Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[Dgallo]

152...but there is a pound of lactose so I look at it more like 1.068 - 1.011 which would be 83%. I could be doing this calculation wrong, but because it’s unfermentable I don’t really factor it into the attenuation percentage. Happy to be corrected though.

No, you’re correct, I completely overlooked the lactose because I only glanced at the grains

 

[HopsAreGood]

Update: Here’s a photo of the finished beer. This beer went grain to glass in only 7 days so it will definitely mature as it conditions. I will say that it is incredibly soft and full bodied without being slick or oily, which is what I have experienced with high percentages of flaked oats. So I’d say this experiment was definitely a success. 50% malted oats and a pound of lactose all the way.

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 665912Update: Here’s a photo of the finished beer. This beer went grain to glass in only 7 days so it will definitely mature as it conditions. I will say that it is incredibly soft and full bodied without being slick or oily, which is what I have experienced with high percentages of flaked oats. So I’d say this experiment was definitely a success. 50% malted oats and a pound of lactose all the way.

Did you need any rice hulls?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Did you need any rice hulls?

I do brew in a bag and didn’t use any. I ask the people at my lhbs to crush everything extra fine, but I’m sure you could use them if you want.

 

[BeerFst]

Did you need any rice hulls?

the malted oats have a very hard husk, and basically act as rice hulls. I think i read that in the UK they use Oat hulls in place of Rice hulls.

I just did a 50% oats beer myself on Saturday, though split between malted (31%), flaked (15%) and GNO (4%) and it was a very quick and easy lauter.

The malted oats in general are very "hard" and skinny, so you need to drop down the gap on your mill or double mill to accommodate. I had mine set to .026". Even after that small gap, the hull is still very much in tact, but missing all its interior bits. Hit all my gravities spot on and at 75% efficiency.

 

[TravelingLight]

the malted oats have a very hard husk, and basically act as rice hulls. I think i read that in the UK they use Oat hulls in place of Rice hulls.

I just did a 50% oats beer myself on Saturday, though split between malted (31%), flaked (15%) and GNO (4%) and it was a very quick and easy lauter.

The malted oats in general are very "hard" and skinny, so you need to drop down the gap on your mill or double mill to accommodate. I had mine set to .026". Even after that small gap, the hull is still very much in tact, but missing all its interior bits. Hit all my gravities spot on and at 75% efficiency.

I'm thinking this is what happened on the beer I brewed Saturday. Grist:

49% Pilsner
42% Malted Oats
6% White Wheat
3% Raw Wheat

I double milled the raw wheat (More Beer milled it, then I ran it through my mill again). Missed my OG 7 points low. As I milled the malted oats I was thinking maybe I should mill those twice? But I didn't. My mill is set to .035, IIRC. I didn't have trouble with malted oats before today, but this is the first time I've used such a high percentage.

 

[BeerFst]

I'm thinking this is what happened on the beer I brewed Saturday. Grist:

I double milled the raw wheat (More Beer milled it, then I ran it through my mill again). Missed my OG 7 points low. As I milled the malted oats I was thinking maybe I should mill those twice? But I didn't. My mill is set to .035, IIRC. I didn't have trouble with malted oats before today, but this is the first time I've used such a high percentage.

I MIAB so I like to keep it around .028, but I'm not religious about it. funny thing happened saturday, i had filled the grain hopper and then started my drill, but it sounded like full grains smacking the bottom of my bucket. made me double take and say wtf, i made it so narrow. turns out drill was still in reverse from whatever i had done before....

 

[flintoid]

I've been trying to figure out why my efficiency drops off when my malted oat content rises in the grain bill, and I think you guys just nailed it. I'm stuck using the mill at my local HBS, so I'll give it a shot of double milling just the malted oats before mixing in everything else.

 

[Dryyourbeers]

Did you need any rice hulls?

i’ve had no issue using 50% naked malted oats and that’s with Grainfather too. Just doesn’t seem to cause the same issues that flaked oats do.

 

[isomerization]

So I brewed my take (described above) this past weekend as well. Do to an unforeseen inventory error, I had less malted oats than expected and had to up the Flaked to keep it at 50% oats. Ended up with 32% flaked, 18% malted.

I do BIAB and after a LOT of squeezing, hit my pre-boil volume. Efficiency wasn’t affected, but combined with an unexpected boil over (triggering the smoke alarm) and the wiring on my IC pump unexpectedly dying, this wasn’t my favorite brew night. I also ended up with a lot more trub than normal (combination issue from extra squeezing and high level of flaked oats?), so this beer better taste damn good lol.

 

[beervoid]

For those of you that use BS, it seemed to me the default potential yield of tf malted oats is set to high.
I adjusted it down to 1.029 (62%).

 

[TravelingLight]

For those of you that use BS, it seemed to me the default potential yield of tf malted oats is set to high.
I adjusted it down to 1.029 (62%).

Just opened mine to look, and it's at 1.033. Is that what yours was set to before? (Didn't know if it differed between versions of BS) Out of curiosity, what made you choose 1.029? Thanks.

 

[BeerFst]

Brewers friend has it as 28ppg

 

[beervoid]

Just opened mine to look, and it's at 1.033. Is that what yours was set to before? (Didn't know if it differed between versions of BS) Out of curiosity, what made you choose 1.029? Thanks.

In scott janish his article about oats there is info on it.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Just waiting for my take to finish fermenting. Pre fermentation was very smooth and sweet when finished I can see this turning out quite well. Latest gravity reading was around 1.017 and yeast is starting to slow just a few more days I'd imagine.

 

[brew703]

Had an oat cream IPA today and I have to say the mouthfeel was like no other.
Very creamy.
In order to obtain this is it more about the percentage of oats or a combination of oats and water chemistry?
Is 50% combo of flaked and malted oats the correct % for the creaminess?

 

[isomerization]

Had an oat cream IPA today and I have to say the mouthfeel was like no other.
Very creamy.
In order to obtain this is it more about the percentage of oats or a combination of oats and water chemistry?
Is 50% combo of flaked and malted oats the correct % for the creaminess?

Haven’t sampled my iteration yet, but my starting point was to take a NE IPA recipe (I added lactose, but don’t know if necessary), bump up bittering a tad and (try to) use malted oats at 35-50% of the grist. I had to sub in flaked oats, but if I make this style again it will be mostly malted next time.

 

[brew703]

Haven’t sampled my iteration yet, but my starting point was to take a NE IPA recipe (I added lactose, but don’t know if necessary), bump up bittering a tad and (try to) use malted oats at 35-50% of the grist. I had to sub in flaked oats, but if I make this style again it will be mostly malted next time.

Thanks. Thinking about taking a stab. Don't want to use any lactose so going to maybe aim for 50% flaked and malted oats.

 

[Cathedral]

Just wanted to drop in and say I took this recipe and bastardized it to make a Red ale, because that's what I was craving at the time. It's cold crashing now; I'm kegging it tomorrow so it's ready for the weekend. I'll post pictures when it's done, just for sharts and gaggles.

 

[brew703]

I'm having a hard time finding Oat Malt. Neither of the brew shops carry it. Flaked Oats I can get as Golden Naked Oats.
Is Thomas Fawcett Oat malt the same? If not is there a suitable substitute?
https://www.txbrewing.com/thomas-faucett-oat-malt.html

 

[BeerFst]

I'm having a hard time finding Oat Malt. Neither of the brew shops carry it. Flaked Oats I can get as Golden Naked Oats.
Is Thomas Fawcett Oat malt the same? If not is there a suitable substitute?
https://www.txbrewing.com/thomas-faucett-oat-malt.html

There’s at least one more brand, but flaked and GNO are not the same as normal oat malt.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/canada-malting-company-superior-oat-malt.html

Flaked isn’t malted at all, so it can’t convert in its own but with base grain it can be. Oat malt just lets you push the percentages of oats way higher. GNO is technically malted but it’s basically a crystal Oat malt so again it can’t self convert. It’s also huskless whereas standard oat malt has a husk(A rather hard one at that), and replaces the need for Rice hulls. A Hugh percentage of flaked will get rather gummy in the mash, not sure about a large percentage of GNO but I’m not sure you’d want to do that for flavor reasons.

I had my LHBS special order them for me the first time I used them but they charged me $4dollars a pound...pretty steep. Since then I just get it online 10 lbs at a time very now and then

 

[brew703]

There’s at least one more brand, but flaked and GNO are not the same as normal oat malt.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/canada-malting-company-superior-oat-malt.html

Flaked isn’t malted at all, so it can’t convert in its own but with base grain it can be. Oat malt just lets you push the percentages of oats way higher. GNO is technically malted but it’s basically a crystal Oat malt so again it can’t self convert. It’s also huskless whereas standard oat malt has a husk(A rather hard one at that), and replaces the need for Rice hulls. A Hugh percentage of flaked will get rather gummy in the mash, not sure about a large percentage of GNO but I’m not sure you’d want to do that for flavor reasons.

I had my LHBS special order them for me the first time I used them but they charged me $4dollars a pound...pretty steep. Since then I just get it online 10 lbs at a time very now and then

So the Thomas Fawcett I linked is what I need, correct? I definitely dont want to go overboard w/flaked oats.

 

[Dgallo]

So the Thomas Fawcett I linked is what I need, correct? I definitely dont want to go overboard w/flaked oats.

Norther brewer carries malted pats and actually give a good crush on them if you don’t have your own grain mill

 

[Dryyourbeers]

There’s at least one more brand, but flaked and GNO are not the same as normal oat malt.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/canada-malting-company-superior-oat-malt.html

Flaked isn’t malted at all, so it can’t convert in its own but with base grain it can be. Oat malt just lets you push the percentages of oats way higher. GNO is technically malted but it’s basically a crystal Oat malt so again it can’t self convert. It’s also huskless whereas standard oat malt has a husk(A rather hard one at that), and replaces the need for Rice hulls. A Hugh percentage of flaked will get rather gummy in the mash, not sure about a large percentage of GNO but I’m not sure you’d want to do that for flavor reasons.

I had my LHBS special order them for me the first time I used them but they charged me $4dollars a pound...pretty steep. Since then I just get it online 10 lbs at a time very now and then

Flaked oats are gelatinised during the flaking process so the starches are broken down there.

Also, I have used naked oats at 50% and had zero sparge issues. So I do not believe it is the husks that are responsible for them being easier to use in large percentages than flaked oats (or at least not that entirely). There must be something else, other than the absence of husks, that makes flaked oats harder to use in large quantities versus naked malted oats.

 

[brew703]

Here's what I have come up with.
50% Pils or 2Row
16.7% each Flaked oats, Malted oats and Golden Promise (may sub golden naked oats for the GP).
For hops thinking Citra and Vic Secret (2-1.5).
Yeast either Conan or 1318.
I don't want this grain bill to be overly complicated.
I'm skeptical about using Golden Naked Oats in this style, mainly because I want a very light color. Maybe split GP and GNO?
Thoughts?

 

[K_tile]

What about Briess Blonde Roast Oat Malt. Is it similar to those mentioned above?

 

[BeerFst]

Flaked oats are gelatinised during the flaking process so the starches are broken down there.

Also, I have used naked oats at 50% and had zero sparge issues. So I do not believe it is the husks that are responsible for them being easier to use in large percentages than flaked oats (or at least not that entirely). There must be something else, other than the absence of husks, that makes flaked oats harder to use in large quantities versus naked malted oats.

Talking out of shop here but the flaked still need to be mashed to convert. Just not cereal mashed to enable the enzymes to do their thing, or at least I believe that’s what I’ve read about flaked wheat.
Interesting about the GNO though, how did that come out? My latest only had a half pound which was 3.8%, Can’t say I’ve noticed too much in the beer so far but it’s just about finished up and waiting for the first dh. Didn’t add as much color as I had hoped tho

 

[Coffeeturnal]

What about Briess Blonde Roast Oat Malt. Is it similar to those mentioned above?

Roast oat is huskless and had no diastatic power.

In my experience, it's not bad, but at high percentages (~30%) it got a little astringent. I suppose that could have been something I did though, that beer had lots of frustrating things happen to it.

I wouldn't say avoid it, but give it a try in lower quantities first. I don't think it was for me.

 

[Dryyourbeers]

Talking out of shop here but the flaked still need to be mashed to convert. Just not cereal mashed to enable the enzymes to do their thing, or at least I believe that’s what I’ve read about flaked wheat.
Interesting about the GNO though, how did that come out? My latest only had a half pound which was 3.8%, Can’t say I’ve noticed too much in the beer so far but it’s just about finished up and waiting for the first dh. Didn’t add as much color as I had hoped tho

yes, that’s my understanding too but in this regard they don’t differ from oat malt. And both require a base malt, as neither has sufficient diastatic power. I guess my point was that there is nothing different required to ‘convert’ flaked oats than is required to ‘convert’ malted oats. Right? Or am I missing something?

Raw oats and flaked oats seem to be considered interchangeably in a lot of discussions I see but they are different and have different requirements and results.

 

[isomerization]

yes, that’s my understanding too but in this regard they don’t differ from oat malt. And both require a base malt, as neither has sufficient diastatic power. I guess my point was that there is nothing different required to ‘convert’ flaked oats than is required to ‘convert’ malted oats. Right? Or am I missing something?

Raw oats and flaked oats seem to be considered interchangeably in a lot of discussions I see but they are different and have different requirements and results.

You are missing something. The malting process develops the enzymes needed for starch conversion during the mash. Oat malt has gone through this process.

See:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00487.x

Good oat primer from Janish:
http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/