Pitching two older liquid yeast packets. NEED HELP ASAP!

[KarmaCitra]

So I am brewing two beers this weekend, one of which I finished yesterday. Because it was a spur of the moment brew weekend, I didn't make starters, so I decided to pitch two packets of WLP001 for each. I didn't bother looking at the dates of manufacture on them, and they were made AUGUST 15! So now I'm afraid I didn't pitch enough... I'm hoping it's a RDWHAHB situation, but I am now debating on pitching this single pack of US-05 that I have (although the date on that one is 1/18...) My second beer is mashing in, so any help would be greatly appreciated! If I need to run back to the store, I can do that to get fresher yeast packs.

 

[KarmaCitra]

I know viability is the issue here, and based on these calcs from Mr malty, I would need to pitch 22 packs without starters, based on the manufacturing date.

 

[waldoar15]

I would not personally trust them without a starter and would make a trip to the LBHS to ease my mind. But that's just me.

 

[KarmaCitra]

LHBS doesn't have anymore WLP001, just called them

 

[KarmaCitra]

I checked the last time I did this (pitch two packs, no starter), and it was 2 months after manufactured date. That produced one of the best beers I've made, same OG as the one I'm brewing now. This would be 5 months old, however.

 

[JohnSand]

If it doesn't take off as expected, I would pitch the 05. Pitching it anyway won't do any harm.

 

[hopness monster]

I would definitely have 05 on standby. I would personally go ahead and pitch it. I ruined a batch with diacetyl once due to a long lag time, but that was because I drank to much and forgot to aerate

 

[passedpawn]

I'd add more yeast now. Many times I've bought old Wyeast smack packs on discount and they didn't expand at all - not viable. I'm not doing that anymore.

S-05 is better than nothing - get it. And get extra. Keep it in the fridge and those packets are good for many years.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Any harm in waiting until tomorrow see if anything takes off? I'll go get 05 in case it doesn't.

 

[KarmaCitra]

That'd be 48 hours post pitch for the first batch, 24 hours for the one I just finished.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You could try cranking the heat up to get it going and see where it goes. 48 hours lag isn't great but not exactly over the top. Or just add the 05 but then your not going to know what yeast took off. Not that it matters much, they're the same thing pretty much..I'd give it 12 hours more at 70 degs liquid temp..if your fermenters clean infection should be a non issue

 

[KarmaCitra]

I'm going to wait another 24 hours and see. If nothing, I'll pitch US-05 in each batch.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Update: about 36 hours or so after I pitched the first two packs in the first batch, theres now activity in the blowoff (5 seconds between bubbles), so at least there is something going on in there.

 

[JohnSand]

Good, let us know how it works out.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Will do! I still fear that I may have underpitched, but we will see.

 

[passedpawn]

There's no risk in adding more yeast. But there's tons of risk if the yeast doesn't take off.

So, my suggestion is 1) never use questionable yeast (or if you do, at least proof it first with a starter), and 2) have some dry yeast handy and use it without hesitation if you have doubts.

 

[KarmaCitra]

I'm still going to swing by the LHBS and get some US05

 

[KarmaCitra]

There's no risk in adding more yeast. But there's tons of risk if the yeast doesn't take off.

So, my suggestion is 1) never use questionable yeast (or if you do, at least proof it first with a starter), and 2) have some dry yeast handy and use it without hesitation if you have doubts.

So even though there appears to be activity, you would still pitch a pack of US-05?

 

[KarmaCitra]

Look like the one I pitched about 24 hours ago is also showing some blowoff activity, but it's very slow. I know it's not a good indicator of what's happening in the bucket, but it just doesnt appear to have "taken off" quite yet

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Pry the lid open for a peak...less chance of infection than you've been led to believe

 

[KarmaCitra]

I did (not really worried about opening the lid at this stage), and the first batch had some krausen. Second, nothing. I went ahead and put some US-05 in, just to be safe. Given that now I have liquid and dry yeast in there, not really a good idea to wash the yeast afterward, right?

 

[KarmaCitra]

Based on the calcs, I did underpitch so hopefully this second round of yeast will get me to the levels I need to be at.

 

[flars]

I did (not really worried about opening the lid at this stage), and the first batch had some krausen. Second, nothing. I went ahead and put some US-05 in, just to be safe. Given that now I have liquid and dry yeast in there, not really a good idea to wash the yeast afterward, right?

WLP001 and US-05 are supposed to be the same strain of yeast. Right after you rehydrated the US-05 dry yeast it became liquid yeast. No problem harvesting the yeast. I would skip the rinsing though and just pour from the fermentor for the harvest.

Mrmalty will show a big under pitch but Mrmalty is not considered the best calculator. Take a look at these two pitch rate/starter calculators.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[KarmaCitra]

Yeah, I typically use the brewunited calculator with good success.

 

[Yeastieboy]

I bet they ferment out and are totally fine.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Given that now I have liquid and dry yeast in there, not really a good idea to wash the yeast afterward, right?

Its perfectly fine to reuse the yeast. You just don't know how of each is in there. Not that it matters there they same yeast strain. Don't wash it either. Just rack your beer off the cake and dump it in a mason jar. Nothing else, next brew day open the jar and pitch...simple simple. I use a hop bag to keep the hops out of the yeast during boil and dryhop

 

[KarmaCitra]

I've always rinsed the yeast to harvest, to cut down on any trub. Any reason why you don't? Just curious.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I've always rinsed the yeast to harvest, to cut down on any trub. Any reason why you don't? Just curious.

Just another step and possible infections for something not necessary..I use more reused yeast than fresh yeast and never had problem so why bother. I do use the yeast for the same style beer so I don't get mixed flavors. Like IPA yeast for an IPA and Irish red yeast for an Irish red and so on

 

[passedpawn]

So even though there appears to be activity, you would still pitch a pack of US-05?

I would. I think the hesitation for most brewers (maybe you, maybe not) is the cost of additional yeast. But it you consider what glass of craft beer anywhere sells for, you realize that a packet of yeast amortized over 5g of beer is nothing.

 

[KarmaCitra]

I would. I think the hesitation for most brewers (maybe you, maybe not) is the cost of additional yeast. But it you consider what glass of craft beer anywhere sells for, you realize that a packet of yeast amortized over 5g of beer is nothing.

Agreed. I went ahead and pitched one pack into each batch. One of the batches had krausen so I sprinkled on top. Hopefully they dive down.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Because I'll harvest this yeast for several generations, cost isn't much of an issue, to your point. I was mainly just concerned with the underpitch