Pitching direct from fridge to wort

[NYShooterGuy]

I'm wondering if I killed off my yeast today. I removed a 1 liter starter of White Labs WLP351 from the refrigerator, gave it a quick stir, and then pitched it directly into my 80° wort. I never allowed the starter to warm up to room temperature before putting it into my wort, and now I wonder if I have any viable yeast cells left.

 

[JLeuck64]

I'm wondering if I killed off my yeast today. I removed a 1 liter starter of White Labs WLP351 from the refrigerator, gave it a quick stir, and then pitched it directly into my 80° wort. I never allowed the starter to warm up to room temperature before putting it into my wort, and now I wonder if I have any viable yeast cells left.

Ask yerself how you would feel jumping in a hot tub?

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, you definitely don't want to do that again.
But you likely just stunned the hell out of the yeast.
Give it at least another full day before panicking

btw: 80°F wort?

CHeers!

 

[NYShooterGuy]

btw: 80°F wort?

Yes sir.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Ask yerself how you would feel jumping in a hot tub?

Depends on how hot and who's gonna be in the there with me!

 

[mxstar21]

I'm wondering if I killed off my yeast today. I removed a 1 liter starter of White Labs WLP351 from the refrigerator, gave it a quick stir, and then pitched it directly into my 80° wort. I never allowed the starter to warm up to room temperature before putting it into my wort, and now I wonder if I have any viable yeast cells left.

Was there a reason for doing this? What are you expecting? Sounds like a mistake in my opinion.

Edit-Mis-read. You are probably fine, may get some different flavors, but I think all be fine.

 

[Queequeg]

Personally i don't think the yeast will be stress going from cold no food to warm food. The problem you might have is it's reaction following the subsequent cool from 80F

 

[eadavis80]

I would expect a big ass lag time. See what it does 72 hours after pitching.

 

[Gameface]

Personally i don't think the yeast will be stress going from cold no food to warm food. The problem you might have is it's reaction following the subsequent cool from 80F

This guy gets it.

The metabolism of yeast is controlled mostly by temperature and available food supply.

Heat things up and they get more active. Give them food an they get more active. Heat things up and give them more food and the yeast know the party has started.

Unfortunately, if yeast are too active they create off flavors. Also, if yeast cool down rapidly they go to sleep, even if the temps are still in their temp range.

So pitching into 80F wort is the very biggest problem here. Way bigger than pitching straight from fridge to wort.

I certainly hope you don't plan to ferment at 80F. If you don't, expect a major lag time after you hit your desired fermentation temp. Only after everything stabilizes at a low will the yeast start to wake back up and get to work. The 80F wort will have been a major wake up call, but you're gonna put 'em back to sleep getting to a reasonable fermentation temp somewhere in the 60's.

 

[Likefully]

As you can see from the responses, what you have done is not advisable or ideal but you will be fine. I think the WLP yeasts are robust enough to handle 80F.

I don't know if its too late, but I think the only thing you can do now to improve the fermentation (if fermentation hasn't begun) is aerate your wort.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Was there a reason for doing this? What are you expecting? Sounds like a mistake in my opinion.

What, did you think I was bragging with this post? Of COURSE it was a mistake!

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I certainly hope you don't plan to ferment at 80F. If you don't, expect a major lag time after you hit your desired fermentation temp. Only after everything stabilizes at a low will the yeast start to wake back up and get to work. The 80F wort will have been a major wake up call, but you're gonna put 'em back to sleep getting to a reasonable fermentation temp somewhere in the 60's.

Pitching at 80°F is as per directions. Fermentation is at 68-70°F.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I don't know if its too late, but I think the only thing you can do now to improve the fermentation (if fermentation hasn't begun) is aerate your wort.

Aerated by pouring 5.5 gallons of said 80°F wort from kettle to fermenter, then back again, then into fermenter. Had just enough room in the 6.5 gallons fermenter with all the foam to close the lid.

 

[Likefully]

Aerated by pouring 5.5 gallons of said 80°F wort from kettle to fermenter, then back again, then into fermenter. Had just enough room in the 6.5 gallons fermenter with all the foam to close the lid.

If fermentation hasn't begun - do that again, but times three. Seriously.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

If fermentation hasn't begun - do that again, but times three. Seriously.

If I can, I will. Unfortunately, being away from home for 36 hours at a time will.make this difficult.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I pulled some yeast slurry directly from the fridge and pitched it into some 68° wort and was seeing activity within 12 hours of pitching.

Though, from what I've read slurry has "proven" itself, while starters need to grow further.

 

[Gameface]

Pitching at 80°F is as per directions. Fermentation is at 68-70°F.

As per what directions.

It's typically a bad idea to pitch hot and then chill. As I mentioned, the yeast go inactive during the temp drop. That or they become very over active and it makes it very hard to get the temp down.

Most people prefer to pitch at a low temp, like 60F and then let it rise to their desired fermentation temp.

I'm not familiar with that yeast or what you're trying to accomplish, but if the recommendation was to ferment at 68-70 I'd typically ferment 63-65F, but that's just me.

 

[mxstar21]

What, did you think I was bragging with this post? Of COURSE it was a mistake!

No, sorry. I mis-read your post and edited it. Didn't mean to sound like a jerk.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

No, sorry. I mis-read your post and edited it. Didn't mean to sound like a jerk.

I understand. I hope my response was taken as lighthearted as it was ment.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

As per what directions.

As per THESE INSTRUCTIONS on the kit I purchased from Midwest Supllies

Make sure you have cooled your wort below 80 degrees. If you want to take a hydrometer reading, do it now. Do not return any samples back to the fermenter. At this point you need to aerate the wort. You can stir vigorously, pour back and forth between two sanitized buckets or try one of our aeration systems to inject oxygen into the wort. Yeast need oxygen in order to do their job, so try not to skip this step.

6. Fermentation If you are using dry yeast, you can re-hydrate the yeast in luke-warm water (90-100 degrees), let it stand for 10 minutes and pour into the wort, or you can just sprinkle the dry yeast over the top of the beer.

 

[mxstar21]

No way! You are good. Not sure what I was thinking and re-read my post. Your post was taken just fine. I felt bad for sounding like a jerk instead of offering help or advice.

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

Yea i did this once, except the wort was closer to 100F... I felt really dumb. Luckily I had an extra packet of dry yeast in the fridge to pitch once it did cool!(insted of waiting the long lag time to see if i killed it or not) Another reason to keep extra yeast handy!

Hey, let us know how much lag time there is. Just curious myself.

 

[Magnus314]

I often pitch a cup or two of refrigerated slurry into 85 degree wort and put it into the swamp cooler to get it all down into the 60's within a couple of hours.

Works great, no off flavors.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I often pitch a cup or two of refrigerated slurry into 85 degree wort and put it into the swamp cooler to get it all down into the 60's within a couple of hours.

Works great, no off flavors.

That's good to know. I usually allow my starter to warm up to room temperature and then pitch, but I was obviously not paying attention, and pitched it straight from the fridge.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Hey, let us know how much lag time there is. Just curious myself.

I've been away from the home since I pitched it and placed the fermenter in the "Cool Brew" insulated jacket, but the wife told me the airlock was keeping her awake last night (~32 hours after pitching)

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Yup. Yeast is converting sugars to alcohol and carbon dioxide...if the odor coming from the airlock is any indication of how the beer will taste, this will need a lot of "clean up" time to be palatable.

 

[Gameface]

Yup. Yeast is converting sugars to alcohol and carbon dioxide...if the odor coming from the airlock is any indication of how the beer will taste, this will need a lot of "clean up" time to be palatable.

Any idea how long it took to get down to your target fermentation temp and if there was significant fermentation activity before then?

Like I mentioned, when you pitch hot the yeast get going much more quickly, which some people might like. But fermentation is an exothermic reaction so that yeast activity will make reducing the temp harder, and then if you overpower the heat generated by the yeast you're pretty much telling them to slow down their metabolism pretty dramatically. Then you get to your target temp and they need to ramp back up. It's a lot of opposing forces at work when you go that route.

If there was considerable fermentation before the temp came down then you could be dealing with fusel alcohols and certainly more esters and phenols than you'd likely want. That stuff won't really clean up, it'll just be there. Even worse, if the alcohol level is high enough and the food level dropped far enough the yeast might not get active again once they reach your target temp and you'll end up with an under fermented batch.

On the other hand, pitching cool yeast into cool wort and then letting the temp rise to your target let's everything really work together. As the yeast gain activity they start producing heat and the wort is naturally rising in temp anyway. All the signals align and the yeast slowly build momentum. Once you hit your target fermentation temp you can control it there pretty easily because your yeast are not overactive and producing too much heat, but they have been moving in the right direction from the start and are at full strength to consume all your fermentables like it's a picnic in the park.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Any idea how long it took to get down to your target fermentation temp and if there was significant fermentation activity before then?

I threw in a 2 litter frozen bottle of water into the insulated "Cool Brew" jacket after I pitched the yeast. Within 1 hour the airlock was bubbling about 1 per sec. It stopped bubbling after about 3 hours, but buy then I had to leave my home.

Unfortunately I also got stuck at work for a day, but the wife let me know the airlock was keeping her awake (approximately 30 hours after pitching) and I figured the Temps were between 21° and 23° Centigrade.

I took the fermenter out of the jacket and placed it in my closet since it's over 72 hours after pitching. Sulfur was what I smelled coming from the airlock, and my schedule didn't allow for any other inspection of what the inside looked, smelled or tasted like.

My first few beers had that sulfur smell and never turned out well, so I don't have high hopes for this one.

 

[Gameface]

I threw in a 2 litter frozen bottle of water into the insulated "Cool Brew" jacket after I pitched the yeast. Within 1 hour the airlock was bubbling about 1 per sec. It stopped bubbling after about 3 hours, but buy then I had to leave my home.

Unfortunately I also got stuck at work for a day, but the wife let me know the airlock was keeping her awake (approximately 30 hours after pitching) and I figured the Temps were between 21° and 23° Centigrade.

I took the fermenter out of the jacket and placed it in my closet since it's over 72 hours after pitching. Sulfur was what I smelled coming from the airlock, and my schedule didn't allow for any other inspection of what the inside looked, smelled or tasted like.

My first few beers had that sulfur smell and never turned out well, so I don't have high hopes for this one.

Humm, sulfur is common in lagers and it does clear up. Is it possible you're smelling phenols? This yeast description (WLP351) says "This strain produces a classic German-style wheat beer, with moderately high, spicy, phenolic overtones reminiscent of cloves." Maybe you're smelling cloves?

 

[mongoose33]

As per what directions.

As per THESE INSTRUCTIONS on the kit I purchased from Midwest Supllies

Make sure you have cooled your wort below 80 degrees. If you want to take a hydrometer reading, do it now. Do not return any samples back to the fermenter. At this point you need to aerate the wort. You can stir vigorously, pour back and forth between two sanitized buckets or try one of our aeration systems to inject oxygen into the wort. Yeast need oxygen in order to do their job, so try not to skip this step.

6. Fermentation If you are using dry yeast, you can re-hydrate the yeast in luke-warm water (90-100 degrees), let it stand for 10 minutes and pour into the wort, or you can just sprinkle the dry yeast over the top of the beer.

I'm missing something here. The directions said to cool below 80 degrees, not to 80 degrees. I'd guess that this is the maximum tolerable temp plus a little room for error.

I went to the White Labs site to check on the optimum fermentation temp for White Labs WLP351 and the listed optimum fermentation temperature is 66-70 degrees.

Was it just a misread of the directions? Not being critical, been there, done that. But I'd have cooled the wort into the 60s before adding the starter.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I'm missing something here. The directions said to cool below 80 degrees, not to 80 degrees. I'd guess that this is the maximum tolerable temp plus a little room for error.

My mistake for not being ultra specific. I cooled the wort to 80, in the fee minutes between turning off the wort chiller, removing the kettle from it's icebath, placing it on the counter, going to the fridge to get the starter, putting the starter in the bottom of the fermenter, pouring back some.of the stater beer into the flask.to get the last remaining chunks of yeast, and then going back to the kettle, I assumed the wort cooled of another .5°F (thus being under 80°F).

Of course, I think I once heard something about assume...

As far as the White Labs recommendations for fermentation temps, I was attempting to get the "Cool Brew" jacket down to my usual 66°F fermentation temps, but again as I've said at least 2 other times in this thread, I was away from my home and couldn't replace frozen water bottles, nor could I rely on my spouse to do it for me.

All in all, I KNOW all the mistakes I've made with this beer, but I will refer back to original ponder of how the yeast's life was impacted by this first and other mistakes.

 

[Gameface]

I almost wish recipe kits didn't come with instructions. I know they pretty much have to, but they offer so much bad instruction. And it's not like it's flat out wrong, it's just very far from best known method. Beer is resilient and can overcome deviations from "perfect procedure" but bad kit instructions almost encourages new brewers to make mistakes. They try to make it easier for people with all sorts of different equipment and situations to be able to complete the steps, but it'd be nice if they also said that 80F is the highest temp you'd ever really want to pitch yeast into and that it's preferable to get the wort at or below your target fermentation temp.

Can't really blame people for following the directions the kit makers provide. Why would most people even question their process if it followed the directions?

 

[Gameface]

OP, I hope you are taking my participation in this thread as intended, which is to be helpful and provide info that might be useful in the future.

As far as recommended temps for yeast are concerned, yeast manufacturers are a lot like kit makers when it come to their recommended temps. They want to tell you that it's okay to ferment at temps that you can achieve without a lot of fancy equipment. Some yeasts actually do work well around 70F. But there are even more that say 70F is in their range when in fact they taste much better well below that.

The yeast you used if for hefeweizen, and a lot of the time people want significant phenolics, in which case fermenting towards the top of the recommended temp range is the right thing to do. But that yeast produces phenolics no matter what and you'd probably get all you wanted fermenting at or below their suggested temp range. If the bottom temp was 66F I'd probably ferment at 65F. Not always true, but the lower you go the cleaner the beer will taste.

I make mostly English style ales and use English strains of yeast that have a tendency to produce a lot of esters. The esters are part of the style and they should be there, but I certainly don't go out of my way to get as much as possible. The esters will be there. I use WY1469 more than any other yeast and they recommend 64-72F. No way in hell I'd ferment with it above 70F. I try to pitch at 60F and let rise to 63F where I hold it for 3 days after active fermentation has started, then let it rise to 68F for the duration, until I cold crash it. When I enter beers from that yeast to competitions the judges frequently note that they can taste the "traditional english yeast character" which is good. But I am sure if I were to ferment high they would mention that the esters were overpowering, which would be bad.

Long story short, unless you're really looking to boost the esters and phenolics, consider the low end of the temp range to be the optimal temp for that yeast, if not a little below that.

The reason they don't list lower temps is because they don't want unhappy customers with batches that had extra long lag times or that didn't attenuate fully. But if you know how to work the yeast (good pitch rate, good aeration, precise temp control) you can get very good results below their recommended temp range.

 

[user 4295]

Do a Google search for "cold pitching". I've been doing it for years with great results. I will agree that the only problem here was that the op cold pitched into 80 degree wort. I chill mine to about 60 degrees and cold pitch my starters after decanting off the spent wort. Short lag times, vigorous, complete fermentations with no off flavors.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Looking through my subscribed posts, I realized I never followed up with this one that I started. The Bavarian Wheat beer that I was making with Blackberry extract in the bottling bucket did have a lot of unwanted phenolic flavors. Even with 5 ounces of blackberry extract in the bucket, the off flavors seeped through.

In the future I will have to be more careful and ferment at lower temps. I just recently acquired a used kezzer from a friend that exited the hobby, so I'm able to control fermentation temps much better when no kegs are occupying the space inside at 38°F.

Thank you to all that participated and gave me advice.