Northern Colorado-CMC group buy round 3

[ColoHox]

Hello everyone!

New for this year, CMC has started using Boulder Fermentation Supply as a distributor of their products for homebrewers.

I was told by CMC that BFS would provide us a discount for our continued support. Unfortunately, the discount we are receiving still includes a BFS markup, and a hefty one at that.

For the past 4 years, base malts were (on average) $44.50/50lb sack + freight.

The current price I received from BFS for base (2-row, pale, pils) is $75 + shipping.

White wheat, rye, and Belgian pale are $85; specialty malts $100-150.

Basically, prices are now 40% higher than the past 4 years of the group buy. If it's not clear from my typing, I am floccing pissed.

If you want to purchase a bag of CMC malt through BFS or another LHBS, you will pay $80. So really, we are not getting much of a deal.

I am currently communicating with CMC and BFS and have expressed my displeasure, so I might have an update soon. Please let me know if this is a deal breaker for you and if you have any comments that I could pass along to CMC.

 

[bondra76]

dealbreaker for me

it's obvious from all their recent activity that they want to distance themselves from home brewers. Sad.

Capital hungry I guess.

 

[blizzard]

Deal breaker from me as well. I've used their malt in the past and I love supporting a local product, but it isn't worth this price.

 

[Brad2287]

I agree those prices are also a dealbreaker for me. The quality is great and was willing to pay a slight premium over what I could buy other base malts for. They were never the cheapest option. At those prices I could buy comparable base malt at the per pound price and it might even be cheaper. It somewhat defeats buying in bulk if I am not saving money.

I try to support local and quality companies, but I will not do so when I am being price gouged.

 

[loctones]

Dealbreaker for me, as well. The original group buy I did from CMC was $0.60 per pound, which was an insane deal. I think $1/lb is a good deal for the quality, as well. $75 to $85 per bag is too much. Boulder Fermentation Supply's prices per pound for CMC malt have always been uncomfortably high.

I have had nothign but good experiences from Jason at CMC in the past. He is always a pleasure to do business with and that is another part of why I like to buy from CMC. Given that CMC is already a (relatively) local business and BFS isn't organizing or storing anything for us, I just don't see how adding BFS to the equation adds any value at all.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Ouch that is a lot...count me out as well. You can get CMC at 75$ already at other lhbs anyway, doesn't seem like they're cutting us a deal at all.

 

[loctones]

The current price I received from BFS for base (2-row, pale, pils) is $75 + shipping.

White wheat, rye, and Belgian pale are $85; specialty malts $100-150.

By the way, these are the pre-tax prices on BFS's website. Freight already included:
2-Row: $80
Pils: $80
Pale: $70
Wheat: $80
Rye: $90

In the case of pale and wheat, the "deal" we're getting is actually higher than what the store normally charges. And they're asking us to pay shipping on top of that.

 

[fosaisu]

Deal breaker here as well. I hope they'll be able to work something out, and thanks again to Colohox for working on this!

 

[LLBeanJ]

At those prices, I'd have to pass as well. Bummer.

 

[ColoHox]

Still negotiating, stay tuned.

 

[ColoHox]

I have updates from both Jason Cody at CMC and Adam from Boulder Ferm Supply.

Adam asked that I not post the details of his response on the forum, so if anyone would like specific details about the new group buy process for CMC and the pricing we were offered, please let me know and I will PM you.

Prices are still 25% higher than in the past.

 

[ColoHox]

Anyone know anything about Troubadour Malting Co?

They are a new, small maltster in Fort Collins.

http://www.troubadourmaltings.com/about/

 

[botigol]

I don't really know anything, but after watching their scrolling pics/descriptions on their home page, they have several breweries currently using their grains, including Oskar Blues and at least a few in Ft Collins.

 

[bondra76]

I would be open to a different grain company

 

[LLBeanJ]

I would be open to a different grain company

Same here. I'd also be open to a possible bulk buy from a LHBS if we can get some decent pricing on sacks from the big name maltsters. Naturally, I'd like to support the local maltsters, but in the end it comes down to what's affordable.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Throwing this out there...

I was in Hops & Berries today and asked the dude behind the counter if they would be interested in accommodating us for a bulk grain buy. He sounded very enthusiastic and thought that they would be very interested in that. However, Taylor, the manager, is the one I would have to talk to and, unfortunately, he was not in at the time so I couldn't get any actual info, so until I touch base with Taylor, I have no idea what we'd be looking at wrt pricing.

I'd be happy to pursue this further if there is interest. Let me know.

 

[fosaisu]

I'd definitely be interested in hearing what they could do in a group buy!

 

[ColoHox]

Throwing this out there...

I was in Hops & Berries today and asked the dude behind the counter if they would be interested in accommodating us for a bulk grain buy. He sounded very enthusiastic and thought that they would be very interested in that. However, Taylor, the manager, is the one I would have to talk to and, unfortunately, he was not in at the time so I couldn't get any actual info, so until I touch base with Taylor, I have no idea what we'd be looking at wrt pricing.

I'd be happy to pursue this further if there is interest. Let me know.

I've talked to Taylor before about this, and it is definitely doable. I wasn't sure if we could get enough interest from NoCO people, as many of the CMC group were from the Denver area, and there are plenty of LHBS closer to them. I guess we could get some details from Hops and Berries to find out what kind of numbers it would take to get a good price.

If we set something up, will you Denver-ish folks drive up here?

 

[bondra76]

If we set something up, will you Denver-ish folks drive up here?

Everything sounds good until you hear the price tag

If the price is right sure. I bet one of us could grab bags for others.

 

[loctones]

Everything sounds good until you hear the price tag

If the price is right sure. I bet one of us could grab bags for others.

Agreed. I don't mind driving up to Fort Collins if the price is good. It's a nice excuse to visit friends.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Okay people, I'm working on this now. Hops & Berries is very interested in working with us. Their next bulk malt purchase will not be until mid-January, so that's when this would all go down (assuming it goes down at all). Hopefully, everyone can wait that long. Also, whatever the prices end up being, there will be no additional charge for shipping, though I'm sure it will all be taxable at the local Fort Collins sales tax rate.

Before I can get prices, though, I need to know what you all want. To keep prices as low as possible, I think we need to be looking at products from a domestic maltster. In trying to go apples to apples with what we've bought in the past from CMC, we're looking at:

2-row
pale ale
pilsner
malted wheat
malted rye

We also had an option from CMC for a Belgian style pale malt, but I'm not sure any of the other domestic maltsters have an equivalent product. If you really want some Belgian Pale, let me know and I can it priced out from Castle Malting, which will come with a premium price, no doubt. If it's not a must have, then maybe plan on domestic pilsner instead.

Please post back with what you think you may be ordering (both variety and number of sacks). The more we order, the better our pricing will be. If you have a special request (e.g. Weyermann Pilsner, Maris Otter, etc. - just keep in mind these will probably be quite a bit higher in price than the domestic versions) let me know and I'll check into it.

I'll start...

4 bags total: 1x 2-row, 1x pale ale, 1x pils, 1x malted red wheat

Oh, and just to be clear: For now, I just need to give Taylor an idea of what and how much we'd be buying so he can give pricing. Posting your bag count and variety does not commit you to anything. Once we find out what we're looking at pricewise, we can decide if we want to pull the trigger and actually do this.

 

[rupert130]

Great Western NW pale ale malt x 1, Red Wheat x 1

 

[Brad2287]

I would get 2x 2 row, 2x pils at minimum. Maybe 1 x pale.

It would have to beat the sack prices at quirky or other Denver area homebrew store by a bit for this to be justifiable for me.

 

[bondra76]

Is it possible to get Golden Promise in this? I go through that stuff like nobodies business

 

[LLBeanJ]

Is it possible to get Golden Promise in this? I go through that stuff like nobodies business

Definitely possible. How many sacks?

 

[ColoHox]

Thanks for organizing @LLBeanJ

I'd take 2xPale, 1x2-row, 1xPils, maybe more if the pricing is good.

 

[fosaisu]

1x Pale, 1x Pils for me. Might buy a bag of wheat as well depending on pricing.

 

[bondra76]

Definitely possible. How many sacks?

I think I would do two sacks of Golden Promise. If anyone else was interested in splitting I would do 1/2 or 1/4 sack of crystal 20 as well.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Okay, so far we have:

5x 2-Row
5x pale ale
5x Pils
2x red wheat (+1 maybe)
2x Golden Promise

That's 19 (+1 maybe) sacks total. Anyone else? I'll give it a couple more days and plan on reporting the sack count to Taylor on Friday. If you think you may want some grain, now's the time to speak up.

 

[loctones]

Thanks for following up on and organizing this, LLBeanJ. Participation, for me, comes down to price, as going to Fort Collins is about three times as far as going to my LHBS, and they have pretty good bulk grain prices. That said, I love FtC and can always use an excuse to go up and visit friends.

I'd be in for one bag of pale ale malt and one back of pils malt. I haven't checked my stash in a while, so I might add one more bag of either pils or pale to that count.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Thanks for following up on and organizing this, LLBeanJ. Participation, for me, comes down to price, as going to Fort Collins is about three times as far as going to my LHBS, and they have pretty good bulk grain prices. That said, I love FtC and can always use an excuse to go up and visit friends.

I'd be in for one bag of pale ale malt and one back of pils malt. I haven't checked my stash in a while, so I might add one more bag of either pils or pale to that count.

No problem. I work in Niwot, so I could meet you around I-25/119 to drop of grain if that appeals to you. I'll go ahead and put you down for a bag each of pale and pils. Hopefully, the pricing will end up being decent, but we'll see.

 

[loctones]

No problem. I work in Niwot, so I could meet you around I-25/119 to drop of grain if that appeals to you. I'll go ahead and put you down for a bag each of pale and pils. Hopefully, the pricing will end up being decent, but we'll see.

Nice. I work in Longmont and live in Frederick, so I imagine we come close to crossing paths a couple of times a day.

 

[Cottonmouth]

I'll take 2-2 row and 1-golden promise if the price is right.

 

[beerinthebloodco]

I would be in for a bag of 2 row

 

[LLBeanJ]

All right, gang, the pricing is in. I think it looks pretty good, as it is fairly comparable to what we paid for Colorado Malting's products. The Golden Promise is considerably higher than the others, but that is to be expected due to the fact that it is imported and is a premium malt. Basically, we're getting 20% off of Hops & Berries' per pound price. All prices below include the FoCo sales tax and there are no shipping charges, so what is shown below is what we would pay per sack with no hidden or surprise charges...

Great Western Premium 2-Row $46.40
Great Western NW Pale Ale $46.40
Great Western Superior Pilsen $48.12
Great Western Wheat Malt $50.69
Fawcett’s Golden Promise $79.37 (55 lb bag)

Due to the large number of bags we're looking to purchase, Taylor stated that we could likely move the buy up if we wanted to, rather than having to wait until Hop & Berries does their next grain purchase around mid-January. Also, as with the previous group buys, we'd have to pre-pay upon ordering.

So, with all that said, who's in? For those who want to participate, when would be a good target date to pull the trigger and get an order submitted? Personally, I'm fine with doing it right away, but I'm also not in any hurry either, so after the first of the year is good for me too.

 

[loctones]

I'm in for two bags of pale ale malt. My preference would be to do it after the holidays.

 

[Yourrealdad]

So is it too late to get in on this? Just found this part of the forum.

I live in Glenwood Springs, but family is in the Fort and Denver, so I could have them pick it up or I could come down and grab it sometime.

Also if it is still open is there anyway to get a price on Belgian Pilsner? I think I got a sack at the Brew Hut for around $65 so would need to be less than that.

Don't want to be a pain at all so if I can't tack on an order that is ok.

 

[Brad2287]

These prices would save me $3-5 a sack when considering sales tax. I would still be down for for 4 sacks if I could meet some one near the Longmont exit to pickup. I don't know if it is worth it to make the trek all the way to hops and berries especially if it is at the north location. I would also prefer after the holidays as this time of year tends to be very chaotic.

Not trying to derail the group buy but for anyone in the metro area quirky sells golden promise for $66.50/55 lb sack.

 

[LLBeanJ]

So is it too late to get in on this? Just found this part of the forum.

I live in Glenwood Springs, but family is in the Fort and Denver, so I could have them pick it up or I could come down and grab it sometime.

Also if it is still open is there anyway to get a price on Belgian Pilsner? I think I got a sack at the Brew Hut for around $65 so would need to be less than that.

Don't want to be a pain at all so if I can't tack on an order that is ok.

No, it's not too late at all. It's looking like this thing won't actually go down until after the first of the year. I'll check pricing on the Belgian Pils.

 

[LLBeanJ]

These prices would save me $3-5 a sack when considering sales tax. I would still be down for for 4 sacks if I could meet some one near the Longmont exit to pickup. I don't know if it is worth it to make the trek all the way to hops and berries especially if it is at the north location. I would also prefer after the holidays as this time of year tends to be very chaotic.

Not trying to derail the group buy but for anyone in the metro area quirky sells golden promise for $66.50/55 lb sack.

I work in Niwot and am at I-25 & 119 four nights a week around 5:00, so we can definitely make arrangements that will save you a trip to FoCo.

I agree that the price on the GP seems a bit steep from H&B. Sounds like Quirky is a much better deal on that one.