Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[mac_1103]

Washington Post recently did (or I guess commissioned) a study of gasoline vs electrons in all 50 states. Electrons won everywhere. It's behind a paywall, of course.

 

[El Whedo]

I'm pro-EV, I just wish there was more consumer demand so Government idiocy/inefficacy could be kept outta the equation.

 

[Airborneguy]

My electric bill was $179 last month. That includes all of the charging for roughly 1200 miles.

Edit: to clarify, that’s my house and car.

 

[Kent88]

I'm pro-EV, I just wish there was more consumer demand so Government idiocy/inefficacy could be kept outta the equation.

Oh this is a topic that gets really close to what should be discussed in debate. I don't say that to chastise you, but because I need to tread carefully in response.

I think an issue with customer demand is that a large demographic has bought into Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) that certain people spread about EVs. You don't have to go far to find it, there's a bunch in this thread.

There are actual issues with EVs that we need to consider. A lot of solutions are on the horizon, like with speed of recharge and ease of finding convenient charging stations. There are issues that we still need to sort out, like finding battery chemistry that's dense, stable, safe, inexpensive, and probably lighter weight. It doesn't help that there are people out there claiming that EV batteries horribly degrade within 20,000mi, or that all EVs are underpowered, etc.

At the end of the day I think people just want reasonably priced, reliable transportation and they don't want to have radically different vehicles that require a lot of new things to learn. The good news is, today's EVs check at least two of those boxes. When I bought my Volt I noticed that it had a lot of things in common with the Pontiacs I had been driving. My drivers license and everything I learned in driver's education still applied to driving the Volt. It has been just as reliable to drive as any of my Pontiacs, I feel just as confident driving it on snowy roads as any other car I've driven. As far as affordability, EVs already have better TCO than most people accept, but it'll get better as vehicle manufacturers improve their supply chains and more used EVs hit the market.

I wonder whether salespeople's lack of experience is hindering EV sales. A lot of vehicle shopping is done online now. How many people are still driving up on the lot and asking questions besides "can I test drive this vehicle I found on your website?"? I don't know.

 

[El Whedo]

My electric bill was $179 last month. That includes all of the charging for roughly 1200 miles.

Edit: to clarify, that’s my house and car.

That is awesome. Truly Bad-Ass!

I try hard to have a small carbon footprint. Three of us live in 1200 sq ft. Dunno what this month's electricity bill will be, but last month was 54 dollars and change. 2/3's of that bill were taxes, fees, and maintenance charges. On the up-side, our local elec co-op hit its goal of 100% daytime solar!!!

My wife used to go to work here in the village either walking, or on her bicycle. This summer, she has a sewing machine and several large bags to tote, so she uses the Subaru to get to work and the grocery store twice a month (almost 30 miles round trip). So she uses about 3 gallons of gas a month.

Last month, I rode my motorcycle 344 miles at 69 MPG for just under 5 gallons of gas used.

 

[El Whedo]

Oh this is a topic that gets really close to what should be discussed in debate. I don't say that to chastise you, but because I need to tread carefully in response.

I think an issue with customer demand is that a large demographic has bought into Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) that certain people spread about EVs. You don't have to go far to find it, there's a bunch in this thread.

There are actual issues with EVs that we need to consider. A lot of solutions are on the horizon, like with speed of recharge and ease of finding convenient charging stations. There are issues that we still need to sort out, like finding battery chemistry that's dense, stable, safe, inexpensive, and probably lighter weight. It doesn't help that there are people out there claiming that EV batteries horribly degrade within 20,000mi, or that all EVs are underpowered, etc.

At the end of the day I think people just want reasonably priced, reliable transportation and they don't want to have radically different vehicles that require a lot of new things to learn. The good news is, today's EVs check at least two of those boxes. When I bought my Volt I noticed that it had a lot of things in common with the Pontiacs I had been driving. My drivers license and everything I learned in driver's education still applied to driving the Volt. It has been just as reliable to drive as any of my Pontiacs, I feel just as confident driving it on snowy roads as any other car I've driven. As far as affordability, EVs already have better TCO than most people accept, but it'll get better as vehicle manufacturers improve their supply chains and more used EVs hit the market.

I wonder whether salespeople's lack of experience is hindering EV sales. A lot of vehicle shopping is done online now. How many people are still driving up on the lot and asking questions besides "can I test drive this vehicle I found on your website?"? I don't know.

You make lots of good points.

 

[Bilsch]

I wonder whether salespeople's lack of experience is hindering EV sales. A lot of vehicle shopping is done online now. How many people are still driving up on the lot and asking questions besides "can I test drive this vehicle I found on your website?"? I don't know.

I think salespeople are actively hindering EV sales. Both times I went to the GM dealer, first to see the the Volt then with the Bolt, they tried very hard to talk me out of buying. Tesla made the right move to get rid of dealers.

 

[Kent88]

I think salespeople are actively hindering EV sales. Both times I went to the GM dealer, first to see the the volt then with the bolt, they tried very hard to talk me out of buying. Tesla made the right move to get rid of dealers.

My experiences looking at Volts (and a Bolt) the salespeople were nice, but I felt like they expected us to know everything they'd ordinarily tell us about the vehicle already. Like they expected we had either already sold ourselves on it or they hadn't, and they were just going to play along. Almost some form of apathetic.

 

[sibelman]

Like @elwhedo I'm pro-EV. I'm pro-electric brewing too. In my garage/brewery, they go together .

When it's time to replace my Bolt, I hope there's another EV short enough to fit while I'm brewing.

Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

Over in Debate I shared an interview this guy at Ford did with NPR where he addresses that, yes they are losing money on EV sales, but they're finding that people who buy EVs overwhelmingly tend to buy them again when it comes time for them to buy another vehicle. Ford (and I'm sure other automakers) also expect that they're going to be able to bring costs down as they scale up EV production and improve their supply chains. Ford is well aware that they're losing money on some EVs now, but they're expecting to make that money back when customers go to buy their second or third EV.



One of the things I have repeatedly stated is that it isn't my goal to sell any ICE drivers an EV today. That'd be nice, but I know I can't do that. What I really hope for is that I can share my experiences driving a PHEV, debunk myths, encourage people to look at what they ask their current vehicles to do, look at what EVs available today are capable of, and when their current vehicles reach the criteria for them to find new transportation have them give EVs honest consideration.

I have repeatedly stated that part of deciding whether an EV works for anybody is looking at ones frequently driven routes, considering the range of the EVs one likes, and considering where and when charging will take place.

But this blanket statement of the charging network as a whole not being sufficient is a dying argument and ignores how many people already do make it work with their current EVs and how many more people would be able to make it work if we could wave a magic wand and swap their ICE vehicle for an EV today.

Totally^^^^

We came into EV/PHEV ‘back door’ when we bought our son’s Prius so he and DIL could get a minivan when bonus grandchild #3 came about somewhat unexpectedly. We’d toyed with the idea of an EV, even vicariously looked into Tesla, but never reached the point of pulling the trigger.

Now after nearly 3 years of driving a PHEV I don’t think we’ll buy another ICE. The ‘normal’ choice of “which car shall we take” now always defaults to the Prius, and leads to disagreements when we each have separate destinations.

Before, we were “EV curious”. Now we’re converts.

 

[Bilsch]

Now after nearly 3 years of driving a PHEV I don’t think we’ll buy another ICE. The ‘normal’ choice of “which car shall we take” now always defaults to the Prius, and leads to disagreements when we each have separate destinations.

Before, we were “EV curious”. Now we’re converts.

When we bought our first it seemed like the best idea to keep one gas car because of early adopter fears, range anxiety etc. Then it became arguments all the time about who got stuck with the gas car. Finally we just got rid of the ICE and now are a 2 EV household. Can't imagine ever going back.

 

[Rodent]

took a step yesterday towards our eventual EV future and spent a couple hours with a solar install tech sizing out a new system. given a couple options I want to utilize, it's likely not going to be the least expensive system possible - but I'm OK with that as I'm not looking to install a Yugo (or a Ferrari for that matter)

charging an EV will definitely help reduce the ROI time, but that's a future objective that falls later on in the priorities list

Officially taking the plunge into solar with a ~13kW system here at the Ratt Shakk. Engineering drawings complete, permit requests submitted, and Net Metering with the local electric utility applied for and under review. I didn't opt for a battery at this time, and will give it a couple years for the new battery tech to become available at the residential consumer level.

While not specifically an EV purchase, it's a step closer to taking the plunge into a used EV in 2-3 years once we have a couple debts paid off. Charging by solar make an even better argument for EVs in the larger perspective.

Nice to have these kind of options available and doable while still 5-10 years away from a possible early retirement. the benefit of significantly lower costs to commute in retirement is quite appealing

 

[day_trippr]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/01/tesla-discounts-model-s-by-30000-and-model-x-by-41000/

 

[sibelman]

Substantial 5-digit price drops to snag 4-digit tax incentives? Something important is missing from that story.

 

[Airborneguy]

New models coming, it has to be. The S is tempting as hell, but I’ll take a bath on my 3. I’ve been dumping miles onto it like there’s no tomorrow, the plan was to keep it till it dies. It’s nearly paid off too.

 

[Kent88]

Substantial 5-digit price drops to snag 4-digit tax incentives? Something important is missing from that story.

Markup

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

 

[Kent88]

I saw that this weekend. I guess it's a funny story about the government workers, but it really isn't anything a lot of EV drivers don't already know before they buy. The EV charging network needs to get better. The great thing is that it is getting better. And there are places in the US where it is already adequate. It's decent enough in my area, and my regular "road trip" routes, that I would be comfortable trading my Volt for a Bolt tomorrow if I had the opportunity.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

Rose tinted glasses.

 

[Kent88]

 

[Rodent]

For those who wish to continue pushing a debate - why? Clearly many don't want an EV for whatever their personal reasons are, ok fine. Clearly there are others who do for whatever their reasons are, also ok fine.

Maybe it's come time to start an anti-EV thread in the proper forum and bring your angst there?

Reminds me of the debates I used to hear about owning mobile phones, and flying on an airplane in anything but your very best attire, or going to a fancy restaurant in jeans, or owning a computer. and if you want to go back even further ... debates on electrifying your house, or having running water, of having a toilet vs outhouse, or .....

 

[mac_1103]

Reminds me of the debates I used to hear about owning mobile phones, and flying on an airplane in anything but your very best attire, or going to a fancy restaurant in jeans, or owning a computer. and if you want to go back even further ... debates on electrifying your house, or having running water, of having a toilet vs outhouse, or .....

TBH, I'm still not sold on this whole "automobile" idea at all. Just what exactly is the problem with streets filled with horse manure anyway? Now get the hell off my lawn, dammit!

 

[Bilsch]

If you buy the wrong brand of car with short range and a poor charging network then you will probably have a problem. I have zero issues road tripping in my Tesla because superchargers are everywhere, the range is long, it charges fast and I even get the electricity for free.

The moral of this story is all electric vehicles are not created equal and therefore you should choose wisely.

 

[day_trippr]

For those who wish to continue pushing a debate - why?

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

You can debate the pros and cons of EVs, but you cannot progress into political commentary. The nature of this discussion makes avoiding getting political a challenge, but that's what moderators are for (but the mods would appreciate you moderating yourselves.)

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[A.Homebrewer]

No electric car for me. I live in Montana, a very large state with a very small population. Going anywhere involves a relatively long drive. We regularly travel between our farm and our city house, 250 miles one way. Some electrics have that much range, but not at the 75-80 mph cruising speeds common here.

When I fully retire, and we start spending most of our time in the city, an electric vehicle could be a possibility. We only drive 100 miles, or so, a week when we’re there. But, we would still need a conventional vehicle for travel outside the city, so the electric would be more of a “hey look at me” thing than a truly viable alternative.

EVs are definitely urban commuter cars. I live in rural Iowa. I want a car that can travel reasonable distances (400+ miles) when it is -10to -20°F and refill in under 10 minutes.

 

[Kent88]

You made a very similar statement in December. I remember because I have family in Iowa and I broke down how a trip across Iowa on 9 might look.

I'm pretty familiar with parts of northern Iowa.

The vehicle I reference most for hypothetical road trips is the Chevrolet Bolt, which has advertised somewhere around 250miles on a full charge, and is one of the more affordable new EVs.

If one wanted to take a drive across northern Iowa, roughly following 9, starting from Lansing and going west, if I'm not mistaken you'd encounter public charging in Decorah, and then you'd be able to choose from options in Mason City and maybe Clear Lake, then Estherville, then Rock Rapids, and from there you're practically in Dakota and Sioux Falls.

Breaking it down, plugging in generic towns into Google:
Lansing to Decorah: 35miles
Decorah to Clear Lake: 92miles
Mason City (which looks like the more likely stop than Clear Lake, it's closer to Decorah) to Estherville: 100 miles
Estherville to Rock Rapids: 70 miles
Rock Rapids to Sioux Falls: 32 miles

Each of those chunks is more than manageable for a Bolt. But your next argument would be that winter temperatures would make that impossible. So at some point in March or April into October or November, I don't think you can contest that it would be manageable.

Public fast chargers in/near Riceville, Buffalo Center, and Spirit Lake would, IMHO, make range anxiety on such a trip a non-factor for all but the coldest of cold snaps. Even without them, I would be pretty confident that a Bolt could make this trip through a typical northern Iowa winter day.

About the only thing you added was that you need to refill/recharge in under 10min and you need a range of 400 miles. 400 miles from a recharge, at an average speed of 59mph that takes over 6h45min to deplete. I don't know about anyone else, but I usually have to get out and stretch, grab something to eat, put some new fluid in and leave some old fluid behind more often than that.

I think I also since discovered more charging stations along 9, some of them DC fast chargers.

 

[sibelman]

When we bought a 2012 Leaf, we knew it wasn't a road trip car, and that we'd have to rent for road trips.

Our 2018 Bolt is good for about the longest drive we care to make in a day, but we need at least Level 2 charging for successive road days, so still some limits.

400 miles in cold weather probably exceeds any production EV's capability.

And then there's the purchase price, a show stopper for many.

Clearly, one must value something about EVs in exchange for these, er, limitations. Those who need a road trip vehicle and who don't strongly value the reduced carbon footprint will likely stick with ICE vehicles, even though EVs are quiet, quick, and unspeakably cool.

 

[Kent88]

400 miles in cold weather probably exceeds any production EV's capability.

For now. And -20°F is not typical for a winter day in Iowa. There are cold snaps where it gets that low, but I don't believe it's the norm. I have family in northern Iowa, and I live it a colder part of the Midwest. -20°F basically doesn't happen at all for three quarters of the year, April through November. Even December -March it's still uncommon enough that it's usually thought of as a cold snap, and it's usually overnight. I don't think I have ever noticed a forecast in this part of the world with -20°F (or colder) listed as the day's high temperature.

It can get darn cold here. Cold enough to chase people like betarhoalphadelta. Last new years we had a really bad cold snap. But I think people who have lived here a while usually try not to road trip that much in winter, with the obvious exception of late December.

Road tripping at -20°F is, IMHO, getting into outlier territory.