Pseudo-Lagers

[TastyAdventure]

I am finally coming around to like certain lagers, very malt forward, German lagers.
Coming up soon i would like to brew an Octoberfest and a Maibock, but I definitely do not have the time or space to lager for a month or more.
I've heard Nottingham does very well at low temps, and of course there's Kolsch yeast...
Does anyone have any suggestions for making a lager with ale yeast, very clean profile, ready to bottle in 3-6 weeks?

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I love 2565 for making kolsch. Takes forever to clear though, like months.

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

I agree a Kolsch yeast is good for mock lagers, otherwise US-05 at very low temps. My fermometer usually reads 52

 

[botigol]

Another option is to use a lager yeast:

"A little-known fact about lager yeasts is that they can be used at ale temperatures. Your beer will be more estery than a standard lager, but will still taste like lager beer. Many times homebrewers who wish to replicate a lager beer at ale temperatures are told to use a clean ale strain (or a “steam” beer strain) of yeast. However, a clean ale does not really taste like a lager. A “dirty” lager, however, will still taste lager-like — it will just have more yeast-derived aroma."

https://byo.com/stories/item/1564-vienna-lager-in-exile

 

[giraffe]

And honestly, if you have good temp control, proper lagers dont take as long as you think. Look up accelerated fermentation for lagers.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

If you dont have good temp control, 2565 or 1007 are your best choices, but they both could use a month of cold conditioning to clear well. Or you can try the san fransisco lager strain. Cal ale and nottingham arent very convincing as fake lager yeasts. Though opinions vary.

 

[beersk]

34/70 or WY2124 at ale temps produces clean results. That'd be my number one suggestion other than a kolsch or albier yeast.

 

[TastyAdventure]

OP update: I just tried my beer made with Munich base, some Caramunich and aromatic malt. OG 1.056, FG 1.011.
I fermented with Nottingham at 62, bumped to 65 after 4 days, then 67 at 6 days.
This beer is extremely clean, lager like at first. As it warms, you can start to tell it is def an Ale, but is still very clean to the last drink.
I'm very happy with this. Next time I'll start it at 58 F and slowly raise to help it attenuate and clean up. Success!

 

[SnakeRidge]

I've had a lot of success with the San Fran lager yeast ( WLP 810) at 58* for my mock lagers.

 

[chickypad]

Pacman is one of my house strains so I use that in the low 60's if I want a pseudo lager, at least seems closer to me than the chico strains or Notty. But at that temp you could go kolsch or 2124.

 

[BigFloyd]

OP update: I just tried my beer made with Munich base, some Caramunich and aromatic malt. OG 1.056, FG 1.011.
I fermented with Nottingham at 62, bumped to 65 after 4 days, then 67 at 6 days.
This beer is extremely clean, lager like at first. As it warms, you can start to tell it is def an Ale, but is still very clean to the last drink.
I'm very happy with this. Next time I'll start it at 58 F and slowly raise to help it attenuate and clean up. Success!

Next time try Nottingham starting at 55*F and pitch an extra packet. After a few days, bump to 60*F for a couple more days then let it finish around 64. That's when you'll see the really clean, lager-ish result that strain is truly capable of at the low end of its range.

 

[TastyAdventure]

Next time try Nottingham starting at 55*F and pitch an extra packet. After a few days, bump to 60*F for a couple more days then let it finish around 64. That's when you'll see the really clean, lager-ish result that strain is truly capable of at the low end of its range.

Nice thanks I'll do just that. I read somewhere before it could do 55... Awesome

 

[TastyAdventure]

Next time try Nottingham starting at 55*F and pitch an extra packet. After a few days, bump to 60*F for a couple more days then let it finish around 64. That's when you'll see the really clean, lager-ish result that strain is truly capable of at the low end of its range.

Nice thanks I'll do just that. I read somewhere before it could do 55... Awesome

 

[Joewalla88]

I've had some good success with 1007.

 

[Joewalla88]

I apparently don't know how the quote option works.

 

[kanzimonson]

While you can make a tasty beer, I don't feel like the fake-lager-kolsch method makes something passable. It tastes like an ale and lacks that "lager character."

Contrary to popular belief, you can make lagers pretty quickly. Pitch low (46-48), ferment 48-52 until the beer shows signs of slowing down, then slowly rise up to 65-68. Allow some time for sulfur to blow off, and then you're good to go. I've make lagers in the 1.055 range that are in the keg in about 2.5 weeks. And I made a 1.080 maibock (FG 1.016) that was on tap in about 3.5 weeks. My expectation for finishing a lager is about double the amount of time it takes an ale of the same gravity.

 

[azazel1024]

While you can make a tasty beer, I don't feel like the fake-lager-kolsch method makes something passable. It tastes like an ale and lacks that "lager character."

Contrary to popular belief, you can make lagers pretty quickly. Pitch low (46-48), ferment 48-52 until the beer shows signs of slowing down, then slowly rise up to 65-68. Allow some time for sulfur to blow off, and then you're good to go. I've make lagers in the 1.055 range that are in the keg in about 2.5 weeks. And I made a 1.080 maibock (FG 1.016) that was on tap in about 3.5 weeks. My expectation for finishing a lager is about double the amount of time it takes an ale of the same gravity.

Agreed. I haven't made many lagers yet, but...

In my limited experience, lagering does help make the beer a little cleaner and certainly helps with clarity soon/faster/better.

That said, if you simply brew with lager yeast at the appropriate temps...once it is bottled even without lagering, it tastes like lager. I've brewed several ales at hybrid temps (both notty and S05) and they might turn out pretty clean at lower temps (56-60F), they still taste like ales to me and not lagers.

Fun experiment if you really want to. Brew the exact same beer, split it between two carboys. Put something like Notty in one and a lager yeast (White labs Pilsner or similar) in the other. Ferment the Notty at 58, then 62, then 68. Ferment the Pilsner one at 48 and then a couple of days to clean up at 68 after all of the krausen has died away. Bottle half of each batch. Then lager BOTH beers for, say, a week at 36F. Then bottle the rest.

Try them. You'll find the differences interesting.

Also another fun experiment (if you can manage to wait that long). Stick a beer (any home brew) in the fridge and forget about it for a few months. Then crack it up. Short of a stout, you can read through the resulting beer (just visiting my in-laws and they had one of my APAs from this past summer in their garage fridge still. Opened it up, and damn man, that thing would ace the clean water act).

 

[Natdavis777]

I like using Cali Lager yeast for quick psudo-lagers. Ive used it a few times on my cream ale recipe (for an American Lager) and a Vienna lager, and both have turned out well.

 

[dfhar]

My 1.050-ish lagers typically ferment at 50 F for 10 days, then up to the mid 60's for 4-5 days, then crash down to 30. I add gelatin to the keg before I rack the beer, and they're clear and carbed a week after that. So that's just under 3.5 weeks grain to glass.

I do find that the beer will continue to improve for another 3-4 weeks after kegging.

 

[kanzimonson]

Agreed. I haven't made many lagers yet, but...

In my limited experience, lagering does help make the beer a little cleaner and certainly helps with clarity soon/faster/better.

That's a contradictory statement to say lagering ("storing") is "sooner/faster." Gelatin (and other finings) is definitely the quickest way to clear a beer.

But I won't deny that some aging will make a lager potentially taste better. Every single beer, discriminant of yeast species, benefits from X amount of aging time. Some more, some NONE!

 

[azazel1024]

I guess the way I wrote it came across as contradictory. I mean lagering in a fermentation vessel before bottling seems to help clarify the beer faster than a similar amount of time lagering in a bottle at the same temperature, regardless of other measures taken to clarify a beer.

In terms of flavor, I don't notice a whole ton of improvement that lagering provides over just being in the bottle that long. I think the simple fact that it is a lager strain and fermented at such a low temperature (relative to ale yeast) is what makes at least 90%, if not more, of the flavor difference.

Of course, I do feel that lagers benefit from several weeks lagered OR in the bottle (or keg I guess, but I don't keg), or a bit of both. My Dopplebock seemed to really hit a sweet spot about 8wks post brew, but was pretty good at 5 wks post brew (which would have been ~2 wks post bottling). My Pilsner is still improving a little and it is roughly 9wks post brew. The Pilsner is lighter in flavor and lower in gravity than the Dopplebock was, but also spent 4 vs 2wks lagering.

I just bottled an English Pale Lager and a Schwarzbier a few days ago. I'll see how they are soon, but both spent 2wks lagering at 38F. They used the same WLP830 German Lager yeast that the Pilsner did (the exact same yeast, since I harvested for both from the Pilsner). I am kind of curious to see if they go through a similar maturation process that the Pilsner did/is going through or not.