Oakham Ales ( UK )

[thehaze]

Hello,

I really like JHB, Citra, Best Friend, Bishops farewell from Oakham Ales. JHB and Best Friend are for me one of the most easy drinkers pale ales/bitters.

I am wondering how do they get that really dry, crisp, minerally finish/mouthfeel in the beer? Has anyone come close to replicating anything similar? There is gypsum in the water, but not only gypsum. I am thinking maybe they have high Cl and Ca in the water, with the sulfate being lower than Cl. It sounds wrong, but I would really like to brew something close to these beers.

Any input from people that have tried the beers and maybe tried to brew similar brews, is welcome.

Thank you.

 

[Miraculix]

Hello,

I really like JHB, Citra, Best Friend, Bishops farewell from Oakham Ales. JHB and Best Friend are for me one of the most easy drinkers pale ales/bitters.

I am wondering how do they get that really dry, crisp, minerally finish/mouthfeel in the beer? Has anyone come close to replicating anything similar? There is gypsum in the water, but not only gypsum. I am thinking maybe they have high Cl and Ca in the water, with the sulfate being lower than Cl. It sounds wrong, but I would really like to brew something close to these beers.

Any input from people that have tried the beers and maybe tried to brew similar brews, is welcome.

Thank you.

I think citra was one of the first beers I bought in the UK. I liked it! Never tried to brew it though.

I had one of their ales from a pumping tap in a pub once... Didn't work that well. Those American hops based beers should have at least medium carbonation imo.

Never tried to brew it myself, but curious to see what comes up!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Oakham is only about 30km from the headquarters of British Gypsum, and the influence of Burton is strong there. So although I assume their water was originally surface water from Rutland Water, they would probably do a full Burtonisation.

Probably worth looking around some of the British forums like Jims, more likely to find someone there who has either brewed it or who has direct knowledge of their process.

Their beers can be great on cask, just need to find them in the right pub....

 

[Miraculix]

Oakham is only about 30km from the headquarters of British Gypsum, and the influence of Burton is strong there. So although I assume their water was originally surface water from Rutland Water, they would probably do a full Burtonisation.

Probably worth looking around some of the British forums like Jims, more likely to find someone there who has either brewed it or who has direct knowledge of their process.

Their beers can be great on cask, just need to find them in the right pub....

It was one of their very much American hop flavour focussed beers. I'll doubt that it was the fault of the pub in this case, I just don't like an American tasting ale served with British carbonation. I like British ales this way, even the hoppy ones, but as soon as these typical American grapefruit/lime flavours start to really come through, my taste buds expect moderate to high carbonation and crispness or high bitterness matching residual sweetness.

It is a question of personal taste, I guess.

 

[thehaze]

Would it be correct to get Ca levels over 100 ppm in the mash, with maybe 100 Cl and around 200 ppm sulfate? My starting water is soft, with a 7.2 pH and low alkalinity. Can I avoid that tangy/sour chalkiness some NE beers have it? I never could indulge more than one NE beer at a time... especially those were the green pellet/vegetal astringency and chalkiness are up front in both aroma and flavour.

 

[Miraculix]

Would it be correct to get Ca levels over 100 ppm in the mash, with maybe 100 Cl and around 200 ppm sulfate? My starting water is soft, with a 7.2 pH and low alkalinity. Can I avoid that tangy/sour chalkiness some NE beers have it? I never could indulge more than one NE beer at a time... especially those were the green pellet/vegetal astringency and chalkiness are up front in both aroma and flavour.

NE?

 

[thehaze]

New England... unfortunately, I live in a country where the style is not well-represented. Most New England IPAs smell and taste the same: green hop pellet, astringent, chalky, no discernable hop aroma and flavour... just vegetal, grassy, mouthpuckering examples.

 

[ProblemChild]

New England... unfortunately, I live in a country where the style is not well-represented. Most New England IPAs smell and taste the same: green hop pellet, astringent, chalky, no discernable hop aroma and flavour... just vegetal, grassy, mouthpuckering examples.

QUite unfortunate. While I am shying away from them as a result of NEIPA overload, they are quite spectacular when done well. Now to go off on a tangent, I see under your name you have a Lithuanian Farmhouse ale. Care to share a recipe? Love to have a good example of that to make for my father.

 

[Miraculix]

New England... unfortunately, I live in a country where the style is not well-represented. Most New England IPAs smell and taste the same: green hop pellet, astringent, chalky, no discernable hop aroma and flavour... just vegetal, grassy, mouthpuckering examples.

I don't like those... If I want grapefruit juice, I buy grapefruit juice.

Burtonised water has a different effect, most certainly not chalky. It is mineraly and somehow gives a dryer perception. It also boosts the bitterness a bit. You could brew a small batch in which you really go borderline with sulfate levels close to 300 and chloride around 200, then your will see what it does to beer. I did this once and didn't like it, but later I found the same thing in Marston's IPA, which is supposed to have a similar water.

Some people like it, some don't. My personal sweet spot is around 120 sulfate, 100 chloride. But this is very much depending on ones personal taste. I highly recommend experimenting with the same beer, brewed with high levels and low levels of minerals. It's easy to imagine how it would taste somewhere in between, than your can scale accordingly.

 

[ProblemChild]

I don't like those... If I want grapefruit juice, I buy grapefruit juice.

Burtonised water has a different effect, most certainly not chalky. It is mineraly and somehow gives a dryer perception. It also boosts the bitterness a bit. You could brew a small batch in which you really go borderline with sulfate levels close to 300 and chloride around 200, then your will see what it does to beer. I did this once and didn't like it, but later I found the same thing in Marston's IPA, which is supposed to have a similar water.

Some people like it, some don't. My personal sweet spot is around 120 sulfate, 100 chloride. But this is very much depending on ones personal taste. I highly recommend experimenting with the same beer, brewed with high levels and low levels of minerals. It's easy to imagine how it would taste somewhere in between, than your can scale accordingly.

Tons of sulfate and grapefruit definitely can be off-putting. If the flavors are not bright and refreshing then I would rather not have it when citrus is involved.

 

[thehaze]

Lithuanian Ale:

70% W. Pilsner
30% W. Bohemian Pilsner
25 IBUs
25 gr Mandarina Bavaria BBC --- 30'
25 gr Mandarina Bavaria BBC --- 1'
25 gr Motueka --- 1'
OG: 1.050
FG: 1.005
5.9% ABV
Mash at 149F/65C for 65'
Boil for 90'
Fermented quickly and bottled at day 11.
Mash water: Ca: 50 ppm / Mg: 3 ppm / Na: 3 ppm / 25 ppm Cl / 75 ppm SO4

Bottled conditioned. Very good at 5-7 days in the bottle. I kept a few bottles and at 2 months, it is 100% clear. The yeast does not stick to the bottom of the bottles.

 

[ProblemChild]

Lithuanian Ale:

70% W. Pilsner
30% W. Bohemian Pilsner
25 IBUs
25 gr Mandarina Bavaria BBC --- 30'
25 gr Mandarina Bavaria BBC --- 1'
25 gr Motueka --- 1'
OG: 1.050
FG: 1.005
5.9% ABV
Mash at 149F/65C for 65'
Boil for 90'
Fermented quickly and bottled at day 11.
Mash water: Ca: 50 ppm / Mg: 3 ppm / Na: 3 ppm / 25 ppm Cl / 75 ppm SO4

Bottled conditioned. Very good at 5-7 days in the bottle. I kept a few bottles and at 2 months, it is 100% clear. The yeast does not stick to the bottom of the bottles.

Looks like something I would definitely like!!! Thank you

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Would it be correct to get Ca levels over 100 ppm in the mash, with maybe 100 Cl and around 200 ppm sulfate? My starting water is soft, with a 7.2 pH and low alkalinity. Can I avoid that tangy/sour chalkiness some NE beers have it? I never could indulge more than one NE beer at a time... especially those were the green pellet/vegetal astringency and chalkiness are up front in both aroma and flavour.

That's about the minimum for traditional British beers - full Burtonisation is a lot more, the main Burton aquifer is 800-1000ppm sulphate, but not many go to that strength these days. But NEIPAs qo chloride heavy, so if that's what you don't like then go sulphate heavy

 

[thehaze]

Mash water profile ---> 145 ppm Ca / 3 ppm Mg / 3 ppm Na / 100 ppm Cl / 200 ppm SO4
This can be achieved for my water, by adding 6.6 gr Gypsum to mash and the same amount for sparge, with 2.9 gr CaCl2 for mash and the same amount for the sparge. Bru'nWater tells me I need around 0.5 ml Phosphoric acid ( 75% ) in the mash to get the pH down to 5.4 and 1.2 ml in the sparge to keep the pH of the sparge water to around 5.4.

Would it yield a bitter, slighly minerally beer, without being too much?

95% Pilsner + 5% Chit/Carapils
ABV 4.4-5% ( max. )
40-50 IBUs
Hops at 60, 30, 15 and 1 minute in the boil. No whirlpool, no dry hop. Just around 5 oz hops at 1 minute with a quick cooling of the wort to around 60-70C ( usually takes 10-15 minutes, depending on the season - well water ). Whirlpool to get the trub settled at the bottom of my Grainfather, rest for 20 minutes and transfer to fermenter.

Hops Brewers Gold DE, Cascade US + Southern Cross NZ.

 

[Miraculix]

Mash water profile ---> 145 ppm Ca / 3 ppm Mg / 3 ppm Na / 100 ppm Cl / 200 ppm SO4
This can be achieved for my water, by adding 6.6 gr Gypsum to mash and the same amount for sparge, with 2.9 gr CaCl2 for mash and the same amount for the sparge. Bru'nWater tells me I need around 0.5 ml Phosphoric acid ( 75% ) in the mash to get the pH down to 5.4 and 1.2 ml in the sparge to keep the pH of the sparge water to around 5.4.

Would it yield a bitter, slighly minerally beer, without being too much?

95% Pilsner + 5% Chit/Carapils
ABV 4.4-5% ( max. )
40-50 IBUs
Hops at 60, 30, 15 and 1 minute in the boil. No whirlpool, no dry hop. Just around 5 oz hops at 1 minute with a quick cooling of the wort to around 60-70C ( usually takes 10-15 minutes, depending on the season - well water ). Whirlpool to get the trub settled at the bottom of my Grainfather, rest for 20 minutes and transfer to fermenter.

Hops Brewers Gold DE, Cascade US + Southern Cross NZ.

Just based on my personal experiences, that should work!
Maybe you have a small 1 gallon fermenter in which you can do a side by side comparison? Just fill it with the finished and boiled wort and add more Gypsum and CaCl2 till you reach something like 500 SO4 and 300Cl. This way you can do a nice side by side comparison.

I did this when I decided that I do not like it too minerally, personally.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Water is fine as a starting point, just be aware you can go higher. So you could add drops of gypsum solution to finished beer to get an idea of the effect, although it won't be quite the same as having that higher mineral content all the way from mash to beer as it affects reactions along the way.

Your grist is rather unconventional by British standards, but I understand you have to go with what you can get, I can't really guess how that will work out.

Don't go crazy on IBUs - a BU:GU of 0.7 to 0.9 is typical, my personal preference for a best would be 0.9 but you don't really want more - the aim is bitter but balanced with malt and yeast coming through, not a mouth of pure alpha.

5oz (in 20litres?) is generous, and I wouldn't be afraid of moving some to whirlpool or the fermenter.

 

[thehaze]

I usually aim and go for around 6 gallons finished beer ( trying to maximize what the Grainfather can put out ). I end up with 22-24 liters, depending on how much hops I use in the kettle. I guess I could add some hops to a whirlpool, to get more aroma out of them.