dont overdo the unmalted grians and have enough DP.

I like Saaz late as well. It varies based upon what I have on hand: Saaz, Liberty, Mt. Hood, Hallertau.

Try toasting the coriander before cracking. Someone clued me into that last year and I think it adds a really noticeable flavor.

 

[IslandLizard]

I got flaked wheat in a group buy, so it was under $1 a pound.
I'll probably precook the flakes a bit anyway before the mash. And add some rice hulls.
Surely keeping DP high enough.

Is a protein rest needed?
I've read adding a spoonful of wheat flour at the end of the boil helps to keep the beer hazy forever.

So toasted coriander is better than the "green" ones? I always toast a big bunch of them for Indian cooking, then put them in the spice mill. Never thought toasting would be better that way in beer too.

 

[Stevo2569]

Brewed on 1/24/14, using Crisp Ale malt (not Maris Otter).
Mashed at 154° (actually 152-154) for 60'
Boiled for 90'

I had a 2-liter starter of WY3522 (B. Ardennes) but it ended up being 3 weeks old, stored at 61°F ambient.
Fermented at 61°F ambient for 6-7 days, which may have been 65°F in the fermentor early on, yet a bit too cool perhaps to finish, should have ramped up earlier. No sample, taken.

I then conditioned it out for 3 weeks in the mid 70s-low 80s. Roused the yeast daily, as it drops down into a solid rubbery cake. So after 4 weeks total the FG ended up at 1.020 (2/25/14). That sample tasted really good, alas way too sweet. Complex, Belgian-like, no obvious bubblegum.

In an effort to shave a few points off, I left it condition another month, and it did go down to 1.018. But the taste changed too, definitely more aged, with the bubblegum standing out suddenly. And it is still too sweet, although the dry hops are helping to offset that.

I think the 4 week sample was better, yet too sweet.

I'm looking into an oxygenation setup. I think that will help with the bigger ales. I don't brew much under 1.070.

Sounds good maybe you accidently mashed to high. Idk. Just guessing. I don't oxy injection and never have prob with attenuation.



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[joyceman]

Is a protein rest needed?
I've read adding a spoonful of wheat flour at the end of the boil helps to keep the beer hazy forever.

Never bother with a protien rest on a wit, its supposed to be cloudy.

Im going to try another run at Raging Bitch again next weekend. Im upping the Columbus in the dryhop to a full ounce and up the late addition to 1.5. I've got a nice big jar of 3944 and a sack of Avangard Pils looking to be used.

 

[brewtime]

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells. It is pretty much sopt on they even give you the yeast. But I have confirmation from someone at Flying Dog that Wyeast3944 is a good sub. they are releasing the kit next month I plan on making 10 gallons of this stuff.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #79 Raging Bitch Clone
Brewer: Drew Morgan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.10 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
16 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 91.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
0.75 oz Warrior [20.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 3 56.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15. Hop 4 7.0 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
1.20 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 6 -
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Wh Hop 8 8.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124 Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

 

[IslandLizard]

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells. It is pretty much sopt on they even give you the yeast. But I have confirmation from someone at Flying Dog that Wyeast3944 is a good sub. they are releasing the kit next month I plan on making 10 gallons of this stuff.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #79 Raging Bitch Clone
Brewer: Drew Morgan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.10 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
16 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 91.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
0.75 oz Warrior [20.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 3 56.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15. Hop 4 7.0 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
1.20 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 6 -
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Wh Hop 8 8.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124 Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

Is this the recipe that's included in the FD kit or did you grab it off Beersmith? I've seen that Beersmith recipe, just don't know if it is concocted by someone, like 99.99% of all recipes floating around (BrewToad being one of the larger "offenders") or the one and only genuine version as sold by FD with their kit.

I'm about to brew the recipe again, splitting the batch to ferment one with WY3944 (B. Witbier) and the other with WY3522 (B. Ardennes). I want to try to get the ingredient list firmed up a bit. I'm still a bit puzzled with the hops yielding the correct IBU in the end. Not even sure what is correct, actually.

 

[brewtime]

Included in the kit I transferred it to BS


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[IslandLizard]

Included in the kit I transferred it to BS

Thank you! It wasn't clear before where the BS file came from. Gonna give it a double spin.

[EDIT] Do they mention a mash temp? The OP mashed at 150°F, but he's also using a different recipe with Carapils in it and using C40 not C60.

OK thanks for the pm. Mashing is at 152 then.

 

[IslandLizard]

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells.[...]

Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
[...]

Monday 5/5/14 I brewed your recipe pretty closely. However, when I entered your recipe into BS it only calculates 48.9 IBUs for Tinseth and 61.5 for Rager, not counting the Whirlpool hops; 71.1 and 84.5 respectively when counting them as 9.5 min boil additions. I guess that's where the 77.5 IBUs the recipe is listing comes from. Not sure if that's correct though.

I had no Warrior so I substituted your 15.2 Warrior AAUs with 18.4 AAUs (+20%) of Nugget and used them as FWH.

Also added 6 grams of Calcium Sulfate to the boil kettle. I read a different recipe (Brewtoad) where 12 grams was suggested. That sounds really high. I had added 6 grams in my previous batch and I think that tasted just right.

My efficiency is a bit higher so I ended up with 1.041 in the 3rd runnings. Probably could use a little less malt.

OG came out to be 1.081 and 5.5 gallons went onto half of the previous unwashed yeast cake of WY3522 (Belgian Ardennes) and fermentation started within 24 hours @62°F.

Note: I was originally planning to ferment one gallon on the side with WY3944 (Belgian Witbier) for comparison. That didn't work out.

 

[brewtime]

I just picked up two kits from Flying Dog I will scan the brew sheet that come with the kit and post it to this tread


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[sleepymonkey]

Firebat, I am just wondering why your second post lists the boil time as 90 minutes but in your first post the first hop addition is at 60. Did you boil for 30 minutes before adding the bittering hops? If so, why? Also, I'd like to hear how this turned out. This is an old thread, I know - not crossing my fingers.

 

[Broham1]

Most 90 minute boils start the bittering edition at the traditional 60 minutes left in the boil. Typically this is because the extra boil time is to reduce DMS from a large pils base, to add caramelization, or to concentrate the wort.

 

[sleepymonkey]

Thanks for the post, Brewtime, and IslandLizard I am having the same sort of problem. I entered Brewtime's recipe into BrewToad and it is giving me 49 IBU. Pretty close to your problem. I am not sure with the whirlpool process in homebrewing, either. I entered the whirlpool hops as flameout additions. I'd really like to make this beer, but I don't want it to come out at 49 IBU's, as that would be pretty far from cloning this beer. Here is a link to my Brewtoad version of Brewtime's post from the kit : https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/raging-bitch-1 If anyone has any input or advice on what's wrong here, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the post, Brewtime, and IslandLizard I am having the same sort of problem. I entered Brewtime's recipe into BrewToad and it is giving me 49 IBU. Pretty close to your problem. I am not sure with the whirlpool process in homebrewing, either. I entered the whirlpool hops as flameout additions. I'd really like to make this beer, but I don't want it to come out at 49 IBU's, as that would be pretty far from cloning this beer. Here is a link to my Brewtoad version of Brewtime's post from the kit : https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/raging-bitch-1 If anyone has any input or advice on what's wrong here, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

FO and whirlpool hops are not calculated as adding any bittering to the beer, since they're not being boiled, which may not be entirely correct. I'm sure there is some bittering taking place, mainly as bitter flavor extraction from the hops themselves. Ever eat a small piece of a hop pellet?

Fermentation had been going slowly for the entire 4 weeks and finally ended last week. I racked to a keg 3 days ago and started the dry hop with 2 oz Amarillo in a weighted, fine mesh hop bag. I agitated well during the first day while force carbing at the same time, since I needed some finished beer to be ready for Saturday's picnic party.

The racking sample (before dry hopping) tasted really good, quite bitter and slightly boozy. FG = 1.010! It's hard to judge the IBUs, but I'd say well in the 60s. A very assertive IPA with nice Belgian fruity ester notes.

After a day of agitated* dry hopping and force carbing (35psi) at room temps (75°F) I chilled the keg for 12 hours to 32°F to drop out all suspended hop particles that escaped through the fine mesh, as well as some of the suspended yeast. I didn't have the luxury of time to cold crash and drop the yeast before starting the dry hopping, which is undoubtedly a better technique, losing less flavor and aroma to the crashing yeast.

*Agitation by rolling the keg back and forth for a minute every hour or so while laying on its side.

Instead of tapping the keg, from the bottom, I purposely wanted to siphon from the clear top to prevent the fall out from dry hopping getting into my growlers.
So once at 32°F, I sanitized and opened the keg lid and siphoned out, from the top, ice cold, fairly clear dry hopped Raging Bitch into two 64oz frozen growlers. There was very little foaming and lots of CO2 remained in solution. Bottling carbed beer at these temps is the way to go!

The growler beer still has a bit of a hop bite from the dry hopping and also could have used a longer dry hop time. In a week it will be much smoother.

The keg itself is still dry hopping for another 3-4 days. I'm sure the result will be a very good and well balanced Raging Bitch "Clone."