Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[passedpawn]

Off topic a bit, but you guys know that doesn't stop me...

@Airborneguy was at my house today. He's a damned good dude. It's a little odd meeting somebody from the forum. This place is like the movies that you can watch from your armchair - but you don't expect the actors to show up at your front door and hang out and chat. Anyway, glad he did.

Thanks for helping out in FL sonny. Hope to see you back down here again soon.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’ll definitely be back brother.

 

[Airborneguy]

There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the reservation numbers provided by Scout Motors. Mine is in the 900 million range. My cousins initial one is 700 million even though it was placed after mine. His second one has an even lower number.

My goal is to completely forget about this in a few days so that I am totally surprised about 3 years from now. But then again forgetting raises the likelihood of me selling the Tesla prior to being called to configure, which is not ideal.

 

[tracer bullet]

But then again forgetting raises the likelihood of me selling the Tesla prior to being called to configure, which is not ideal.

Even if you didn't actually remember, it would seem that if you were truly interested in a Scout,that you'd probably accidentally purchase a Rivian, which would seem to be a very fine choice.

 

[Airborneguy]

Even if you didn't actually remember, it would seem that if you were truly interested in a Scout,that you'd probably accidentally purchase a Rivian, which would seem to be a very fine choice.

Good point, but I feel more comfortable with Scout because of its association with Volkswagen. I’d have bought a Rivian long ago, but for my reluctance to risk tying myself to their success or failure.

Financially, I’m very risk averse.

And… it’s a Scout! The first vehicle I remember my father owning was an International Scout. I’ve wanted one ever since!

 

[tracer bullet]

At least you didn't buy a Fisker!

 

[mac_1103]

I feel more comfortable with Scout because of its association with Volkswagen. I’d have bought a Rivian long ago, but for my reluctance to risk tying myself to their success or failure.

Didn't VW just kinda tie themselves to Rivian?

At least you didn't buy a Fisker!

But the deals you could have!

 

[Bilsch]

On the contrary, I have often lusted for a Tesla, however I cannot abide the Muscrat. Perhaps when the Board of Directors finally ‘grows a pair’ and puts their fiduciary duty to the shareholders ahead of a multi-billionaire’s ego…

The thing though is it's his part crazy part genius personality that makes the product so great. Without him the cars would be no better then Ford or GM electric offerings if they even existed at all.

 

[madscientist451]

Eventually, all the gas tax will go from per gallon on gas to per mile actually driven. California is reportedly thinking about 30 cents a mile, which is way above what they get from the gas tax. Will other states follow California’s lead? Will this have any impact on a decision to go electric or not?
https://gosuits.com/blog/california-spearheads-pilot-testing-for-per-mile-tax-system/
This article has a chart that predicts in 20 to 25 years, state gas tax revenue will be reduced $25 to 30 billion each year because of electric cars. Obviously, a milage tax for all will be a reality very soon.
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/state-vmt-vehicle-miles-traveled-taxes/

 

[mac_1103]

Eventually, all the gas tax will go from per gallon on gas to per mile actually driven. California is reportedly thinking about 30 cents a mile, which is way above what they get from the gas tax.

Virginia instituted a flat additional tax ("highway use fee') on hybrids and EVs more than a decade ago (maybe two?). Then they extended it to any vehicle that gets more than 25 mpg combined. It is based on the average number of miles driven by all vehicles registered in the state. This year, they finally instituted a program that allows you to pay based on your own actual miles driven - right after I renewed the registration on one of my fuel efficient cars. But you have to get a device installed in your car and download an app for your phone. Of course, we have annual vehicle safety inspections in this state, so they already know how many miles every car is driven (that's where the data they use to compute the average comes from).

 

[Airborneguy]

Eventually, all the gas tax will go from per gallon on gas to per mile actually driven. California is reportedly thinking about 30 cents a mile, which is way above what they get from the gas tax. Will other states follow California’s lead? Will this have any impact on a decision to go electric or not?
https://gosuits.com/blog/california-spearheads-pilot-testing-for-per-mile-tax-system/
This article has a chart that predicts in 20 to 25 years, state gas tax revenue will be reduced $25 to 30 billion each year because of electric cars. Obviously, a milage tax for all will be a reality very soon.
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/state-vmt-vehicle-miles-traveled-taxes/

Not necessarily for all. My state has a flat registration fee for EVs. Many others went this route as well.

California is California. The solution isn’t to eschew EVs as a personal choice, but it is unmentionable in this section.

 

[madscientist451]

Virginia instituted a flat additional tax ("highway use fee') on hybrids and EVs more than a decade ago (maybe two?). Then they extended it to any vehicle that gets more than 25 mpg combined.

The article below has more details about the scheme used in Virginia. It indicates for an EV the road tax would be about $124 a year, which seems pretty cheap. I expect that cost to go up substantially.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/charged-efficiency-highway-fee-debate-143345398.html

 

[passedpawn]

Eventually, all the gas tax will go from per gallon on gas to per mile actually driven. California is reportedly thinking about 30 cents a mile, which is way above what they get from the gas tax. Will other states follow California’s lead? Will this have any impact on a decision to go electric or not?
https://gosuits.com/blog/california-spearheads-pilot-testing-for-per-mile-tax-system/
This article has a chart that predicts in 20 to 25 years, state gas tax revenue will be reduced $25 to 30 billion each year because of electric cars. Obviously, a milage tax for all will be a reality very soon.
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/state-vmt-vehicle-miles-traveled-taxes/

How would the state know how many miles you drove?

 

[madscientist451]

Not necessarily for all. My state has a flat registration fee for EVs.

In New Jersey, the EV fee is $250, which seems pretty reasonable to me. That won’t last long, either the fee will dramatically increase or they’ll go to a per mile tax.

 

[madscientist451]

How would the state know how many miles you drove?

They’ll have annual inspections, if they don’t already have them.

 

[passedpawn]

They’ll have annual inspections, if they don’t already have them.

So you have to let the state inspect your vehicle annually?

 

[day_trippr]

Massachusetts has always had annual safety inspections, to which emissions checks were added in the '70s. Used to stick a smog probe up the tail pipe and clip an ignition timing sensor to any spark plug wire, and the tech would then have to put the engine through a few rpm curves (all that stuff is now handled by interrogating a car's OBD system via dongle connection - the car will confess its ills ) Along with the results of the safety and emissions check, the mileage is recorded...

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

Let's be careful not to get too into tax stuff here.

 

[mac_1103]

How would the state know how many miles you drove?

This is voluntary at present, but could easily be made mandatory:

"The miles you drive will be tracked by the device Emovis sends you to install in your vehicle. The device communicates with Emovis to record the miles you drive. For electric vehicles, the vehicle's telematics system will track the miles driven and transmit the information to Emovis.

When you sign up for the Mileage Choice Program, you have the option to choose a mileage reporting device with or without GPS capability. A non-GPS enabled device will only track the miles you drive, not your location.

Once a year, each customer participating in the Mileage Choice Program will have to "true up" the miles driven by taking a picture of their odometer through the app."

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

 

[beren]

I was seriously looking at a trip to Olympic park last year, and I really wanted to rent an EV while we were there.

There was enough infrastructure around there that I could probably have made it work. I believe there are EVs that would be fine driving around the places we wanted to check out. I just wasn't sure we could find lodging at places close to both park entrances and charging.

Last I knew 240 plugs for EV charging wasn't a searchable amenity on VRBO.

The next big park trip we plan that requires vehicle rental, I'll be looking for a 4xe.

Renting for a road trip seems like more trouble than it’s worth. Fast charging and highway driving means it’s not cheaper than gas, and you have the stress of trying to find chargers but it’s not your car that you know well.

Also hate to burst the bubble, but Musk is far from a genius. He doesn’t know how to code, Tesla and SpaceX have said they had handlers for him to keep him distracted and away from the engineers that do the work. His destroying of twitter’s value, insane hours “playing” Diablo 4, and 200 tweets a day shows he doesn’t do anything else but troll the net. Tesla would be so much better without him honestly. His cyberdumpster is on its 6th recall in a year.

 

[Jonakr]

So you have to let the state inspect your vehicle annually?

We have to be inspected almost every year. I pay for two at a time, though, whenever possible.

 

[doug293cz]

Renting for a road trip seems like more trouble than it’s worth. Fast charging and highway driving means it’s not cheaper than gas, and you have the stress of trying to find chargers but it’s not your car that you know well.

Also hate to burst the bubble, but Musk is far from a genius. He doesn’t know how to code, Tesla and SpaceX have said they had handlers for him to keep him distracted and away from the engineers that do the work. His destroying of twitter’s value, insane hours “playing” Diablo 4, and 200 tweets a day shows he doesn’t do anything else but troll the net. Tesla would be so much better without him honestly. His cyberdumpster is on its 6th recall in a year.

My wife's battery SUV averages about 3.7 mi/kWH. With public fast chargers @ $0.50/kWH, that works out to ~$0.135/mi. With gas @$3.00/gal and 25 mi/gal the cost/mile is $0.12/mi. If gas is $4.00/gal then it's $0.16/mi. If you only get 20 mi/gal then it works out to $0.15/mi and $0.20/mi.

Our home marginal electric rate is ~$0.15/kWH, so my wife is usually driving for ~$0.04/mi.

Brew on

 

[Agent]

I'm currently taking advantage of the fact that most EVs >10 years old are basically disposable to get some hands-on experience.

I picked up a 2012 Chevy Volt as a mechanic special, and am fiddling around trying to make it function properly again. Software is not understanding about any imperfections.

 

[doug293cz]

Interesting report on cold weather testing of BEVs:

Norwegian Auto Federation Warns: Tesla’s Performance Drops in Cold Weather Compared to Chinese EVs​

"Twice a year, Norway’s El Prix tests electric vehicles under harsh winter conditions. The latest study, conducted with temperatures ranging from -2°C to -10°C, compared the real-world range of 23 different EV models against the range advertised under WLTP (Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicle Test Procedure) standards. The goal? To see how well EVs perform when snow and freezing temperatures put their batteries to the ultimate test.​

​

The Tesla Model 3 Long Range, known for its impressive reputation, fell short in this trial. Despite its 75 kWh battery, the Model 3 managed only 441 kilometers, a significant drop from its WLTP-rated 629 kilometers. This 30% discrepancy placed it among the weakest performers, trailing just behind the Volkswagen ID.7, which showed a 31.9% difference.​

​

In stark contrast, Chinese EVs proved to be winter champions. The HiPhi Z, a premium sedan less known outside China, achieved an outstanding 522 kilometers on a 120 kWh battery. The difference between its real-world range and WLTP rating was just 5.9%, making it one of the most reliable performers in the test."​

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

Tesla M3 LR: 5.88 km/kw vs HiPhi Z: 4.35 km/kw

 

[doug293cz]

Tesla M3 LR: 5.88 km/kw vs HiPhi Z: 4.35 km/kw

Comparison was about relative range degradation with very low temperatures vs. "normal" temperature range. Not absolute economy of one vs. the other. Taken at face value, the Chinese vehicle did not lose as much of its normal range performance as did the Tesla at low temps. Would be interesting to know what about the technologies used account for the difference.

Brew on

 

[Broothru]

Comparison was about relative range degradation with very low temperatures vs. "normal" temperature range. Not absolute economy of one vs. the other. Taken at face value, the Chinese vehicle did not lose as much of its normal range performance as did the Tesla at low temps. Would be interesting to know what about the technologies used account for the difference.

Brew on

Heated battery?

 

[day_trippr]

I get all that, but the Tesla seems to be waay more efficient in the cold just the same which makes me wonder what weight the article's point actually carries IRL...

 

[Kharnynb]

I get all that, but the Tesla seems to be waay more efficient in the cold just the same which makes me wonder what weight the article's point actually carries IRL...

check the weight...that other car is almost twice as heavy, so quite impressive on it's economy at cold temperature

Tesla has gotten a lot worse with their newer cars, not to mention the abomination that is the cybertruck failblazer

 

[Broothru]

check the weight...that other car is almost twice as heavy, so quite impressive on it's economy at cold temperature

Tesla has gotten a lot worse with their newer cars, not to mention the abomination that is the cybertruck failblazer

Inceltruk?