Maybe it really is. I just try to figure out why I never got that in my unintentionally fruity summer Stouts...
Off-flavors with S-04/English ales
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Maybe it really is. I just try to figure out why I never got that in my unintentionally fruity summer Stouts...
The "so4 flavor" to me is a foul-ish tart flavor, and not pleasantly fruity like other English strains can be.
Maybe there were inconsistencies in the production? I really cannot imagine that flavour coming out of the 04 I had and I really brewed a lot with it. It was basically the only yeast I used for half a year or so...
I couldn't agree more! I absolutely hate that yeast. Every time I've used it I could barely drink the beer it produced.
timeasterday
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You guys are scaring me. I'm planning on brewing a batch of winter ale this weekend and the kit came with S-04. This will be my 3rd batch of beer and 1st time using this yeast.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
What is your favorite UK strain?
madscientist451
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I'd invest in some WL-002; its a very reliable yeast that can be re-pitched many times without problems and you can even use it in cider. I've stored this yeast for months in a jar in the back of the fridge and it always "wakes up" quickly and does what its supposed to do. One vial can be used for many batches so besides a little work saving it, the cost is competitive to using dry yeast.
My current jar of 002 was originally purchased about 2 years ago, but it keeps working fine ( I don't use it for every beer I make) so I haven't discarded it yet.
My current jar of 002 was originally purchased about 2 years ago, but it keeps working fine ( I don't use it for every beer I make) so I haven't discarded it yet.
How are you saving your yeast? Just overbuilding starters or washing yeast cake?
It depends on what I'm making. American IPAs are great with Wyeast 1335, but for an ESB I love 1318.
This ^
And this ^
madscientist451
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After I siphon the beer out of the carboy, I just swirl the leftover beer around, get as much of the yeast dissolved as possible, then
dump it into a quart jar. I used to "wash" the yeast but stopped doing that a few years back, its just not necessary. For the next batch, I'll use about 1/2 of the jar of saved yeast. Its not real scientific or the "right" way to do it, but it seems to be working for me.
Report back on this: I completely forgot I also had another beer in the (very unfinished) basement which was sitting around 60F/15C for the past month in the primary. Flavor was off right from the start-I'd tried to use a different yeast but the starter didn't take so I just tossed in S04 with the same off-flavors. MLHBS called the smell/taste 'hospitaly', and said they stopped using S04 themselves years ago. I'll try a simple pale malt bitter with a Mangrove Jack strain and with fresh biscuit malt after the holidays and see how that takes-I'm dying to get back to having fresh English Ales about! Flying through Heathrow, actually, tomorrow, and plan on a solid 2hr session of as many bitters as I can manage 
user 70770
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I just finished an English bitter with s-04 and I definitely get the tart character. Yeast produces more compounds than just alcohol and CO2 and this particular strain, the whitbread B, just produces more of those in the form of various organic acids. Although I’ve definitely tasted commercial English beers with a similarly strong tart/aldehyde type character, those are not what people normally recognize as modern English bitters. I think the whitbread B strain is just old school and would be representative of beers produced over a century ago. If you look popular English beers like fuller’s or boddington, those are noticeably softer and seem to better represent people’s expectations nowadays. If you want to try something a little different, seek out Conniston’s blue bird bitter or Morland Hen’s Tooth as examples with character similar to s-04. So there may be nothing wrong with your process and you simply don’t care for the old school character of that yeast.
I should have read that thread earlier.
I did a Brown with S-04, that was kind of funny. Not really bad, just not really right either and I blamed it on myself not being too familiar with the style. I used the same yeast (another generation) in an IPA, with no issue (but that can be just as well the amount of hops). I used some of the malts from this Brown in a Lager. And before you get all over it, it was one of those brews that also included cleaning out some small amounts of leftover malts.
While I contribute some of the flavour to the yeast, there is certainly something with the malt that is part of it in my case.
I did a Brown with S-04, that was kind of funny. Not really bad, just not really right either and I blamed it on myself not being too familiar with the style. I used the same yeast (another generation) in an IPA, with no issue (but that can be just as well the amount of hops). I used some of the malts from this Brown in a Lager. And before you get all over it, it was one of those brews that also included cleaning out some small amounts of leftover malts.
While I contribute some of the flavour to the yeast, there is certainly something with the malt that is part of it in my case.
Do you have a favorite english strain without the tart acidic character?
user 70770
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I prefer the whitbread A strain as my go to English strain. As far as I know, the only available version is Wyeast 1099 (the 1098 being the tart B strain). The 1099 is much less tart and leaves a bit more residual sugar so your beer with have a richer body. Otherwise I’ve had good experience with Wyeast 1968/WLP002 which is the fuller’s strain. As long as you keep their fermentation above 64F, and your water has appropriate pH, you’ll make incredible beers with that one. I’ve also been curious about Wyeast 1318 London ale III which is supposedly the Boddington strain. But I don’t have experience with that strain beyond the characteristics it imparts to Boddington which I love.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Apart from the obvious point that Boddies are based nowhere near London (nor Manchester these days :-( ), I've always had a bit of a problem with the identification of 1318 as "the" Boddington's strain. It doesn't account for them allegedly losing their yeast in the early 1980s - around the time they changed the recipe so it was completely different. It's plausible that they could have received new yeast from a London brewery - Courage has been suggested - but if the corporate history is so messy then it's hard to say what is "the" brewery yeast.
Ron Pattinson has a recipe for the 1987 version if you're interested.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
When I finally get around to brewing my planned Oatmeal Milk Stout, I'm going to pitch one pack each of Danstar Windsor and Fermentis S-04 dry yeasts. This will be for roughly 6 gallons to the fermenter, and a target OG of 1.050.
I’ve never used Maris Otter so i’m going to plan a MO smash with a light to moderate dose of EKG and I’ll ferment with the 1099 to get a good feel for that British yeast, my only experiences have been the Nottingham and s-04 and haven’t like either one
I keep saying I’m going to try a liquid strain i just need to friggin brew!!!! lol
And I’ll need to also brew the same smash but try the 1968 or 002
user 70770
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Definitely let us know how it turns out! A smash with MO and EKG will be yummy.
JONNYROTTEN
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I made a red/octoberfest type beer using 04 yeast. It had the most nasty dirty diaper smell and taste from day one till 2 months old. I was going to dump it but never got around to it. Just pulled a pint last night after returning from vacation. Turned into an awesome beer. Slight tart fruitiness..Just goes to show that sometimes time is all that is required
user 70770
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Perhaps s-04 really benefits from longer conditioning. My special bitter that I brewed with it spent about 4 days in primary before I added hops and let it sit for 4 more days for a total of only 8 days in primary before kegging. Maybe next time I’ll let it sit for a full 2weeks before adding hops because I noticed the beer improving quite a bit after two weeks in the keg.
Ok, FINALLY I have found a post of someone having the same issue as me. Regardless of anything I have tried to avoid this issue it keeps popping up and I’ve also come to the same conclusion...S-04 and S-05 have pretty much been the only yeasts I have used and it happens each and every time I use it. They all have this slight but noticeable “off” flavour that in my opinion changes the taste of the beer enough for me to basically dump it.
So, does anyone have a yeast of choice to use? I usually make IPAs, amber ales, stouts/porter.
Thanks!
So, does anyone have a yeast of choice to use? I usually make IPAs, amber ales, stouts/porter.
Thanks!
I should also mention I just installed an inline water filter and use campden tablets for the water I use while brewing. I hoping this, in combination with using different yeast from here on out, will fix my issue for good!
I don't think there are many complaints at all about US-05 (maybe I just haven't heard about them). But maybe it's not the yeast. There are many ways to get off flavors.
Sounds more like an ongoing infection to me.
I thought so as well but I literally just upgraded my brewing system to brand new as well as brand new fermenters. All soaked in star san. The 2 brews I did with the new equipment I used s-04 in so the jury is still out on whether it was the yeast or equipment. Nonetheless, I'll soon know.
However, my question was what yeast most of you all use for ales?
tegman
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Dry - US-05 & Nottingham mostly.
Liquid - Becoming a fan of Imperial A38 Juice. Mostly stick with Wyeast beyond that (1056, 1084, 1318, etc.)
Want to try some of those Kveik yeast strains this summer.
Well, it depends
For US Style Ales, I mainly use US05 or Nottingham.
For English dark ales (Stouts, Porter) I preferably use S04 or sometimes also Nottingham.
For English bitter and ale nut to blonde ales with an abv below 5%, I really really like imperial yeast pub. But this one is really low attenuating, so you want to have about 10% simple sugar within the recipe and mash really low.
