Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[VirginiaHops1]

How is that most likely the case? I would be good money they aren't adding .3 plato worth of maltodextrin into the beer. You would think they would write that down on the sheet if it occurred.

The creep didn't occur because the yeast was no longer active. Hop enzymes would break down existing starches into fermentable sugars - you would not see an increase in gravity because of this. You would only see a decrease if the yeast start to ferment it.

Is that a lot? 1 plato is 4 gravity points right? So they're increasing what, 1.5 gravity points? 1.016 to 1.018. I'd never heard of it until Janish mentioned it on the brulosophy podcast, but they're cranking out some great beers at Sapwood and if they're doing it I'm sure some others are. Just a theory though

 

[couchsending]

They’re definitely not adding maltodextrin to a beer that already has lactose and they want it to finish at 3 plato... that’s just common sense

 

[beervoid]

How is that most likely the case? I would be good money they aren't adding .3 plato worth of maltodextrin into the beer. You would think they would write that down on the sheet if it occurred.

The creep didn't occur because the yeast was no longer active. Hop enzymes would break down existing starches into fermentable sugars - you would not see an increase in gravity because of this. You would only see a decrease if the yeast start to ferment it.

I have to agree with you thats introducing maltodextrins seems silly and unlikely but there should still be plenty of yeast in suspension the day they introduce the dry hops.

It seems they did anticipate on it to happen or this batch just fermented out less then usual.

Perhaps the hop creep didnt happen as it doesnt always occur with some hops.
The raise on fg is perhaps purely from hop particles and oils in suspension.

 

[abrewer12345]

final product of my first attempt. sabro was a nice touch, body was nice too. a little darker than i pictured but tasted great and was a hit to all consumers. going to give this another whirl in a few batches.

 

[sicktght311]

My attempt came out great as well. Perfect body and rich'ness. Had a heavy bubblegummy ester at the beginning but was probably just suspended yeast. As it conditioned it smoothed out. Candied tropical flavors with tangerine, papaya, and a hint of lime. Citra and Cashmere, with Warrior for bittering.

 

[BeerFst]

Anyone have any idea what the new high density hop charge is in their Citra and mosaic beers?

I recall when they first announced it they mentioned it was a Haas product, but haven’t really seen anything else since. Around the same time Haas had released some resin products, or perhaps this is just steam distilled oils?

Edit: this is the product I was referring to
https://www.johnihaas.com/incognito/

 

[sicktght311]

Was just about to mention Incognito. Just another way of getting the same result i'm sure

 

[BeerFst]

Was just about to mention Incognito. Just another way of getting the same result i'm sure

They might be using less t90 but I think they are getting overall better aroma as compared to their non HDHC beers.

The testimonial from new Belgium is super interesting. They make this combo of t90 and incognito to make something they call liquid perfection. It’s used in voodoo ranger.

Since YVH is in collab with Haas now I reached out to see if they plan to sell it at the homebrew level, we’ll see how they respond

 

[TBryerton]

Anyone have any idea what the new high density hop charge is in their Citra and mosaic beers?

I recall when they first announced it they mentioned it was a Haas product, but haven’t really seen anything else since. Around the same time Haas had released some resin products, or perhaps this is just steam distilled oils?

Edit: this is the product I was referring to
https://www.johnihaas.com/incognito/

I was told something to do with Cannabis. Interesting that Haas has a grow permit.

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/b...cle_1ab84742-1143-11e9-9acb-6f6ae1aac487.html

 

[BeerFst]

I was told something to do with Cannabis. Interesting that Haas has a grow permit.

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/b...cle_1ab84742-1143-11e9-9acb-6f6ae1aac487.html

I don't quite follow..I was referring to beers made by Other Half with their "HDHC (high density hop charge)" they have done these with primarily their citra and mosaic beers, for instance More Citra than All Citra. so i dont follow what it has to do with weed.

That said i could totally see them possibly extending that technology into the cannabis field and recently read a thing about some NA cannabis beers, though i dont recall the brewery.

YVH hasn't responded to me about incognito.

 

[TBryerton]

I don't quite follow..I was referring to beers made by Other Half with their "HDHC (high density hop charge)" they have done these with primarily their citra and mosaic beers, for instance More Citra than All Citra. so i dont follow what it has to do with weed.

That said i could totally see them possibly extending that technology into the cannabis field and recently read a thing about some NA cannabis beers, though i dont recall the brewery.

YVH hasn't responded to me about incognito.

Sorry, I thought you were asking about their new dry hop process. I know absolutely nothing about weed but when I asked them about their new process referenced in the Double Red Chroma description that’s what they told me. Unfortunately I had consumed quite a bit of that specific beverage that day so I didn’t push the conversation any further.

 

[BeerFst]

Sorry, I thought you were asking about their new dry hop process. I know absolutely nothing about weed but when I asked them about their new process referenced in the Double Red Chroma description that’s what they told me. Unfortunately I had consumed quite a bit of that specific beverage that day so I didn’t push the conversation any further.

And I totally missed that too, I haven’t really been following their Rochester stuff and I know it makes it to Brooklyn every now and then but for some reason I just haven’t read those descriptions. Now you got me curious tho how weed might influence dry hopping

Edit: as I think about it I wonder if it’s grinder related, like they are using whole cone and grinding them up?

 

[Dgallo]

Edit: as I think about it I wonder if it’s grinder related, like they are using whole cone and grinding them up?

I can’t speak for OH but I know that Industrial Arts brewing does this with citra and Amarillo whole cones. They will grind them up right before the whirlpool and hopbacking. I watch a video where the head brewer said that he believes whole cones protect the lupulin glands better. He also noted that a lot of the compounds that have been shown to truly biotransform are in the leaf material. He only uses this method hotside because of the higher risk for oxidation and greater loss does not make it practical in the dryhop

 

[couchsending]

I know that Industrial Arts uses wholecone in a hopback, they talk about it. They didn’t mention adding wholecone to the whirlpool though. Have you seen that or heard them say that?

Slightly grinding up the whole cones to expose the lupulin makes sense but I doubt they’re talking about grinding it up too fine. I’ve used whole cone in a hopback for maybe the last 6 or so hoppy beers. Only one was fresh 2019 cones though. Rest were 2018 that had lost a bit of their luster. On one batch I did mess with putting the leaf in a small food processor I have and it definitely made the aroma pop however it also left a ton of Hop oil all over the inside of the food processor. Since then I’ve tried to just pull the cones apart instead of grinding them.

 

[Dgallo]

I know that Industrial Arts uses wholecone in a hopback, they talk about it. They didn’t mention adding wholecone to the whirlpool though. Have you seen that or heard them say that?

Slightly grinding up the whole cones to expose the lupulin makes sense but I doubt they’re talking about grinding it up too fine. I’ve used whole cone in a hopback for maybe the last 6 or so hoppy beers. Only one was fresh 2019 cones though. Rest were 2018 that had lost a bit of their luster. On one batch I did mess with putting the leaf in a small food processor I have and it definitely made the aroma pop however it also left a ton of Hop oil all over the inside of the food processor. Since then I’ve tried to just pull the cones apart instead of grinding them.

This is all I can find from the video I originally saw which was like an hour long. I’m almost certain in the original video they claimed their whirlpools are 60/40 pellet to cone. I’ll keep looking for the whole video

 

[BeerFst]

Leaf shredder is awesome.

someone (on Reddit maybe?) told me that isopropyl will take care of the residue but I still wouldn’t want to do it in my normal food processor, maybe a bullet or something dedicated.

I’m wondering if some vodka could do the same and then you could pitch into the beer that as well

 

[couchsending]

Leaf shredder is awesome.

someone (on Reddit maybe?) told me that isopropyl will take care of the residue but I still wouldn’t want to do it in my normal food processor, maybe a bullet or something dedicated.

I’m wondering if some vodka could do the same and then you could pitch into the beer that as well

A PBW soak took care of the residue. It’s a small little food processor. Can’t even fit an ounce of leaf in it. I probably won’t do it again.

 

[jigtwins]

Interesting thread. I have been brewing NEIPA's most of this year. One thing that I have found out is that yeast selection is not as important as having a good grain bill, hop selection. and water profile. Been using s-04 for a lot of my beers. Ferment on the cooler side around 62 to start. Raise to 66 near fg. Doing double dry hop additions a couple days apart for 3 days each. Firt addition @ about 65-75% attenuation.Try to limit oxygen as much as possible.Noticed a huge improvement in flavor and aroma fermenting cooler. Grain bill is pilsner malt 79.5%, golden naked oats 7.2%, flaked oats 7.2%, C-20 2.3%, Honey malt 2.3% and acid malt 1.4%( for ph adjustments). I use 2 hop varietys per batch. Add 1st addition @ 10 min left. just to get around 20 IBU's. 2 oz each hop @ 160 for 25 minute whirlpool. First Dry hop is 1.5 ounces of each hop for 3 days. 2nd dry hop is 2.5 oz of each hop for 3 days. I like to ferment for 10 days total. Depending on fg of course. This is based on a 5 gallon batch size. Comes out nice and juicy. Tons of aroma and delicious hop flavors. I think that the pilsner malt works well with this style by not imparting too much maltiness. Honey malt and the lighter crystal adds just a touch of sweetness that I like in this style. Water profile starts with ro water. Shoot for CA 80-100, NA 10-20, Cl 140-160
S04 50-75. Shoot for a PH of 5.2-5.4. I have not used any lactose yet. But would like to experiment with it soon.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I just had a tremendous cream other half (10% imperial oat cream ipa with Citra, Citra cryo, Idaho 7, mosaic, mosaic cryo) and as soon as I poured it and took the first sip the only thing I got was honey malt...that unmistakable incredibly sweet honey malt flavor and aroma. This is not a bad thing as I quite enjoyed the beer but I can’t remember ever detecting so much honey malt in an other half offering.

I wasn’t at all familiar with honey malt until I had a few of the lighthouse series beers from trillium, and also some of their harbor island series beers...now, as soon as I smell any beer with honey malt I can’t help but detect it immediately. It definitely adds a very strong, pronounced aroma and flavor that you probably either love or hate. For now I like it but I think if I had anymore than 1 or 2 it would probably become too sweet. If nothing else, I think it’s interesting that other half is using it. To me it virtually drowns out any and all hops.

 

[couchsending]

Most professionals who speak about using honey malt in hoppy beers say that 2% is the sweet spot, no more.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve seen numerous people say that you need to be careful to not use too much. 2-3% is what I’ve seen as well. I’m interested in trying some in an upcoming batch, I’m just hoping I won’t have 5 gallons of a beer that is way too sweet.

 

[couchsending]

At only 2% there are other things that would have a much bigger impact on the perception of sweetness in your beer.

 

[HopsAreGood]

At only 2% there are other things that would have a much bigger impact on the perception of sweetness in your beer.

Agreed. I guess what I’m getting at is I’d like to use enough where it is noticeable and beneficial to the beer, while not being overpowering or distracting. I suppose using 2% would be a good place to start.

While I enjoyed the other half last night, I would definitely not want to have that much of a honey malt presence in a beer that I made. I literally tasted no hops in it, just the honey malt. I experienced the same thing with two of the trillium light house beers.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/nauset-
lighthouse

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/gay-head-lighthouse

The first one is pale malt, honey malt, and el dorado. The second is the same but just subs in mosaic for the el dorado. Both of those beers, and the tremendous cream taste virtually identical to me. I wish I knew what % of honey malt was used in them. Oh well.

 

[beervoid]

Agreed. I guess what I’m getting at is I’d like to use enough where it is noticeable and beneficial to the beer, while not being overpowering or distracting. I suppose using 2% would be a good place to start.

While I enjoyed the other half last night, I would definitely not want to have that much of a honey malt presence in a beer that I made. I literally tasted no hops in it, just the honey malt. I experienced the same thing with two of the trillium light house beers.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/nauset-
lighthouse

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/gay-head-lighthouse

The first one is pale malt, honey malt, and el dorado. The second is the same but just subs in mosaic for the el dorado. Both of those beers, and the tremendous cream taste virtually identical to me. I wish I knew what % of honey malt was used in them. Oh well.

I think you are mistaking "honey malt" sweetness with sweetness of a 10% beer.
I personally find it hard to believe in such a big beer 2% honey malt would come through at all.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I think you are mistaking "honey malt" sweetness with sweetness of a 10% beer.
I personally find it hard to believe in such a big beer 2% honey malt would come through at all.

You may be right, but trust me when I tell you I’ve had numerous triple ipas in the 10-11% range that are completely different than what I am perceiving as the honey malt sweetness. Many of these have been from other half, the same brewery that made the beer I am talking about. I wouldn’t really consider them sweet at all, and detect zero of the honey malt flavor and aroma in them. Perhaps they used more than 2%?

There’s another brewery near me that has a running series of 10.5% TIPAs that aren’t sweet, and also have no trace of the honey malt flavor/aroma.

 

[couchsending]

It’s all the lactose in that Other Half beer, doubt it’s as much the honey malt. I’d bet if you were to degas that beer it’s FG would be well north of 1.020.

I would agree with you on those Trillium beers however. The honey malt was rather noticeable in those.

Honey malt It’s a 25 lovibond crystal malt. In modern hoppy beers I wouldn’t put much more than 2% of any crystal malt in my grain bill.

 

[TBryerton]

It’s all the lactose in that Other Half beer, doubt it’s as much the honey malt. I’d bet if you were to degas that beer it’s FG would be well north of 1.020.

I would agree with you on those Trillium beers however. The honey malt was rather noticeable in those.

Honey malt It’s a 25 lovibond crystal malt. In modern hoppy beers I wouldn’t put much more than 2% of any crystal malt in my grain bill.

Just tested OH Double Red Chroma. Came in right at 1.020

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just tested OH Double Red Chroma. Came in right at 1.020

Yup, which is totally acceptable for the style. The beer I was referring to was over the top with honey malt flavor and aroma. Lactose adds a slight sweet creaminess, but In my opinion no flavor and no aroma.

On a side note, I was at other half last Friday and every beer I had on draft was amazing. Had a triple Nelson, DDH enigma, space diamonds (all galaxy) and the amount of flavor that comes through in those beers is incredible. The amount of hop saturation, coupled with what I would perceive as extremely high quality hops, is simply amazing.

I’ve had tons of treehouse, trillium, tired hands, etc...but I really feel that when objectively tasting beers, other half is always in a league of its own. At least to my jaded NEIPA palette. Whatever they are doing is working.

 

[TBryerton]

Yup, which is totally acceptable for the style. The beer I was referring to was over the top with honey malt flavor and aroma. Lactose adds a slight sweet creaminess, but In my opinion no flavor and no aroma.

On a side note, I was at other half last Friday and every beer I had on draft was amazing. Had a triple Nelson, DDH enigma, space diamonds (all galaxy) and the amount of flavor that comes through in those beers is incredible. The amount of hop saturation, coupled with what I would perceive as extremely high quality hops, is simply amazing.

I’ve had tons of treehouse, trillium, tired hands, etc...but I really feel that when objectively tasting beers, other half is always in a league of its own. At least to my jaded NEIPA palette. Whatever they are doing is working.

I would agree with all of that with the exception of the comparison to TH.

I love OH, and I agree that they’re beers have been excellent lately, but TH is still way ahead IMHO.

 

[Dgallo]

I would agree with all of that with the exception of the comparison to TH.

I love OH, and I agree that they’re beers have been excellent lately, but TH is still way ahead IMHO.

I respect your opinion but I’m on the side of OH and EQ being better