Pumpkin Dunkel Decoction Question

[kgranger]

I want to brew this recipe from brewingtv:

http://brewingtv.com/recipe/2011/3/...hundchen-zweimaschverfahren-dunkel-kelle.html

but I want to make it a pumpkin dunkel, so I was going to add about 6 pounds or so of pumpkin puree to the decoction mash. My question is: should i subtract any amount of grain because of the pumpkins sugars, and should I even put the pumpkin through a decoction mash? I've always liked the results of pumpkin puree in the mash vs. late addition or steeping. I just don't know if the boiling will affect it.

 

[Roundhouse]

I've struck out on pumpkin recipes more than I've been successful. The few that did work for me though used Pumpkin puree in a muslin bag straight in the boil. I've never gotten good results with adding it to the mash. However, adding it to a decoction and boiling it or a part of it could be interesting. Just try it. See what happens!

 

[giraffe]

Strangely, I havent done pumpkin, but I have done other starchy vegetables, so take this advice with a grain of salt, and hopefully someone with more knowledge will reply.

If the pumpkin is not cooked, Id do a cereal mash first. Im assuming though it had to be boiled to be pureed. Then id add it too the mash- you can decoct it, it should just extract more sugars from it.

6 lbs of pumpkin should add significant sugars and gravity. As long as you do a long enough mash to convert the starches. You may need to add enzymes. How much gravity, seems to be a matter of debate. Id remove approximately 1-2 lbs of base malt, if it was me. Or remove none, and aim for the lower end of OG youd find acceptable.

Pureed pumpkin will be gummy. You need to do something to avoid a stuck sparge. Rice hulls?

 

[kgranger]

Thanks for all the advice! And yes rice hulls would be a good idea.
Ill try the pumpkin in the mash to see if it works.
Also i've never added enzyme supplements to a batch before, so what in particular would you add? I'm slowly reading about enzyme and nutrient additions.

 

[lostcheesehead]

I think giraffe is onto something. I have been doing a lot of research on starchy foods to use in brewing, and I think a cereal mash is the key. However, I think that if you use pumpkin from the can (which has already been cooked/gelatinized) I don't think you will get any benefit from the cereal mashing process, and you would have to add enzymes if you wanted to extract pumpkin fermentables. So I would recommend using raw pumpkin and do a cereal mash (no additional enzymes needed). If nothing else, I will be doing this method later this year, so I will report the results, but if you wind up doing it, too, please share what happened!

 

[giraffe]

You are adding 6 lbs of non malt to the mash. Thats probably about 40% of the mash. And if its a dunkel, you are using munich malts, which have less extra conversion power. There may not be enough enzymes in the mash to convert everything. So id add a-amalayse, or termamyl, or similar, your LHBS should have something (it will also make the decoctions go a lot quicker, if you add some at each decoctions, sac rest- as you arent going to have to wait 60-90 minutes for conversion in each decoction, 10-15 should do the trick).

Also peptic enzyme may or may not be useful to help break down the pumpkins starches to a form that is easier for the mash enzymes to break down, but im not sure.

 

[kgranger]

I was thinking about using pure pumpkin from a can - and I'm not sure if when it was made it was boiled to be pureed or not - but from my understanding of a cereal mash, do you think that the process of a decoction mash would achieve this "sach rest then boil" method that a cereal mash would do for the pumpkin?

So basically I could simply add the canned pumpkin puree to the mash with the rest of the grain and proceed with the decoction to get every last goodie out of the pumpkin. Maybe I could even add the pumpkin with the first decoction to make sure that all of the pumpkin gets boiled instead of just what is in the amount I remove for the step. Thoughts?

 

[kgranger]

And whatever I do I will surely post pics and notes

 

[giraffe]

Canned pumpkin is cooked. So it should be fine.

 

[kgranger]

Cool, Ill give it a shot.

And as far as the recipe goes, I mean my plan was to brew the recipe in the link above pretty much exactly except add pumpkin, maybe remove a pound or two of munich, and some typical pumpkin ale spices. I really want to try and not make just another pumpkin ale, but have it be characteristically dunkel with a good pumpkin note. Not too subtle, not too heavy. Maybe less pumpkin?

 

[giraffe]

I dont think pumpkin is going to be very overpowering, Id leave it. Use a very delicate hand with the spicing, that is where it is far more important to show restraint.

 

[TheHungryArchitect]

I just brewed this recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/dunkelweizen-64392/

and added about 2lbs canned pumpkin to my mash and then boiled for 60 min with 3g whole cloves, 2 small cinnamon sticks and 3g ground nutmeg.

I strongly suggest using LOTS of rice hulls if you add puree to your mash. I didn't at first and it slowed to a drip and I had to stir in rice hulls after about a half hour of it dripping and going no where.

I'll post the outcomes. I suspect it will be rather subtle on the pumpkin flavour but should have a good amount of spice to it.