Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Kent88]

Fair enough. I wasn't really interested in "arguing" either.

I'm an electrical engineer. I was chiming in with the hope that it might help people better understand the promise, and the limits, of the technology as it currently exists. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, although I'm sure it came across that way.

You are an EE, and I'm not a physicist.

I figured I might've sounded like I was arguing earlier and I didn't want to leave it with that impression.

 

[Kent88]

Not exactly EV news, but it's automotive news, so it's in the ballpark:

Chip makers to carmakers: time to get out of the semiconductor Stone Age

 

[Kent88]

Ford Mustang Mach-E passes Michigan State Police test

 

[Broothru]

Ford Mustang Mach-E passes Michigan State Police test

OK, where do I sign up for THAT job? Maybe they'll have some Lightning F-150s as well. I lust for one of those.

 

[Kent88]

 

[Kent88]

5 Midwestern governors agree to create a network to charge electric vehicles

 

[Kent88]

Jeep unveils first-ever Grand Cherokee plug-in electric SUV

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Jeep/Chrysler seem to be about 20 years behind everyone else in the electric auto market

 

[Apple_Jacker]

If Rivian pulls off this launch successfully, they'll be a household name in no time. That truck is pretty slick.

 

[Kent88]

 

[Kent88]

9 in 10 cars now being sold in Norway are electric or hybrid

 

[Kent88]

I want to see this car succeed, but when this is their third completed vehicle and they've been working at it for years, have taken orders, and are suggesting they'll deliver vehicles fairly soon, it doesn't bode well.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Interesting, I never heard of that one before. Is it strictly solar, or can it also be plugged in too?

 

[Kent88]

Interesting, I never heard of that one before. Is it strictly solar, or can it also be plugged in too?

It can be plugged in during road trips or if you aren't getting enough sunlight.

It's air resistance is supposed to be less than the side mirror of an F150. I'm not a physicist, but they're claiming that once the resistance is that low it doesn't take much to propel it, which is why the solar panels can charge it so well, and why it only needs a 110v outlet to charge.

 

[Knightshade]

Dang…I’ve been lusting over a Ram1500 for a couple years now. After watching that Rivian vid, think I have found myself being pulled in another direction.

 

[passedpawn]

For the rest of the 95% of the country BEVs will completely cover their daily mission with less hassle, repairs, maintenance and cost.

I don’t know about the good folks of Evergreen but I’m in this EV thing to save money and time not hug trees. That and be fuel independent by taking advantage of producing my own electrons for a mere fraction the cost of buying gas.

Next time you pay $50-$80 at the pump, remember me tanking up at my house for about 8 dollars.

Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...le-fueling-costs-may-surprise-new-ev-drivers/

 

[Kent88]

Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...le-fueling-costs-may-surprise-new-ev-drivers/
View attachment 747041

"The authors go on to note the significant time costs imposed on EV drivers as a result of both inadequate infrastructure and wait times associated with fueling, which can be five to ten times the cost for ICE drivers."

My personal experience here prompts me to say no...

I plug my car in to standard household current, rarely set it from 8 to 12 amps, most of the charging is done overnight, EV range is rated at 53 miles by the manufacturer, and we rarely use the gas range extender for the 8 months of the year that my wife drives it to work everyday. My current 8 or 9 gallon gas tank has lasted over 2000 miles, which seems pretty typical for summer driving with this vehicle. I haven't had to postpone any driving because I've been low on battery, and since owning it (3 years or so) I can only remember a few times where I left my garage with under 20 miles of charge (edit: this probably isn't fair, as I am not this car's primary driver for much of the year).

I may not be the typical driver, but that's my experience.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...le-fueling-costs-may-surprise-new-ev-drivers/
View attachment 747041

Look at the composition. Driving 100 miles and you spend $9 dollars at a commercial charging station? Driving 100 miles and it takes you 2 hours at a commercial charging station?

This isn't referring to a commuter. This is referring to commercial vehicle applications.

For a typical person who has a typical BEV w/ >100 mile range, and who has a home charger, there is usually no need to use a commercial charging station except on road trips, which are typically infrequent compared to commuting. Even if you have a 50 mile commute, having a typical EV range (200+ miles) allows you to make a 100 mile round trip without requiring any commercial charging stations.

Now, the report is probably highly accurate for the application they're discussing, but that application is not a typical commuter or around-town driver.

So it isn't valid for most people in this thread about "Do you have or plan to get an electric car", because most of us aren't commercial drivers...

 

[MaxStout]

Poll doesn't have a "giving it some thought" button.

We have 2 vehicles, both gas-powered. One is a car for around town, the other a small SUV for road trips and pulling a small camper. An EV would be very practical for the former, and that is what I think EVs are relegated to at this time. As for the long-hauler, the EV technology is not ready for prime time, IMO. We make frequent road trips to CA to visit family there. Usually takes 3 days each way, about 700 miles/day on average. We also do cross-country vacations. The only way I would consider an EV for that is if: 1) It has some power and a range of 600-700 miles, and 2) I can depend on getting an overnight charge at the Holiday Inn Express in Bumfark, Kansas. And pulling a camper--even our 1500lb popup? I'm not yet convinced.

My wife is retired and I'm semi-retired with a home-based solo law practice, so commuting isn't an issue. But I could see us in an EV for the various errands we do around the city. The runaround car (2013 Camry) is about due for trade-in the next year or two, once auto supply chain issues settle down. I would definitely consider an EV to replace that.

 

[Kent88]

Poll doesn't have a "giving it some thought" button.

When you consider the Venn diagram of the poll, it's worth a chuckle

1) it's own thing
2) another "it's own thing"
3) a subset of 2 that is open to migrating to 1
4) a subset of 2 that has no intention of migrating to 1

 

[Kent88]

I wonder how far the typical mail truck, or FedEx/UPS truck goes in a day.

USPS mail delivery trucks used to be done with their routes by mid-afternoon in my experience. Now they might be going a little past 5pm these days. FedEx & UPS usually aren't out too late unless it's late November or December. That's a lot of hours where they sit and do nothing when they could be charging.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

When you consider the Venn diagram of the poll, it's worth a chuckle

1) it's own thing
2) another "it's own thing"
3) a subset of 2 that is open to migrating to 1
4) a subset of 2 that has no intention of migrating to 1

Yeah, I didn't bother answering the poll due to construction. I replied in-thread with my answer, which is basically:

When I bought my last car, a 2014 Ford Flex I bought used in 2017, the EV market wasn't mature enough, particularly for what I needed (7-passenger SUV) that I could realistically buy an EV. The closest thing that existed was the Model X, which was about $50K more than I was willing to spend. When we bought my wife's car, a 2017 RX350 bought in late 2018, it was similar. She likes SUVs that sit high, which ruled out a Model 3, and the Model Y didn't exist, so the only realistic EV was a Model X, at $30K more than we paid for the RX350.

I'm generally a "keep a vehicle 10 years or so" type of guy. I'll likely retire the Flex in 2025-6 when my son goes off to college. At that point I'll be looking VERY hard at an EV. Not sure if I will get one or not, but I'd place it at >50% odds most likely.

So I couldn't pick yes. I could pick "no" but that's potentially a temporary situation. I couldn't pick "I plan to" because my plans for my next vehicle are TBD and it's 5 years away. And I couldn't pick "over my dead body" because I'm not anti-EV. So I just didn't answer.

 

[day_trippr]

We regularly receive mail as late as 3pm, FedEx deliveries as late as 6pm, AMZL and UPS deliveries as late as 9pm.

Still, all that leaves overnight charging...

 

[tracer bullet]

We have 2 vehicles, both gas-powered. One is a car for around town, the other a small SUV for road trips and pulling a small camper. An EV would be very practical for the former, and that is what I think EVs are relegated to at this time.

Similar here, except we have 3. Wife's mini SUV, my fun car, and our normal size SUV. She could use an EV for sure, but her car's not too old, is fuel efficient, and not driven every day. My fun car probably won't turn into one, I like small, powerful, 6 speed, hydraulic steering and brakes, engaging drive, etc. and you can pry it from my cold, dead hands. The normal size SUV I'm actively considering a RAV4 Prime in the next year or two (a PHEV). Battery (advertised 42 mile range) for trips to Target and getting groceries, the times I take it to work. Gas powered option for the road trips to Colorado and across the rest of the US we take sometimes and plan to more frequently as our kid gets older.

 

[Kent88]

After $4 billion deal with Tesla, Hertz says it will rent out half those cars to Uber drivers

This is going to be huge when these vehicles start hitting the used market.

 

[day_trippr]

"Huge" in what manner?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

"Huge" in what manner?

My guess would be that it kickstarts a used market in EVs that barely exists today.

Frankly that's one of my issues with EV today... I prefer to buy low-mileage used vehicles and let someone else take the depreciation hit off the lot. That doesn't really exist in EV today because the used market is so small and EVs are in enough demand relative to supply that I don't think used EVs save you much money. A low-mileage version will cost almost the same as new, and I'm not in a position in my life where I want to take on a used EV vehicle with 80K miles which would be the sold for the same relative level of depreciation as an ICEV with 20-30K miles.

We don't really know how to value used EVs because the market it too small. Start getting a bunch of inventory on the market and let prices settle out to where we understand what a depreciation curve really looks like in market value, and it'll get a lot of people who prefer used vehicles like me, off the fence.

 

[Broothru]

My guess would be that it kickstarts a used market in EVs that barely exists today.

Frankly that's one of my issues with EV today... I prefer to buy low-mileage used vehicles and let someone else take the depreciation hit off the lot. That doesn't really exist in EV today because the used market is so small and EVs are in enough demand relative to supply that I don't think used EVs save you much money. A low-mileage version will cost almost the same as new, and I'm not in a position in my life where I want to take on a used EV vehicle with 80K miles which would be the sold for the same relative level of depreciation as an ICEV with 20-30K miles.

We don't really know how to value used EVs because the market it too small. Start getting a bunch of inventory on the market and let prices settle out to where we understand what a depreciation curve really looks like in market value, and it'll get a lot of people who prefer used vehicles like me, off the fence.

All true, plus the issue of battery depletion and replacement. Big $$$$.

I lucked out and bought my son's 2017 Prius Hybrid. 58k miles. Daughter-in-Law drove it ~100 miles per day down to D.C., but it only had a ~65 mile battery. They parked it outside, so recharging was a hassle, and they soon just used it as an IC mode vehicle. I'm hoping the EV battery bank has "low mileage" life left in it.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

All true, plus the issue of battery depletion and replacement. Big $$$$.

I lucked out and bought my son's 2017 Prius Hybrid. 58k miles. Daughter-in-Law drove it ~100 miles per day down to D.C., but it only had a ~65 mile battery. They parked it outside, so recharging was a hassle, and they soon just used it as an IC mode vehicle. I'm hoping the EV battery bank has "low mileage" life left in it.

Yeah, that's a big issue for me on the "used EV" question too. My understanding from what Tesla is doing is that if you treat the batteries nicely, i.e. try to keep them within 20-80% charge at all times with only limited excursions charging to 100% (such as before a road trip), they don't really have significant depletion issues. Outside of some of the early Nissan Leaf models that didn't have adequate temp control on the batteries, depletion hasn't been a huge problem.

But if you have a used EV and you can't verify the charging history, it brings up some questions. Particularly something for a fleet vehicle / rental vehicle that the company only expects to keep a few years, they have no incentive to charge it nicely.

When I replace my ICEV in 5-6 years, if these questions aren't answered I might buy a brand new car for only the second time in my life.

 

[MaxStout]

I've purchased lots of late-model used gas autos over the years, with good results.

But I'd be leery buying even a late-model used EV, due to the battery question. Did the previous owner take care in the charging cycles, or did they full-charge and deep-discharge? The average owner might not think of that, or care. And fleet vehicles? People tend to care even less about something they don't own.

This appears to me a good instance where getting a new one with full warranty is the safest move. Whatever $$$ I might save buying used could be gobbled up if I have to replace a battery pack. I haven't looked into the typical costs of such repairs, but suspect it wouldn't be cheap.