quick question

[glenparc]

I made the coopers ale a little while ago and it called for something like 23 litres, I can't remember what it actually was, but I only put 20 in there. Is it vital that it's exact to the recipe? does less water mean more alcohol? Im new to homebrewing, It's probably a stupid question but im just curious.

 

[glenparc]

Anybody?

 

[Hex23]

Generally speaking ... Less water will mean higher gravity, which means higher alcohol %, but you will have less total beer volume.

More specifically, it will change the balance of the beer. In your example, it would probably be noticeable, but as long as you do everything else well, it will probably still be a good beer. That alone won't "ruin" your beer.

 

[Pie_Man]

With the same amount of extract, less water means a higher original gravity (OG), basically the same amount of sugar in less water, so a higher concentration leads to a higher OG.

With a higher OG, you have more potential for higher alcohol, but it's not a gurantee as OG is only half of the alcohol calculation. The other half being final gravity (FG). ABV% = (OG - FG)*131. Likely, you will have a little more alcohol, that will ultimately depend on how much sugar the yeast consume.

 

[glenparc]

Ok, i thought so. Just wanted to be sure. Thanks

 

[Mozart]

Less water won't mean more alcohol. Alcohol production depends on the amount of sugar made available to the yeast, and how well the yeast do at converting said sugar into alcohol.

Note, while the total amount of alcohol won't change, alcohol by volume will increase because the volume decreased. Given that you undershot volume by roughly 10-15% or so, your abv will, everything else being equal, be about 10-15% higher.

By having your final volume be about 20 liters instead of 23, all you've done is made a slightly concentrated batch of the beer you intended to brew in the first place. That kind of small volume difference isn't critical -- you'll just wind up with something a little different.

 

[glenparc]

Alright, thanks for the feedback. The last batch I made was the coopers ipa with additional hops, but it came out to roughly 3.8% which is really low for an ipa. Im thinking I pitched the yeast to late or the temperature was a little high, not 100% what happened. I didn't want the same thing to happen to this one so I tried to somewhat alter it. Hope it turns out ok

 

[Hex23]

Alright, thanks for the feedback. The last batch I made was the coopers ipa with additional hops, but it came out to roughly 3.8% which is really low for an ipa. Im thinking I pitched the yeast to late or the temperature was a little high, not 100% what happened. I didn't want the same thing to happen to this one so I tried to somewhat alter it. Hope it turns out ok

Well if you know that it was 3.8%, you clearly know the OG and FG (unless you sent it off for lab analysis!). So you have a starting point for the diagnosis. Was it low OG, high FG, or maybe both? If you're not fully attenuating you've got other problems that concentrating is not going to fix and could even make worse.

 

[Pie_Man]

Do you add extra water after the boil to reach your final volume? That solution has to be mixed extremely well to get an accurate gravity reading. With extract beers, you can easily approximate your og based off the amount of extract added and volume.

 

[glenparc]

Well if you know that it was 3.8%, you clearly know the OG and FG (unless you sent it off for lab analysis!). So you have a starting point for the diagnosis. Was it low OG, high FG, or maybe both? If you're not fully attenuating you've got other problems that concentrating is not going to fix and could even make worse.

The ipa was my first ever batch. The OG was 1.035 and FG was 1.006. If I did the calculations right it was 3.8% abv. I also used tap water with that batch. Could it have been that?

 

[glenparc]

Do you add extra water after the boil to reach your final volume? That solution has to be mixed extremely well to get an accurate gravity reading. With extract beers, you can easily approximate your og based off the amount of extract added and volume.

I made sure everything was mixed properly

 

[Hex23]

Your attenuation is fine. It's at least 82% if your FG measurement is right. But as Pie Man points out, top off extract batches are notoriusly difficult to measure OG. Better to just calculate expected OG. If your volumes are correct, then it will be more accurate. You may have made a beer higher than 3.8% ABV

 

[Hex23]

I made sure everything was mixed properly

Sometimes you have to mix like mad to get it to even out. If you know your ingredients and are confident in your top-off volume, you can see whether you had a mixing problem.

 

[glenparc]

Your attenuation is fine. It's at least 82% if your FG measurement is right. But as Pie Man points out, top off extract batches are notoriusly difficult to measure OG. Better to just calculate expected OG. If your volumes are correct, then it will be more accurate. You may have made a beer higher than 3.8% ABV

How would you calculate the expected OG? Thanks a lot for your help by the way

 

[Pie_Man]

Please post the recipe, particularly the grain bill.

 

[FatDragon]

The ipa was my first ever batch. The OG was 1.035 and FG was 1.006. If I did the calculations right it was 3.8% abv. I also used tap water with that batch. Could it have been that?

Did you measure the OG at an appropriate temperature? I measured my pre-boil gravity from my second batch (first all-grain and also first where I had an unbroken hydrometer to read with) and got 1.033 when I should have been around 1.057. Turns out I was reading about 80 degrees too high and that threw off the numbers by a huge margin.

 

[glenparc]

Did you measure the OG at an appropriate temperature? I measured my pre-boil gravity from my second batch (first all-grain and also first where I had an unbroken hydrometer to read with) and got 1.033 when I should have been around 1.057. Turns out I was reading about 80 degrees too high and that threw off the numbers by a huge margin.

Wow I didn't even realize that could happen. Maybe that's why it seemed off. Thanks!

 

[Pie_Man]

Yes, hydrometers are calibrated at a certain temperature, probably 15C, or maybe 20C. You have to adjust the reading dependent on the temperature. If the liquid is above 38C, the reading is pretty much worthless. Your hydrometer should have come with instructions and a temperature correction chart. If not, a google search will point you to hydrometer correction calculators. You should know what temperature it is calibrated to though.

If you post your grainbill and your volume into the fermenter, we can easily calculate your expected OG.

 

[glenparc]

Yes, hydrometers are calibrated at a certain temperature, probably 15C, or maybe 20C. You have to adjust the reading dependent on the temperature. If the liquid is above 38C, the reading is pretty much worthless. Your hydrometer should have come with instructions and a temperature correction chart. If not, a google search will point you to hydrometer correction calculators. You should know what temperature it is calibrated to though.

If you post your grainbill and your volume into the fermenter, we can easily calculate your expected OG.

I didn't use grain, just the canned ipa. I added the dextrose, then the coopers kit, waited for a slow boil, added some hop pellets, let it mix all together. Poured water in the primary, dumped in the wort. Topped up to 23 litres and stirred it. Then steeped some more hops inside the wort for a couple minutes (maybe thats where I went wrong?) Took temp, checked hydrometer (1.035) then pitched the yeast. Added airlock and all that. That's it. What are your thoughts?

 

[Pie_Man]

Dude, this is like pulling teeth. Please post the recipe. How much extract did you use? Indicate DME and LME separately. In your case, it's probably just LME, liquid malt extract. Also, how much dextrose?

I know you didn't use grain, it's an extract beer, grainbill is just the phrase for your fermentables.

 

[glenparc]

Dude, this is like pulling teeth. Please post the recipe. How much extract did you use? Indicate DME and LME separately. In your case, it's probably just LME, liquid malt extract. Also, how much dextrose?

I know you didn't use grain, it's an extract beer, grainbill is just the phrase for your fermentables.

Sorry, this is all very new to me. I used 1kg dextrose with 2 litres of water and used the whole can of the LME (1.7kg). I hope this helps

 

[Pie_Man]

So, sugar and premade extract has a estimatable amount gravity it contributes, expressed as gravity points per gallon (ppg) (I know the unit in gallon values, so I'll convert to points per liters from there). The more water you add, the more diluted the sugar concentration, the lower your gravity and vice versa.

Step one, convert points per gallon to points per liter (ppl), 8.3454 x ppg = L°/kg. Source: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter3-4.html

Dextrose contributes 44 ppg, or 8.3453 * 44 = 367 ppl
LME contributes 36 ppg, or 8.3453 * 36 = 300 ppl
1kg of Dextrose x 367 ppl = 367 total gravity points from dextrose
1.7kg of LMW X 300 = 3.75 X 36 = 510 gravity points from LME
367 + 510 = 877 total gravity points

877 total gravity points / 21 liters (your total volume into the fermenter) ~ 42 , so your OG should have been 1.042.

Fairly close to what you got with your hydrometer, but probably off because you didn't temperature correct your hydrometer reading and/or dillution of your hydrometer sample from the top off water.

I hope this helps

 

[glenparc]

So, sugar and premade extract has a estimatable amount gravity it contributes, expressed as gravity points per gallon (ppg) (I know the unit in gallon values, so I'll convert to points per liters from there). The more water you add, the more diluted the sugar concentration, the lower your gravity and vice versa.

Step one, convert points per gallon to points per liter (ppl), 8.3454 x ppg = L°/kg. Source: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter3-4.html

Dextrose contributes 44 ppg, or 8.3453 * 44 = 367 ppl
LME contributes 36 ppg, or 8.3453 * 36 = 300 ppl
1kg of Dextrose x 367 ppl = 367 total gravity points from dextrose
1.7kg of LMW X 300 = 3.75 X 36 = 510 gravity points from LME
367 + 510 = 877 total gravity points

877 total gravity points / 21 liters (your total volume into the fermenter) ~ 42 , so your OG should have been 1.042.

Close to what you got with your hydrometer, but probably off because you didn't temperature correct your hydrometer reading and/or dillution of your hydrometer sample from the top off water.

I hope this helps

Thanks for being patient with me lol. It's obviously a lot to take in when your new to this but you definitely helped. Thanks so much!

 

[HopSong]

My experience with the Coopers kits are that they produce a beer that is too low in alcohol.. i.e. real session beers. They were ok.. but, once you get a few under your belt, you might want to check out what an IPA, for instance, should be for an ABV range and ramp up the kit with either a little LME or DME. That said, if you like kits for getting your feet wet, I've found Brewers Best to be pretty darn good. Northern Brewer, Midwest and Austin all produce good kits. My all time favorite extract kits come from MoreBeer in CA. I think they've done their research on them.. not to say the others haven't. They have inexpensive and more expensive kits based on ingredients.. pull the trigger on what floats your boat One thing about their kits is that they are FRESH.. Haven't been sitting around a long time. Time has an effect on extract and hops. Same with yeast.

Regarding using tap water. Might be ok.. depending the makeup of your water. If you use tap water, you'll want to either boil it ahead of time or use a Camden tablet to remove chlorine or chloramines, depending on what your city uses You'll gain more experience with this part of brewing.. for some (me included) it's really a learning process.. but I'm an old fart and am a visual learner.. don't do book learning very well.

Some of my first beers used RO water.. left a bit to be desired. Then I went with 1/2 tap and 1/2 tap water.. that was much better. I going to try a few batches using spring water. We have a spring about 30 miles away that supplies spring water to a major spring water distributer.. just uphill from where they get it. I've only brewed with it once.. at a National Brew Day and my group's extract beer was the favorite of all the beers.. both all grain and extract... that may say something.. Purchasing water can be expensive. One place I can get this spring water is at the Dollar Store.. $1/g.. Possibly using a mix of spring water and dechlorinated tap water will be good for your process. Fortunately, you are brewing extract right now so you don't have to worry about chemistry.

Sometimes, even with extract brewing, adding a tsp of gypsum helps beers like IPA and APA's.. different for malty beers tho.

Keep at it.. you'll make beer.. and each batch will be better.

 

[glenparc]

My experience with the Coopers kits are that they produce a beer that is too low in alcohol.. i.e. real session beers. They were ok.. but, once you get a few under your belt, you might want to check out what an IPA, for instance, should be for an ABV range and ramp up the kit with either a little LME or DME. That said, if you like kits for getting your feet wet, I've found Brewers Best to be pretty darn good. Northern Brewer, Midwest and Austin all produce good kits. My all time favorite extract kits come from MoreBeer in CA. I think they've done their research on them.. not to say the others haven't. They have inexpensive and more expensive kits based on ingredients.. pull the trigger on what floats your boat One thing about their kits is that they are FRESH.. Haven't been sitting around a long time. Time has an effect on extract and hops. Same with yeast.

Regarding using tap water. Might be ok.. depending the makeup of your water. If you use tap water, you'll want to either boil it ahead of time or use a Camden tablet to remove chlorine or chloramines, depending on what your city uses You'll gain more experience with this part of brewing.. for some (me included) it's really a learning process.. but I'm an old fart and am a visual learner.. don't do book learning very well.

Some of my first beers used RO water.. left a bit to be desired. Then I went with 1/2 tap and 1/2 tap water.. that was much better. I going to try a few batches using spring water. We have a spring about 30 miles away that supplies spring water to a major spring water distributer.. just uphill from where they get it. I've only brewed with it once.. at a National Brew Day and my group's extract beer was the favorite of all the beers.. both all grain and extract... that may say something.. Purchasing water can be expensive. One place I can get this spring water is at the Dollar Store.. $1/g.. Possibly using a mix of spring water and dechlorinated tap water will be good for your process. Fortunately, you are brewing extract right now so you don't have to worry about chemistry.

Sometimes, even with extract brewing, adding a tsp of gypsum helps beers like IPA and APA's.. different for malty beers tho.

Keep at it.. you'll make beer.. and each batch will be better.

I've done two cooper kits so far, an ipa and an ale (in primary). I've looked into the kits from brewers best but they are almost twice as much as the coopers. Id love to try one of there kits but they're kind of pricey. Maybe I'll do one when the ales finished.

The first beer I made was all tap water, and the second I used all spring water. Still waiting to try the ale, I've got high hopes for it

 

[HopSong]

Yep, as I mentioned about the kits at MoreBeer.. the price goes up as the ingredients accumulate.. Coopers (at least the ones I've done) are extract only. Brewers Best adds a few things.. like grains, hop sacs, bottle caps and a few other things as I remember.