Protein Rest Question

[Denny]

Have been doing some additional research and this is what i came up with. The two active enzymes in the protein rest are peptidase and protease. Protease is responsible for the break down of large proteins that cause haze and reduce head retention. In modified malts (which is most malts), these large proteins are ALREADY broken down in the malting process into smaller amino acid chains which aid in head retention and body. The peptidase will break these guys down further into nutes for your yeast. So in short....you end up losing beneficial proteins when you do a protein rest on modified malts, but get healthier yeast...i guess

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/enzymes.html

Of course...there are so many factors in brewing that it might take a professional to notice the difference. But hey...the science is there. Only real way to know is to brew the same beer twice, one with a protein rest and one without, and do a side by side comparison. I dunno if i care enough to do that haha...

Thanks for that. I hadn't had a chance to get back to this yet. In addition ti the science, I'll offer as evidence the beers I've ruined by doing a 122 protein rest with highly modified malts. And it's pretty darn difficult to find any other kind!

 

[frankieboy007]

After adding my 2 cents, Sarge went to Maifest at Frnaconia Brewery in McKinney, TX for the tapping of a Maibock. He was told by the owner, Dennis, that protein rests aren't necessary, as you so stated. Great information from everyone's inputs!!

So how does this affect the use of adjuncts like flaked oats or maize?? Just throw them into the normal mash?? Do a separate cereal mash (heard of them, but never actually tried it)? What are you thoughts or suggestions about those??

 

[craigevo]

Didnt really see an answer to the original question about doing a separate protein rest on just the unmalted grain ? seems easy enough to me to just throw that into a saucepan or your mash tun with a bit of hot water and do a protein rest on that first since that is the only part of the grain that really needs a protein rest. then just mash in the other malted grain at sach temp and throw in the unmalted portion now already protein rested.

This seems to me much easier than having a separate step for the entire volume/grain. You dont have to worry about degrading the head retention proteins in the malted grain then.

 

[frankieboy007]

Sounds like a good idea, but it also makes me think about water volumes for the separate mash, then adding it into the main mash. Maybe Beersmith will calculate this, but I haven't had a chance to sit down with it and run any numbers. FWIW, my grain bill for the cream ale I brewed over the weekend:

4 lbs Pale (6 row US)
3 lbs Pale (2 row US)
2 lbs Flaked Maize
1 lbs Carapils
1 lbs Crystal 10

.5 oz Cascade 60 min
.5 oz Willamette 20 min
.5 oz Cascade 5 min
.5 oz Willamette 5 min

White Labs California Ale, WLP001, harvested from a previous batch of American Amber Ale.

Did a protein rest @ 124 for 20 min, stepped up to 155 for 45, then mashed out @ 168 for 10 min, also sparged at 168. Predicted OG 1.055, actual 1.063, had to add a little more water (half gal) to bring the gravity closer to target, which ended @ 1.059, slightly over for the style. Sample tasted good, clean, no off flavors, but its early, so we'll see. Any thoughts/comments are appreciated.

 

[Denny]

After adding my 2 cents, Sarge went to Maifest at Frnaconia Brewery in McKinney, TX for the tapping of a Maibock. He was told by the owner, Dennis, that protein rests aren't necessary, as you so stated. Great information from everyone's inputs!!

So how does this affect the use of adjuncts like flaked oats or maize?? Just throw them into the normal mash?? Do a separate cereal mash (heard of them, but never actually tried it)? What are you thoughts or suggestions about those??

Again, absolutely unnecessary.

 

[FishNChips]

After adding my 2 cents, Sarge went to Maifest at Frnaconia Brewery in McKinney, TX for the tapping of a Maibock. He was told by the owner, Dennis, that protein rests aren't necessary, as you so stated. Great information from everyone's inputs!!

So how does this affect the use of adjuncts like flaked oats or maize?? Just throw them into the normal mash?? Do a separate cereal mash (heard of them, but never actually tried it)? What are you thoughts or suggestions about those??

My only thought is...would this even do anything if you tried to mash only the flaked grains. Do flaked grains even HAVE any active enzymes? They haven't been malted.

So maybe you would want to throw in a few malted grains just so you could increase the enzyme action.