Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Imhoppy]

Certainly anyone smart enough to program a car to drive itself would have the brains to know you need to teach it not to be a terrorist, right?

Programming a car and teaching it not to be a terrorist has nothing to do at all with what cargo gets "transported" in a vehicle.

 

[day_trippr]

Bump in the road...

https://electrek.co/2025/02/09/tesla-cybertruck-crash-on-full-self-driving-v13-goes-viral/

 

[day_trippr]

Well this can't be good...

https://news.yahoo.com/news/autos/lucid-boss-quits-company-loses-145636341.html

 

[Kent88]

That's too bad. Iirc, Lucid had one of the EVs with the best range under $200k.

 

[doug293cz]

That's too bad. Iirc, Lucid had one of the EVs with the best range under $200k.

Not a volume market at an "under $200k" price, but they do look nice.

Brew on

 

[Broothru]

Well this can't be good...

https://news.yahoo.com/news/autos/lucid-boss-quits-company-loses-145636341.html

Ouch. My son-in-law just took delivery of one in November. He loves it, and it is an amazing car. Punch it hard, and it makes a Tesla’s Ludicrous Mode look tame.

I swear, when he pulled up next to red Model S at a stop light, it was the Tesla that turned green!

 

[Kent88]

Not a volume market at an "under $200k" price, but they do look nice.

Brew on

It's probably a lot cheaper than that, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

 

[mac_1103]

Lucid Air starts at ~$70k.

 

[tracer bullet]

There's a Carmudgeon podcast where Jason Cammisa talks about driving the Lucid, and how good it was at saving him from a crash on the track. I don't know if it's worth setting a lot of time aside for but if you're bored check it out.

I've also seen Savagegeese interview the CEO, and not that I know the guy at all but I'm a little sad to see him go, what a wealth of knowledge and a seemingly really good fit. It had me thinking about getting some stock, maybe I'm glad I forgot to actually look into it.

 

[day_trippr]

Fundamentally, Lucid is clearly in a precarious position. They have to build hundreds of thousands of units to ever hope to fully amortize the investments in manufacturing infrastructure and contracted supply chain costs before they can start "making a profit". Ten thousand units could never reach that level hence the prodigious loss per unit figure.

Given the stunning switch from sedans to SUVs over the last 20+ years perhaps their upcoming 3 row SUV will generate the sales volume they need to truly become a going concern. Stay tuned!

 

[Broothru]

Fundamentally, Lucid is clearly in a precarious position. They have to build hundreds of thousands of units to ever hope to fully amortize the investments in manufacturing infrastructure and contracted supply chain costs before they can start "making a profit". Ten thousand units could never reach that level hence the prodigious loss per unit figure.

Given the stunning switch from sedans to SUVs over the last 20+ years perhaps their upcoming 3 row SUV will generate the sales volume they need to truly become a going concern. Stay tuned!

It was ever so in the mass consumer automotive sector. Anybody remember the Jeff Bridges movie, "Tucker", about 20 years ago? It was a small release bio-pic that chronicled the true life experience of an automotive entrepreneur (Tucker) who designed and built a remarkable (for its time) futuristic car that fell flat in the marketplace. The subtext of the movie was how anti-trust collusion by Ford, GM and Chrysler, aided by 'friendly' Congress Critters who helped their corporate contributors back home to kill this project through rumor, innuendo and Congressional hearings.

The story line is not that different than what happened to Studebaker during the same Post WW2 1950s time frame. Fast forward a few decades and you find the Back-to-the-Future Mobile DeLorean dancing to the same tune, aided of course with a 'cocaine for profit' cash raising scandal, which underscores your point that, absent working capital and a growing fan base of customers, any commercial enterprise will fail.

 

[mac_1103]

Anybody remember the Jeff Bridges movie, "Tucker", about 20 years ago?

Sadly that was almost 40 years ago (1988).

 

[Broothru]

Sadly that was almost 40 years ago (1988).

Damn, I’m getting old.

 

[mac_1103]

Don't sweat it. I've already gotten old.

 

[day_trippr]

"Who's the U-boat commander?"

https://electrek.co/2025/03/11/tesl...-musk-said-you-could-use-the-truck-as-a-boat/

 

[PCABrewing]

"Who's the U-boat commander?"

https://electrek.co/2025/03/11/tesl...-musk-said-you-could-use-the-truck-as-a-boat/

Wow!

I'm thinking of the rate of electrolytic activity (damage) those huge batteries could be doing to that car.
I've worked on (inspection) flooded cars but none with that kind of Ah.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

You know, I've not been kind to Tesla. I've long thought that the only attractive car they produce is the Model S.

I mean, the Model 3 isn't hideous. It's not a Pontiac Aztec. It's not a, well, Tesla Cybertruck. But it's just so "meh". It's a 5. You'll take it home, but not necessarily something you'll brag about.

But what I can say from seeing the redesigned Model 3? They did some good things there. The lines on the front end are just SO much better. The rear was never a problem, but the new rear is more modern and sleek than the old. I mean, it's still no Model S. But they brought it up to a 7 or so. Which for a midsized sedan is actually pretty solid. Usually any attempt to make a midsized sedan much more than a 7 ends up backfiring and you end up with a 3.

So props to Tesla on this one.

 

[day_trippr]

Some hilarious and sobering bits in this. The good stuff starts around 9:00...

 

[day_trippr]

If this tech is legit it's gonna seriously stir the EV bidness.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-slumps-chinese-rival-141731262.html

 

[mac_1103]

If this tech is legit it's gonna seriously stir the EV bidness.

I would like to respond to this, but it would just get deleted for being too political.

 

[day_trippr]

Sorry, I don't post things here for political reasons, my thought on this was inspired by this paragraph:
"BYD said its new Super e-Platform provided a range of nearly 250 miles in about the same time it takes a gas-powered car to refuel, according to reporting from Bloomberg. The company plans to roll out vehicles with the technology starting next month, the report said."

Seems significant...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Seems significant...

Of course it does. But perhaps not for the US market? At least not anytime soon.

 

[fatjay]

I might be the first person to buy an ev under protest. Story time.

I like tech, i have made all sorts of neat things. My house is off grid solar powered by a system that I built myself. So I thought, an EV may make sense.

But when I look at ev's, they were all awful. I should mention I'm also a car enthusiast. The chevy bolt, the prius, even tesla, they look terrible and for the most part, perform terrible. Their interiors are abysmal.

Being a car enthusiast, I'm pretty fluent in rare cars or ones that sort of break the mold. You know hybrids? Those horrible things that are unnecessarily complicated, and perform terribly in virtually every category? I've been saying (to myself) that if they were serious about making a quality hybrid that had a chance at lasting a good while, they would take a page out of the train book.

Specifically, their drivetrains. A fair amount of trains operate via diesel-electric. That is, a diesel generator generating electricty to drive electric motors, which make the train move. So why wouldn't you do that in a car, instead of having a complicated transmission that takes both a gas driveshaft and an electric driveshaft and, in many complicated ways, uses them to drive the wheels.

Then someone did. In 2012 Henrich Fisker, a former car designer for Aston Martin, created the fisker karma, a true hybrid driven by a gas generator which produced electricity and sent it to electric motors with a battery buffer system, which could drive up to 50 miles on battery alone. Once the battery was low, the generator kicked on and made power.

And, being a car designer, he made his "hybrid" car to not look like sad if sad was a car. And gave it 400hp.

Unfortunately it was overpriced and not a lot were sold. The company soon went under.

10 years later, Henrich was at it again, with the all electric Fisker Ocean. This time in a midsize suv, that also doesn't look terrible. Especially considering the 360 mile range and 574hp, luxury interior, 22" wheels, and a solar panel for the roof.

However, disaster struck again. With some delays due to covid, supply chain issues, and having made an enemy of elon (henrich designed some tesla's too), there were hit pieces after hit pieces put out about the ocean. When the cars finally made it to the states from their assembly plant in austria by Magna (builders of jaguars and mercedes), the demand was way down.

With the bills piling up and loans coming to term, Fisker had to do something, and fast. So they decided on a firesale, where their $80k luxury electric SUV's were slashed to $35-37k, paid options became free, and free delivery.

At that point, I decided that I should see what all the EV fuss is about. So I bought one. It was delivered May 5th, 2024 to my house by a man in a diesel f250 towing a car trailer. He unloaded my car, I tipped the man, and he drove away.

I got in and the interior was truly incredible. I went for a test drive, and the ride was unlike anything I've ever been in. I currently have 2 jaguars, hummer h2, mini cooper s, and vw beetle. I've recently parted ways with a couple of corvettes, which I regret deeply for personal reasons.

Despite being a great car, it's still electric, and that comes with some major drawbacks. My house is solar powered, but it's battery is 113kwh, compared to my house's 90kwh battery. To charge it to full from empty it would completely drain my house. Another thing is the battery's state of charge. I didn't realize it when I bought it, but you don't just fill up ev batteries. Or run them dry. For the best battery life (10-12 years), you keep the battery between 20-80%. That's basically 60% of usable battery, so that 360 mile range just became 180 miles.

Now, I can live with that, because I don't drive more than 180 miles a day, and i charge it overnight every day in my garage. So I would keep the battery at 80%, drive around a bit and come back around 60%, then stick it on the charger and the next day when I want to drive, it would be at 80% again.

Then, there was another big issue: winter. So you can't just charge the battery, it has to be at an optimal temperature. Which requires heating. It gets cold here. At one point, it was in the single digits. I put my car on the charger and pumped 20kwh of battery in, but only 4kwh made it to the car's battery. That is an 80% loss of energy. If you power your house by solar, the winter days are short and largely overcast. you can't afford to just waste 16kwh of battery. And even if I wasn't off grid, that would be the equivalent of paying about $15/gal for gas at the pump.

I took it to the fast charger and charged it up in 45min, brought it home, parked it, and really haven't' driven it much the past few months because of the massive losses when charging in cold weather.

Oh and you lose about 0.75% of battery a day, regardless of if you drive it or not. So a month of not driving is a 22% loss of battery.

Now, the company is officially done, you can buy a new ocean for 20-24k. Knowing all I know now, if I wreck my ocean, I'll go out and buy another, because it's a really good car. It just can't be your only car.

And that's my EV story.

 

[sibelman]

Story time.

Thanks for sharing your unique story, @fatjay . Serves as an example of how various folks have vastly different priorities when choosing cars.

Unlike you, I've had one car (at a time) except for transition moments. Too, my youthful attraction to beautiful cars has atrophied - I still enjoy looking at 'em, but I have no real desire to possess, e.g., an E-type or whatnot.

I hope your Fisker Ocean serves you well. I'm accustomed to substantial winter efficiency loss, but pretty shocked by your huge energy loss in cold-weather charging -- I take it the Ocean lacks battery temperature management?

 

[fatjay]

Thanks for sharing your unique story, @fatjay . Serves as an example of how various folks have vastly different priorities when choosing cars.

Unlike you, I've had one car (at a time) except for transition moments. Too, my youthful attraction to beautiful cars has atrophied - I still enjoy looking at 'em, but I have no real desire to possess, e.g., an E-type or whatnot.

I hope your Fisker Ocean serves you well. I'm accustomed to substantial winter efficiency loss, but pretty shocked by your huge energy loss in cold-weather charging -- I take it the Ocean lacks battery temperature management?

Everyone has different priorities for vehicles. I like rare, unique, and head turning. I've never owned a honda, toyota, hyundai, or kia. I've had more than 50 cars in my life. A friend of mine has had 4.

The ocean has one of the most advanced battery management systems including teperature management, but i only have a level 1 charger, as I havent' finished running power to my shop yet. I have a 100' 12ga extension cord from the back of the house on a 20a circuit. Also the worst of it was when the high temps were around 10f and the low's were below 0f.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

No need to get political at all.

As the resident electrical engineer, turned marketing, let me throw a little cold water on this... Based on the things I know about EV batteries / charging despite not actually owning one...

So... Having a 1000 kW charging capability DOES mean that they can charge very fast. However, the marketing-speak of simply dividing the battery capacity by the maximum charging rate to say you can deliver X range in Y minutes is, well, BS.

What we know about battery charging is that battery charging is fastest when the battery is at a low charge level. And that as the battery charge level increases, the rate drops. NOT because you can't supply electricity faster, but because of, well, battery chemistry and physical laws. So even if you develop a car that can make use of 1000 kW charging, and you have a 1000 kW charger, and your battery capacity is exactly equal in kWh to 1000 kW * 5 minutes of charging... You're NOT going to fill that battery in 5 minutes. Because you can only accept 1000 kW for a very short portion of the charging curve.

This is why EV owners on road trips don't charge to 100% at each stop. Not because it's not good for the battery; although that's true, on a road trip you might sacrifice long term battery life for time... But because the charge rate drops off as you get above certain charge levels. It might take you 20 minutes to go 10% to 80% at a fast charger, and then another 40 minutes to an hour to go 80% to 100%. (Numbers made up--EV owners in this thread can likely correct me.) At that point going above 80% isn't worth it as long as you can get to the next fast charger with that 80%.

None of this changes when you go to a 1000 kW charger and a car that can accept it. Is it an improvement? Probably, yes! Although nobody knows what the charging will cost at a charger capable of 1000 kW, and what subjecting the battery to that charge rate will do to battery degradation. There might be tradeoffs in designing to 1000 kW that the market will prove are not ideal.

IMHO this whole release is the sort of thing that's great for publicity, but probably nowhere near as meaningful as everyone thinks it is. Because I think the long term proposition is not DC fast charging; it's at-home charging and L1 or L2 charging becoming ubiquitous. DC fast charging is expensive and not good for your battery. I think the ultimate future of this industry is that DC fast charging will ONLY be used on road trips--and that's an edge case scenario. Would it be nice to have 1000 kW vs 350 kW chargers? Maybe. But I don't think it's a game-changer.

 

[sibelman]

Is it an improvement? Probably, yes!

We don't know how much improvement. Or when this or other claimed battery (and charging) improvements will become available here. But it's still positive, even if exaggerated. (and, you betcha, it's good to take these grand announcements with a big grain of salt)

I'm hoping that my next EV (in ~5 years?) will offer a major step up from current capabilities. Seems like a reasonable hope - surely, the fast, capacious, lightweight, temperature-insensitive solid-state batteries of my dreams are just around the corner! Right?

 

[Pkrd]

Are they solar panels on the roof?

 

[fatjay]

Are they solar panels on the roof?

Yes they are, in the past 10 months they've provided me with 300 miles of additional range in less than optimal conditions. In optimal conditions, they are said to provide 1000 miles of range per year.

 

[tracer bullet]

fisker ocean

They certainly got interesting when they were put on a fire sale to be sold and gotten rid of. The lack of support would concern me though, parts supply for jobs like brakes or struts, electrical repairs if and when needed. Does this concern you at all?