Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Airborneguy]

Yes it’s amazing the things he has accomplished yet so many can only concentrate on the negative. Also I feel sorry for the people who bet on failure and dumped a bunch of money into shorting Tesla stock. Ouch.

The disconnect comes from having no experience with the system. If I so choose, I can arrive at my friend’s house in 40 minutes having not touched my wheel since leaving my driveway. To the uninitiated, this capability doesn’t exist and they only focus on the polarizing figure who has not accomplished enough for their liking.

 

[mac_1103]

There's a pretty big space between recognizing that Musk has repeatedly promised things he has failed to deliver and saying that he's never done anything.

 

[sibelman]

pretty big space

Also, I giant gap between the big accomplishments of Tesla and SpaceX, on the one hand, and Musk's "contributions" in the public sphere. One can be an important tech innovator and a highly objectionable person - so objectionable that I don't want to buy anything he makes or contribute in any way to his well-being.

 

[mac_1103]

Yeah, Harvey Weinstein is a horrible human being but he made a lot of good movies.

 

[Airborneguy]

That’s my point. Since you guys find him objectionable, you can’t see what has already been achieved.

 

[mac_1103]

Since you guys find him objectionable, you can’t see what has already been achieved.

If this is directed at me, you're clearly wrong. What if I were to say that since you're happy with your Tesla, you refuse to see that he has overpromised and underdelivered a number of times? Would that be accurate? Or perhaps objectionable?

 

[Airborneguy]

If this is directed at me, you're clearly wrong. What if I were to say that since you're happy with your Tesla, you refuse to see that he has overpromised and underdelivered a number of times? Would that be accurate? Or perhaps objectionable?

He definitely has overpromised & under delivered. But the company consists of thousands of engineers and programmers who have delivered a very quality product that works. It just doesn’t work to the “full” in full self driving.

It’s usually very easy to tell in these conversations that people are letting their disdain for musk and their inexperience with the system to cloud their judgments against it.

 

[Airborneguy]

I guess an obvious question here, since no one has ever said it to rebut me is: who has used FSD before and when?

 

[mac_1103]

It’s usually very easy to tell when these conversations that people are letting their the same for musk and they’re inexperience with the system to cloud their judgments against it.

But the recent comments about FSD in this thread have been limited to the overpromising and underdelivering on FSD (and technical criticism of Tesla's approach to FSD, which being technical criticisms, should be debatable without emotion or acrimony). But when a Tesla owner gets defensive about any criticism of Musk/Tesla, he's doing exactly the same thing that you're complaining about.

 

[Airborneguy]

You can criticize Musk all you want. He’s not my family. Why would I care? I’m not defending Musk. I’m defending FSD and positing that you’re allowing your anti-musk opinions to color your analysis of FSD.

 

[Airborneguy]

So again, who has actual experience with FSD besides me?

(And if so, when? Because that matters.)

 

[mac_1103]

I’m defending FSD and positing that you’re allowing your anti-musk opinions to color your analysis of FSD.

I'm not analyzing FSD. I have no experience or technical expertise that would allow me to do so. I'm only discussing the discussion.

 

[Airborneguy]

I'm not analyzing FSD. I have no experience or technical expertise that would allow me to do so. I'm only discussing the discussion.

Then it wasn’t directed at you.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Yes it’s amazing the things he has accomplished yet so many can only concentrate on the negative. Also I feel sorry for the people who bet on failure and dumped a bunch of money into shorting Tesla stock. Ouch.

Shorting a meme stock can be dangerous.

 

[Broothru]

Yeah, Harvey Weinstein is a horrible human being but he made a lot of good movies.

Harvey Weinstein never ‘made’ any great movies. As a “producer” he “facilitated” the environment in which many great movies did get made ($$$).

That said, he never wrote a script. He never directed a scene. He never edited a finished movie nor scored music for the background. He never constructed a set, stitched a costume or did makeup for any actor. In fairness, he’s been accused of diddling his share of starlets, however.

What he was shown to be is a perverted sexual predator in possession of few moral human attributes. A leach, living off the talents of others, would be more correctly descriptive.

If only I could think of someone in the automotive field, or perhaps space exploration, or even politics…..

 

[doug293cz]

Moderator's note:

This is not the place to discuss Elon Musk as a person. Keep the discussion centered on electric vehicles. Any future Musk centered posts, or posts containing Musk centered comments, will be summarily deleted.

If you wish to have a Musk related discussion, start a thread in the Debate forum.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[rkhanso]

I always want a steering wheel available to me.

And a V-8 engine with a manual transmission!!

 

[Kent88]

And a V-8 engine

Nah, I don't tow anything. Back when I lived/worked on a farm and had to pull livestock trailers, hay wagons, etc, that sort of thing made sense.

These days, I occasionally pull a u-haul and have a bike carrier.

And at this point, I'd take an honest look at how well a Silverado EV can handle some of those more difficult tasks anyway.

with a manual transmission!!

No thank you.

 

[Bilsch]

What are you watching on those screens?

Why recorded video clips of the people who came near my car while it was parked, of course, as every Tesla owner does.

 

[Kharnynb]

I have nothing against self-driving cars and hope some will indeed be available in the future.
I have some experience with the tesla one as one of my neighbours owns a model x, and he says that it works well in summer, but the second snow is on the ground, it's practically useless since it can't see the lane dividers and the cameras get blocked by snow/ice rather easily unless he cleans it really well every day.
I do think that mixed models that use radar/lidar and cameras will be the first to achieve some level of full independence, but when it will be legal to not have to pay attention is hard to say.
Tesla's decision to not use lidar was an obvious cost cutting move, similar to many of their recent decisions, i'm hoping the company will become more independent from musk if only because they won't be able to take another flop like the cybertruck.

 

[Bilsch]

I have nothing against self-driving cars and hope some will indeed be available in the future.
I have some experience with the tesla one as one of my neighbours owns a model x, and he says that it works well in summer, but the second snow is on the ground, it's practically useless since it can't see the lane dividers and the cameras get blocked by snow/ice rather easily unless he cleans it really well every day.
I do think that mixed models that use radar/lidar and cameras will be the first to achieve some level of full independence, but when it will be legal to not have to pay attention is hard to say.
Tesla's decision to not use lidar was an obvious cost cutting move, similar to many of their recent decisions, i'm hoping the company will become more independent from musk if only because they won't be able to take another flop like the cybertruck.

I just came through some pretty bad blizzard conditions in a mountain pass a few weeks back in a Y. It went whiteout as the trucks passed and I was sure the autopilot would disengage but it never did. I was very happy to have the help and for safety reasons always drive with it on. I agree with the engineers if humans can drive with one neural net and two not so great cameras then the car should be able to do the same with 8 very good eyes and a computer.

 

[tracer bullet]

I agree with the engineers if humans can drive with one neural net and two not so great cameras then the car should be able to do the same with 8 very good eyes and a computer.

Hmm, ehhhh, well..... As someone that's around a lot of automation every day, I'd be kind of the opposite. In a production environment the machines are bullet proof, the visions systems nail their jobs, etc. On the road is so dynamic I think I'd not chance it. On a clear, sunny day sure. Mountain pass with a blizzard no way. You didn't do it wrong, and FSD isn't bad, but in that situation I'm going to spend a moment disagreeing.

I'm not a Tesla owner, but know a few owners (3) and have been in and / or driven their cars. Like them overall. But I wouldn't do what you're describing! I may have to get their thoughts and see if I'm convinced otherwise.

Very much looking at PHEV's and EV's for my wife's next car. Not for any FSD thoughts but more some fuel savings and being nicer to the planet. And... TBH I'm partly in it so we can get 240V to the garage and I can use it to brew! I'm not at all kidding about that part.

 

[sibelman]

I have no opinion of Tesla's FSD and no concern about FSD promises kept or broken. At first, I didn't want a Tesla because the company was brand new to making cars, and I felt more secure with an established builder. Later, I didn't want a Tesla because I didn't want to spend that much on a car. Now there's another reason.

I get that, for some, the personal failings of an owner or CEO don't affect their purchasing decisions. I hope you continue to enjoy your Tesla, @Airborneguy

 

[sibelman]

FSD could be fantastic -- may already be. If it's truly "full." Until then, there's a risk that the human could become complacent and thus fail to do the human part.

The possibility of reducing mayhem on the road certainly appeals. Computers can fly and dock spaceships. They can probably navigate most traffic situations very well. Like humans, they won't be perfect. But if they hugely outperform us as drivers, then the days of legally driving one's own car could be numbered.

 

[Broothru]

Hmm, ehhhh, well..... As someone that's around a lot of automation every day, I'd be kind of the opposite. In a production environment the machines are bullet proof, the visions systems nail their jobs, etc. On the road is so dynamic I think I'd not chance it. On a clear, sunny day sure. Mountain pass with a blizzard no way. You didn't do it wrong, and FSD isn't bad, but in that situation I'm going to spend a moment disagreeing.

I'm not a Tesla owner, but know a few owners (3) and have been in and / or driven their cars. Like them overall. But I wouldn't do what you're describing! I may have to get their thoughts and see if I'm convinced otherwise.

Very much looking at PHEV's and EV's for my wife's next car. Not for any FSD thoughts but more some fuel savings and being nicer to the planet. And... TBH I'm partly in it so we can get 240V to the garage and I can use it to brew! I'm not at all kidding about that part.

I had the same dilemma about wiring the garage. Local electrician I know quoted me almost $2,500 to install a 50A/240V circuit from my main breaker box to the garage (opposite side of the house, through a finished basement (OUCH)). The biggest expense was going to be the heavy capacity Romex and conduit for a 60' run. In fairness it also included some "wants" of mine including a sub box and automatic transfer switch wired to pick up emergency loads to a backup an 8kW solar charger battery bank. The battery bank would also be available to power Level 2 EV chargers and also accept input from a 7kW gas generator I have. So, four ways to provide emergency power for an extended blackout: solar panels, battery backup, gasoline generator, in addition to grid power. Now bring on that Ford Lightning!

 

[Airborneguy]

I just came through some pretty bad blizzard conditions in a mountain pass a few weeks back in a Y. It went whiteout as the trucks passed and I was sure the autopilot would disengage but it never did. I was very happy to have the help and for safety reasons always drive with it on. I agree with the engineers if humans can drive with one neural net and two not so great cameras then the car should be able to do the same with 8 very good eyes and a computer.

Yup and I’ve told my Hurricane Ian story in this thread, more than once.

None of these posters have experience with the system. They’re just repeating what the media tells them, now painted by the required CEO hatred.

 

[Airborneguy]

I hope you continue to enjoy your Tesla, @Airborneguy

I certainly will (Until the Scout is available)!

 

[Bilsch]

None of these posters have experience with the system. They’re just repeating what the media tells them, now painted by the required CEO hatred.

That and the experiences most people know about, without actually driving one themselves, are dated and irrelevant. The system keeps being updated and the advances that come with each new software version aren't small but in fact huge improvements.

 

[mac_1103]

... if humans can drive with one neural net and two not so great cameras ...

The quality of the "cameras" is highly variable and often suboptimal, but you're really selling that neural net way short.

 

[Bilsch]

The quality of the "cameras" is highly variable and often suboptimal, but you're really selling that neural net way short.

120 people each day die in auto crashes so I think it's a good thing companies are working on making something better.