Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

[ThirstyPawsHB]

To gelatin or not, that is the question. What does everyone else do with this recipe? I'm kegging next week. First dry hop was 3 days ago. I don't want to lose the hop aroma and am thinking no, but I've read that Vinnie does so it seems true to recipe.

Side note - I'll be at the brewery in 2 weeks and planned on bringing home a few bottles for side by side comparison. Can't wait!

I don't have the capability to gelatin. Simply bottled. O2 exposure also. Was the top tasting beer I've made in any case. Be curious on your results.

 

[brewski09]

Each has their pluses and minuses IMHO. I love the fact that I have fewer hops, soaking up less eventual beer with the hop shot. However the hop shot is a sticky mess and makes cleanup a bit more work as it sticks to the boil kettle pretty good. I use the cans and syringes off Amazon so it results in about two brews for < 30 bucks, when doing a big IIPA like PtE clones. When doing a beer this big in hops, using CO2 extracted alpha acids is the way to go! They also have varietal hop shots now that I would like to try as later additions, though not sure how well that will work. Anyone tried 'em yet?

I wanted to use the Amarillo and use it like dryhops. I wonder what that would rate like. I'm thinking really good.


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[The_Glue]

Just bottled this beer.

After i removed the dryhop bag it used to have this amazing centennial driven floral and fruity smell. Then i closed the fermenter and bottled it only 3 days later.
During bottling that beautiful smell disappeared and it developed an agressive but one dimensional citraish lemon smell. Will the floral stuff come back after bottle conditioning?

 

[irishrover32]

Just bottled this beer.

After i removed the dryhop bag it used to have this amazing centennial driven floral and fruity smell. Then i closed the fermenter and bottled it only 3 days later.
During bottling that beautiful smell disappeared and it developed an agressive but one dimensional citraish lemon smell. Will the floral stuff come back after bottle conditioning?

give it about 3 or 4 weeks in the bottle at room temp its amazing how your beer developes in this time its like the aroma and flavour just comes out of nowhere, its such a mistake drinking your beers to early i learned the hard way.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

give it about 3 or 4 weeks in the bottle at room temp its amazing how your beer developes in this time its like the aroma and flavour just comes out of nowhere, its such a mistake drinking your beers to early i learned the hard way.

+1. Been close to throwing out beers, but decided to give a few weeks. Makes all the difference man.

 

[The_Glue]

give it about 3 or 4 weeks in the bottle at room temp its amazing how your beer developes in this time its like the aroma and flavour just comes out of nowhere, its such a mistake drinking your beers to early i learned the hard way.

Cool!
Is this development happens too when you keg your beer?
Because this beer tasted and smelled flawless in the primary (which only happens since i improved my fermentations) then it changed at bottling day (in a timespan of 3-4 days)
I wonder if it would have been different if i would kegged or bottled it right away when i removed the hopbag.
Maybe i oxidized it when i removed the hopbag? I had some drops fall back into the beer from the hopbag upon removing.

 

[brewski09]

I would have bottled when I removed the hop bag because you can lose the delicate aromas of hops pretty easily. With that said, I don't think you damaged the beer per se. Most beers have a sweet spot for drinking when everything comes together. Keep tasting it to find out where that is for your process and this beer.


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[The_Glue]

I would have bottled when I removed the hop bag because you can lose the delicate aromas of hops pretty easily. With that said, I don't think you damaged the beer per se. Most beers have a sweet spot for drinking when everything comes together. Keep tasting it to find out where that is for your process and this beer.


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I am sure that it will be improving in the bottles during the first 3-4 weeks because i have seen it happen with all my beers, i just dont know how it could change for the worse in the primary. Maybe it was not even the beer, just a perception issue.

 

[irishrover32]

so my pliny clone was bottled on the 3-08-14 making it 9 weeks old and only now has it mellowed out, the bitterness was way too high, i missed my gravitys a fair bit so it came out at 6.5%, would this had a major effect on the bitterness?? it finished at around 1.009 aswell, it was kind of an astringent bitterness aswell where would that of came from, if i was to rebrew this id be way more careful, my main cock up was not adding the sugar before the boil which F'ed up my gravity readings. but anyway iv got to say the flavour and aroma are just bursting out of this they are amazing im stunned and so was everyone in my club its an amazing recipe, i did make a few changes tho, on bottling day i decided to use the hops i had left to make a hop tea, i added water at 79C to 15g of simcoe, centennial and columbus and let it steep for around 20 minutes and then added it to the fermentor. i think this had a major effect as my buddy who done the same recipe had a lot less flavour, so this is a tecnique i highly recommend

 

[brewski09]

Yes, a lower gravity will make the beer more bitter. Lower gravity=higher bitterness. Also lower finished gravity will change the perception of bitterness (more residual sugars will balance the bitterness).


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[D-Train]

I had the opportunity to try my execution of this clone side by side with a bottle of Pliny tonight. Keep in mind that I'm fairly new to brewing and maybe experience would change the results. They were close, but there are a few things I would change next time.

1. Add Amarillo to the dry/late addition hops. The real Pliny was definitely weighted more to the citrus side. The clone had more dank/pine. I've read that Pliny now includes Amarillo.
2. Use only 2 hopshots for the first addition. I used 3 hopshots and the clone was more bitter. Earlier I posted that I was using hop extract for the recipe.
3. Make it lighter in color by reducing the crystal and/or boiling for 60 mins instead of 90 and/or increasing the dextrose. I scaled up the recipe and went with 14lb 2row, 0.6lb carapils, 0.6lb crystal, 12 oz dextrose. The clone was more orange and the Pliny more yellow.
4. Switch to RO water and the additions in the chemistry primer on this site. So far I've ignored water chemistry in my brews. I have high pH, high alkalinity tap water with chlorine and I think it's limiting the full potential of my brews.

All said the above differences were not significant. With a few tweaks I don't think a blind test would pick the real Pliny. Again it could simply be my execution of the recipe. Caveat emptor.

 

[The_Glue]

Just bottled this beer.

After i removed the dryhop bag it used to have this amazing centennial driven floral and fruity smell. Then i closed the fermenter and bottled it only 3 days later.
During bottling that beautiful smell disappeared and it developed an agressive but one dimensional citraish lemon smell. Will the floral stuff come back after bottle conditioning?

So it seems like the centennial returned and everything tastes awesome at week 3 but i think i can already taste something cardboardish in the background. I had several months with my previous IPAs until oxidation kicked in.
This was the first time i used a hopbag for dryhopping. Maybe that caused the oxidation? (i dryhopped it only once btw to avoid oxidation)

 

[Adaman05]

I've had oxidation once from dry hopping and vowed never to let that happen again. Now I mainly dry hop in a co2 filled keg.


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[jwbeard]

I made the mistake of dumping the first round of dryhops in immediately after pitching the yeast, rather than waiting until fermentation was over...

This is my first foray into dryhopping, so I was wondering whether the impact (especially in such an overwhelmingly hoppy beer) would be big enough to require a 'corrective' dryhopping after fermentation and before doing the second dryhop. Thoughts?

 

[brewski09]

I've experimented with dryhopping towards the end of active fermentation as it is supposed to change the hop characteristics but not at the beginning. Since it doesn't add bitterness when you dryhop I'd smell the sample when the first dryhop is complete and see if you thought it needed more.


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[Homercidal]

Tasted this for the first time this weekend. Awesome! I've had clones that were good, but having a fresh bottle of the original has made me want to brew it up at home.

I have read a couple of recipes online. One from BYO 2004, one form Zymurgy 2010(2014) and neither have amarillo, yet I know from the website that the current recipe does use amarillo. So I am wondering exactly what is the hop bill for their current recipe?

 

[runkelia]

I made the mistake of dumping the first round of dryhops in immediately after pitching the yeast, rather than waiting until fermentation was over...

This is my first foray into dryhopping, so I was wondering whether the impact (especially in such an overwhelmingly hoppy beer) would be big enough to require a 'corrective' dryhopping after fermentation and before doing the second dryhop. Thoughts?

I have heard that you dry hopped too early if you walked into the room your fermenter is in and it smells like hops. I would bet the same happened with your batch.
I would dry hop again personally.

 

[lolznrofls]

One thing I see alot of guys totally discount..how about using a hop shot at 90 like the northern brewers kit I just purchased

 

[thomas2357]

I'm still a newbie, only 6-7 batches of extract brewing under my belt. I purchased the Pliney extract kit from MoreBeer. Airlock activity had stopped, never had much(I use a 6.5 gallon bucket), and wanted to see how things were going after 12 days in primary. I opened it up and I could still see the yeast working their magic. At that point I was unsure to test or just out the lid back on and ignore it for a few more days. Well I decided to test it and it was at 1.020 which gave me an abv of 8%. With the beer at its target FG, this is where I was torn as to what to do. Do I let it sit in primary longer or transfer it now so I don't expose it to oxygen again a few days later. I decided to transfer it and within minutes of sealing it up, the airlock was going. What would other people have done here?

Also tried the sample from the hydrometer, wow! Best beer I have made to date. Uncarbonated, unfinished, and not dry hopped and it tasted amazing.

 

[lolznrofls]

Put it in the secondary..i hit my secondary with a little co2 to help with the oxidation problem..then dry hop the hell out of it like any pliney clone does..enjoy

 

[MMJfan]

I'm still a newbie, only 6-7 batches of extract brewing under my belt. I purchased the Pliney extract kit from MoreBeer. Airlock activity had stopped, never had much(I use a 6.5 gallon bucket), and wanted to see how things were going after 12 days in primary. I opened it up and I could still see the yeast working their magic. At that point I was unsure to test or just out the lid back on and ignore it for a few more days. Well I decided to test it and it was at 1.020 which gave me an abv of 8%. With the beer at its target FG, this is where I was torn as to what to do. Do I let it sit in primary longer or transfer it now so I don't expose it to oxygen again a few days later. I decided to transfer it and within minutes of sealing it up, the airlock was going. What would other people have done here?

Also tried the sample from the hydrometer, wow! Best beer I have made to date. Uncarbonated, unfinished, and not dry hopped and it tasted amazing.

Personally, I just keep mine in the fermenting bucket the whole time. There are mixed views on this, but I have found that, for the most part, with most of the beers I brew, transferring to secondary seems to be an unnecessary step. I just take a hydrometer reading after about 7 days and then take another reading the next day. If it's the same reading, it's ready for dry hopping.

 

[lolznrofls]

Idk about same bucket..although I do one bucket for my stouts..this pliney clone right now is got mad fermentation going on..im surprised I haven blown the lid off my pail even with the blow off tube..hehe..wow is all I can say

 

[MMJfan]

Idk about same bucket..although I do one bucket for my stouts..this pliney clone right now is got mad fermentation going on..im surprised I haven blown the lid off my pail even with the blow off tube..hehe..wow is all I can say

So why is it ok to leave a stout in the same bucket and not an IPA?

 

[jnacey]

I'm still a newbie, only 6-7 batches of extract brewing under my belt. I purchased the Pliney extract kit from MoreBeer. Airlock activity had stopped, never had much(I use a 6.5 gallon bucket), and wanted to see how things were going after 12 days in primary. I opened it up and I could still see the yeast working their magic. At that point I was unsure to test or just out the lid back on and ignore it for a few more days. Well I decided to test it and it was at 1.020 which gave me an abv of 8%. With the beer at its target FG, this is where I was torn as to what to do. Do I let it sit in primary longer or transfer it now so I don't expose it to oxygen again a few days later. I decided to transfer it and within minutes of sealing it up, the airlock was going. What would other people have done here?

Also tried the sample from the hydrometer, wow! Best beer I have made to date. Uncarbonated, unfinished, and not dry hopped and it tasted amazing.

You're going to introduce way more oxygen from racking it to another vessel than you will from opening the lid really quick. Unless you're going to be bulk aging a beer for an extended period of time (like 4+ months) without any wild yeast or souring bacteria involved, you'll not want to rack to secondary. There really isn't any benefit to it, and besides, the potential for contamination and oxidation jumps dramatically.

 

[lolznrofls]

You're going to introduce way more oxygen from racking it to another vessel than you will from opening the lid really quick. Unless you're going to be bulk aging a beer for an extended period of time (like 4+ months) without any wild yeast or souring bacteria involved, you'll not want to rack to secondary. There really isn't any benefit to it, and besides, the potential for contamination and oxidation jumps dramatically.

Im gonna rack to the secondary for a few reasons..im a noob and lack the forethought of hop bags and this brew has almost 12 ounces of hopps..so I want to dry hop in the secondary then rack into a keg..im not worried about oxidation..I intend to purge my secondary with a nice blast of CO2 and ive got a brand new racking cane so as long as I over sterilize things this should be good.

 

[lextasy23]

I plugged this into Beersmith2 and it shows 245 IBUs????

(Actually, I doubled it to 10 gallons and entered in the doubled recipe, but it's the same thing).

Does that seem right??

 

[lolznrofls]

I plugged this into Beersmith2 and it shows 245 IBUs????

(Actually, I doubled it to 10 gallons and entered in the doubled recipe, but it's the same thing).

Does that seem right??

In a round about way yes..keep in mind your tongue cant detect over 200 ibu.. I dont know how accurate beersmith is on this one..because how do you accurately can you judge the ibu of those two hop shots in the northern brewer kit.

 

[Olive Drab]

i kegged this over the weekend. the sample i took was way too bitter for my tastes but I think will be perfect in a few weeks when carbed. The citrusy notes are amazing and the high alcohol is subtle.

 

[Btaz]

Thanks for everyone who has contributed to this forum. It takes a while to digest all the information. I'm planning to try a clone at this and tried to suck in all the information I could about this recipe and others' experiences. I'll chime back in when I can do a comparison, but in the mean time here is my summary of the the PTE recipe on my own little blog page.

 

[lolznrofls]

Thanks for everyone who has contributed to this forum. It takes a while to digest all the information. I'm planning to try a clone at this and tried to suck in all the information I could about this recipe and others' experiences. I'll chime back in when I can do a comparison, but in the mean time here is my summary of the the PTE recipe on my own little blog page.

Good read!!! My kit (plinian legacy from northern brewer) used the Amarillo as fwh..