old smack pack still good?

[grommit420]

i have a wyeast smack pack of 3333 german wheat dated from may 1st 2014 is it there anything still alive in there?? and what size starter would it take to do a viable pitch for a 5 gallon 1.050 batch

 

[TeeJo]

I have a batch of cider on the brew right now that was done with a year-plus old smack pack of 1098 ale yeast.

I started out by smacking the pack and letting it sit for a day, then poured the contents in to a partial liter bottle of apple juice and allowed it to sit for a couple days on the counter. It took two days to really come up to speed, but recovered nicely.

I would say that based on my (limited) and others related experiences, that there is life in there, just not very much compared to what there was when the packs were loaded. Small starter, step up from there. Can't be any worse than trying to start from slants or any of the other methods which store away very small qty's of yeast.

Can't help you with the starter size, but suggest looking around the web at the pitching calculator tools that are available. Most of which would rate your current source of yeast as zero viability.

TeeJo

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Try this one:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2015/02/starter-calculator.html

 

[grommit420]

i have used this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ and gone off from what beersmith tells me is left in the pack which is 8.5 billion cells so according to the brewers friend calculator if i do 2 back to back 2 liters starters i would end up with 188 billion cells which would give me what i need to ferment this brew hopefully i will be trying this out very soon i'll post on the results.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

FWIW, Two back to back 2 liter starters ends with closer to 400 billion cells in my experience.

 

[Evan_L]

Keep in mind that as your inocculation rate increases with each stepped starter, your yield will not be linear as the growth factor will decrease. It may take many steps to revive it to pitchable levels. If you were brewing in a week or two and had no other access to yeast i'd say go for it. If you can get a freshy before brew day don't bother. Not worth the $8 to waste hours of brewing trying to be a hero with old yeast. Don't forget that is the most important ingredient in beer.

 

[grommit420]

I have to get my yeast shipped as no lhbs around here carry some but i got 1 pound of dme lying around that i can make starters with. So evan are you saying that the calculator in using is giving me a false reading?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

See here for details about growth and inoculation rates:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2015/02/yeast-starters-stirred-vs-not.html

In a nut shell, low inoculation rates only lead to low growth if there is very limited oxygen. With adequate oxygen, the growth rate will be slower, but the yield is about the same.

 

[PoppinCaps]

I just made a starter out of smack pack dated Jan 2013. They're still there if stored properly, they just need time. Do a small 500ml starter and keep it going until you see activity. Let it finish, crash, decant and add 1.5L more wort. That should give you plenty of yeast for that brew in my experience.

 

[TeeJo]

" So evan are you saying that the calculator in using is giving me a false reading?"

To be clear, the calculator is not giving you a reading of anything. It will give you an estimate, based on a set of assumptions about what is going on with the yeast growth.

You can try building up the remaining live yeast cells with a starter, or you order in new yeast.

Me, I'd run a starter and see what that got me, then pitch that into another starter, etc.

Essentially, you are wanting to build a volume of yeast that will settle out of the starters. The pitch rate calculators will give you an estimate of how many yeast cells there are in a Milliliter of settled slurry. Go from that to figure out if you have enough or need to build yet another starter.

TeeJo

 

[grommit420]

Thank you all for the info and guidance! I'm going to put the yeast in a 1 liter starter sometime today depending on how much time the pack inflates.

 

[kh54s10]

Check out: http://yeastcalculator.com

It gives a lot of information about stepped starters. You will need at least a couple of steps. I would make the first step 250ml of 1.025 wort to energize the yeast for larger,higher gravity steps.

 

[TeeJo]

That calculator at least accounts that there will likely be 'some' surviving yeast in an old pack.

TeeJo

 

[grommit420]

Just a lil update i smacked the pack and 5 hours after i put it in a 1liter starter @ 1.030 the pack inflated very slightly. So far so good and there was an awesome aroma coming off that yeast definitly getting that banana clove thing