IPA Recipe, looking for feedback

[Gravity]

Its been a while since i've brewed an IPA, and I recently had one at a local brewery while driving through a town that inspired me to make one. I should have asked about grain bill, hops used...etc...but didn't, to busy having a good time with beer in hand. It was a west coast style, juicy, tropical, citrusy, with grapefruit the more dominant flavor/aroma with some pine and little resin/dank.

It reminded me a little bit of Sculpin IPA or maybe even Space Dust from Elysian. I can clone either or beer, or even call the place but i'd prefer to take stab at at it knowing that the beer I brew will probably turn out really good either way

With that flavor profile in mind I made two recipes, both have the same grain bill, but with slightly different hop combos. This is for a 5g (20L) batch that i will eventually scale up to 20g (80L)

1) With the first hop schedule, I went with CTZ as the bittering hop for a touch of resin/dank, and with a ratio of 2:1 Amarillo to Simcoe. I think this is a good hop pairing, especially because simcoe supports amarillo in flavor profile and doesn't over power it in a 2:1 ratio. The flame out and dry hopping with Amarillo will drive home that tropical, citrus aroma and flavor.

Estimated OG: 1.064 SG (6.5% abv)
Estimated Color: 6.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 70.0 IBUs

Ingredients:
------------
Amt
11 lbs Pale Malt (Weyermann) (3.3 SRM)
6.7 oz Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)
6.7 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM)
0.85 oz Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) [15.50 %]
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 30.0 min
0.21 oz Simcoe - Boil 30.0 min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 15.0 min
0.21 oz Simcoe - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop 3- 5 Days

2) Recipe #2 uses the same grain bill as above with the following hop schedule. This hop schedule uses magnum, which is more a cleaner bittering hop, and would let the Amarillo/Chinook shine at bit more also at a 2:1 ratio. I'm not sure how this pairing would work out but i think chinook would offer a good pine/resin backdrop without overwhelming amarillo in the same 2:1 ratio.

0.85 oz Magnum @ 60min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 30.0 min
0.21 oz Chinook - Boil 30.0 min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 15.0 min
0.21 oz Chinook - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop 3- 5 Days

Any thoughts would be appreciated, either to the grain bill or to the hop schedule, or you might even have a different hop pairing that imparts similar flavor profile like citra/mosaic. As long as the brew is in the ball park, I would be happy.

Cheers

 

[Gravity]

Its been a while since i've brewed an IPA, and I recently had one at a local brewery while driving through a town that inspired me to make one. I should have asked about grain bill, hops used...etc...but didn't, to busy having a good time with beer in hand. It was a west coast style, juicy, tropical, citrusy, with grapefruit the more dominant flavor/aroma with some pine and little resin/dank.

It reminded me a little bit of Sculpin IPA or maybe even Space Dust from Elysian. I can clone either or beer, or even call the place but i'd prefer to take stab at at it knowing that the beer I brew will probably turn out really good either way

With that flavor profile in mind I made two recipes, both have the same grain bill, but with slightly different hop combos. This is for a 5g (20L) batch that i will eventually scale up to 20g (80L)

1) With the first hop schedule, I went with CTZ as the bittering hop for a touch of resin/dank, and with a ratio of 2:1 Amarillo to Simcoe. I think this is a good hop pairing, especially because simcoe supports amarillo in flavor profile and doesn't over power it in a 2:1 ratio. The flame out and dry hopping with Amarillo will drive home that tropical, citrus aroma and flavor.

Estimated OG: 1.064 SG (6.5% abv)
Estimated Color: 6.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 70.0 IBUs

Ingredients:
------------
Amt
11 lbs Pale Malt (Weyermann) (3.3 SRM)
6.7 oz Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)
6.7 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM)
0.85 oz Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) [15.50 %]
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 30.0 min
0.21 oz Simcoe - Boil 30.0 min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 15.0 min
0.21 oz Simcoe - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop 3- 5 Days

2) Recipe #2 uses the same grain bill as above with the following hop schedule. This hop schedule uses magnum, which is more a cleaner bittering hop, and would let the Amarillo/Chinook shine at bit more also at a 2:1 ratio. I'm not sure how this pairing would work out but i think chinook would offer a good pine/resin backdrop without overwhelming amarillo in the same 2:1 ratio.

0.85 oz Magnum @ 60min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 30.0 min
0.21 oz Chinook - Boil 30.0 min
0.42 oz Amarillo - Boil 15.0 min
0.21 oz Chinook - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop 3- 5 Days

Any thoughts would be appreciated, either to the grain bill or to the hop schedule, or you might even have a different hop pairing that imparts similar flavor profile like citra/mosaic. As long as the brew is in the ball park, I would be happy.

Cheers

Went with this hop combo/schedule after some tinkering - this is for a 80L (20g) batch, same grain bill

One of the best brew sessions i've had in a while.

Lets see how this bad boy turns out

2.00 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 19.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min 9.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min 6.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min 6.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min 5.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 3.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 3.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

 

[Jag75]

Just speaking from my experience , I dont bother with a 30 min hop addition. I've been doing 60 , 10 , fo and wp

 

[day_trippr]

Same here...

Cheers!

 

[Gravity]

I got rid of the 30 min addition, moved it to 20,
so it was; 60, 20, 10, fo, dh

If i were do this brew again, which i probably will, it will be:
60, 10, fo, wp, dh

I've been doing a lot of wp additions lately.

Any thoughts on the revised hop combo?

 

[marc1]

Seems kind of low on hops for a modern IPA, although west coast certainly uses less than NEIPA.
Let us know how it comes out!

 

[Gravity]

Seems kind of low on hops for a modern IPA, although west coast certainly uses less than NEIPA.
Let us know how it comes out!

I was aiming for 70 IBUs, and initially had it at that when i was bittering with .85oz of CTZ (3oz CTZ with the scaled version), but some of the hoppiest and best beers i've made have been surprising low in IBUs. The late and FO/WP additions have really been driving him the hop flavor and aroma for me

Matter of fact i was reading on the Bells website that ibus don't tell the whole story of hoppy beers, as its more to help guide homebrewers clone — see screenshot from their website about why they don't list IBUs for their beers

But hey, we shall see, 3 days in and its chugging away nicely.

 

[marc1]

I was aiming for 70 IBUs, and initially had it at that when i was bittering with .85oz of CTZ (3oz CTZ with the scaled version), but some of the hoppiest and best beers i've made have been surprising low in IBUs. The late and FO/WP additions have really been driving him the hop flavor and aroma for me

Matter of fact i was reading on the Bells website that ibus don't tell the whole story of hoppy beers, as its more to help guide homebrewers clone — see screenshot from their website about why they don't list IBUs for their beers

View attachment 707099

But hey, we shall see, 3 days in and its chugging away nicely.

I completely agree. 70 ibu is fine.
Except for the bittering hops, I would have used closer to the amounts for your 20 gallon batch for 6 gallons.

For 6 gallons of an IPA, I'd have put the 2oz Amarillo/ 1oz chinook/1oz Simcoe at 15 and then again at flame out, and then dry hopped with 3-4oz Amarillo. Calculated ibus and then added bittering to the recipe to achieve 70. Or upped the 15 minute addition until 70 ibus.
But that's what's nice about homebrewing, everyone can make exactly what they want!

 

[couchsending]

This is not nearly enough hops for anything that resembles an IPA brewed today. Minimum Dry Hop for even the “standard“ IPAs like Sculpin, Space Dust, Blind Pig, or whatever you favorite commercially available “craft” IPA is 1.5 - 2 lbs/bbl. That equates to 6oz of dry hops in a 6 gallon batch. Most “modern” IPAs you’ll find now are dry hopped with almost twice that amount. So for 20g you’d be looking for at least 16-20oz

Worrying about what varieties you use in the kettle and when is almost a waste of time honestly. Very little of the flavor/aroma contributions will even make it through fermentation, especially with Amarillo. Studies have shown recently that it contains some of the lowest levels of compounds that will make it into the final beer if added on the hotside. Simcoe is a good hotside hop as it does contain a decent amount of “survivable” compounds. Chinook is kinda in the middle.

I’m one who has actually gone to ditching a 90 or 60 minute addition in favor of adding a larger charge at 30 to get IBUs but not have vegetal material boiling for 90 or 60 and more more “survivable” compounds make it into the final beer. The Thiol 3MH is shown to actually increase in the boil. It increases substantially up to 30 minutes of boiling and continues to increase slightly up to 60 minutes but the difference between 30 and 60 is minimal. Thiols have crazy low aroma thresholds and have a huge impact in the aroma of finishes beer.. much more so than a lot of the oils and monoterpene alcohols that people have so often been focused on. A hop with low oil content but high thiol content can have a much larger impact than a hop with 3x the oil content but low thiols.

I do a 30 minute addition, a 10 or 15 minute addition, and then a 180 WP or Hopback addition. Then hit it with dry hops... lots of them.

 

[RCope]

I’m one who has actually gone to ditching a 90 or 60 minute addition in favor of adding a larger charge at 30 to get IBUs but not have vegetal material boiling for 90 or 60 and more more “survivable” compounds make it into the final beer.

Do you do that for a West Coast IPA (or beer other than NEIPA) with standard bittering hops such as Magnum or Warrior?

 

[couchsending]

Do you do that for a West Coast IPA (or beer other than NEIPA) with standard bittering hops such as Magnum or Warrior?

I wouldn’t use Magnum or Warrior necessarily at 30. I try to use a specific hop that is smooth bittering but also will have a more lasting impact when used at that time. I’ve just gone away from adding hops at 60 and 90 in general unless it’s for a more traditional Pils with lower alpha hops.

I would use extract, and used to, but it’s really inefficient on the Homebrew scale as the surface to volume ratio is pretty bad so it tends to just stick to the sides of the kettle.

Personally I just try to make the best hoppy beer I can. They might be hazy but they don’t use wheat or oats generally, they’re soft, but with bitterness and are light on the palate. It’s just hoppy beer, not “NEIPA” or “WCIPA” or whatever.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]
I would use extract, and used to, but it’s really inefficient on the Homebrew scale as the surface to volume ratio is pretty bad so it tends to just stick to the sides of the kettle.[...]

I used ctz extract exactly once and immediately noticed that kettle coating thing. That was it for me wrt hop extracts...

Cheers!

 

[Gravity]

I completely agree. 70 ibu is fine.
Except for the bittering hops, I would have used closer to the amounts for your 20 gallon batch for 6 gallons.

For 6 gallons of an IPA, I'd have put the 2oz Amarillo/ 1oz chinook/1oz Simcoe at 15 and then again at flame out, and then dry hopped with 3-4oz Amarillo. Calculated ibus and then added bittering to the recipe to achieve 70. Or upped the 15 minute addition until 70 ibus.
But that's what's nice about homebrewing, everyone can make exactly what they want!

There is still time to dry hop - its only been fermenting about 4 days, so i might up the DH additions

the 15 min addition makes sense as well as the FO, i usally do 20 min onwards for any late addition hops, unless i'm doing something specific.

I'm excited, it should turn out really good

 

[Gravity]

This is not nearly enough hops for anything that resembles an IPA brewed today. Minimum Dry Hop for even the “standard“ IPAs like Sculpin, Space Dust, Blind Pig, or whatever you favorite commercially available “craft” IPA is 1.5 - 2 lbs/bbl. That equates to 6oz of dry hops in a 6 gallon batch. Most “modern” IPAs you’ll find now are dry hopped with almost twice that amount. So for 20g you’d be looking for at least 16-20oz

Worrying about what varieties you use in the kettle and when is almost a waste of time honestly. Very little of the flavor/aroma contributions will even make it through fermentation, especially with Amarillo. Studies have shown recently that it contains some of the lowest levels of compounds that will make it into the final beer if added on the hotside. Simcoe is a good hotside hop as it does contain a decent amount of “survivable” compounds. Chinook is kinda in the middle.

I’m one who has actually gone to ditching a 90 or 60 minute addition in favor of adding a larger charge at 30 to get IBUs but not have vegetal material boiling for 90 or 60 and more more “survivable” compounds make it into the final beer. The Thiol 3MH is shown to actually increase in the boil. It increases substantially up to 30 minutes of boiling and continues to increase slightly up to 60 minutes but the difference between 30 and 60 is minimal. Thiols have crazy low aroma thresholds and have a huge impact in the aroma of finishes beer.. much more so than a lot of the oils and monoterpene alcohols that people have so often been focused on. A hop with low oil content but high thiol content can have a much larger impact than a hop with 3x the oil content but low thiols.

I do a 30 minute addition, a 10 or 15 minute addition, and then a 180 WP or Hopback addition. Then hit it with dry hops... lots of them.

interesting...do you have a link to that research, i'd be interested. This wast meant to be a super hoppy IPA but i can see how some modern IPA have endless amounts of dry hops..etc...

do you have an example of a hop with these traits? --> " A hop with low oil content but high thiol content can have a much larger impact than a hop with 3x the oil content but low thiols."

I've skipped the 60min additions before and instead have done 30...i noticed only a slight difference...not enough to worry about really, the later additions/fo/wp/dh i think is where i have noticed the most discernible differences

 

[couchsending]

interesting...do you have a link to that research, i'd be interested. This wast meant to be a super hoppy IPA but i can see how some modern IPA have endless amounts of dry hops..etc...

do you have an example of a hop with these traits? --> " A hop with low oil content but high thiol content can have a much larger impact than a hop with 3x the oil content but low thiols."

I've skipped the 60min additions before and instead have done 30...i noticed only a slight difference...not enough to worry about really, the later additions/fo/wp/dh i think is where i have noticed the most discernible differences

Even IPAs that I wouldn’t consider “hoppy” or “overly hoppy” have as much as 10x that dry hop rate. Bell’s 2 Hearted is at least 1#/bbl DH so that would be 10oz in 20 gallons. I don’t know if you’d even notice the 1oz addition honestly.

As far as research goes here’s some light reading.

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf
https://www.johnihaas.com/library/hop-science-newsletter-january-2018/
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ewing-Processes.pdf?origin=publication_detail
http://scottjanish.com/survivables-unpacking-hot-side-hop-flavor/

 

[Gravity]

Even IPAs that I wouldn’t consider “hoppy” or “overly hoppy” have as much as 10x that dry hop rate. Bell’s 2 Hearted is at least 1#/bbl DH so that would be 10oz in 20 gallons. I don’t know if you’d even notice the 1oz addition honestly.

As far as research goes here’s some light reading.

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf
https://www.johnihaas.com/library/hop-science-newsletter-january-2018/
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ewing-Processes.pdf?origin=publication_detail
http://scottjanish.com/survivables-unpacking-hot-side-hop-flavor/

cool — i'll take read
Thanks a alot