New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[HopsAreGood]

Thinking of doing a split batch comparing crashing and dry hopping at crash temp vs crashing and warming up to 70F for dryhop. I like Juice, so I will use that. What is the temp to use for a colder dry hop with Juice to still get amazing flavors from the hops but avoid any yeast activity? I was thinking 50F like Aaron from New Anthem has been using or maybe 60F for a warmer variation that is hopefully cold enough.

I just kegged a beer about an hour ago that was dry hopped at 53 degrees for about 48 hours. It was crashed down to 42 prior to the dry hop at 53, then dropped back down to 42 after 48 hours at 53. The first sample was very promising. I listened to the new anthem podcast where he says they dry hop at 50 and the vitamin sea one where he says they dry hop at 55. So I split the difference more or less.

 

[couchsending]

Not sure if many people saw this but that NZ experimental HORT4337 has been named Nectaron. Kind of a dumb name but whatever. NZ Hops is pumping it that’s for sure. It doesn’t have the depth and complexity of Nelson but it’s not too far behind. To me it’s more Australian than NZ but without the weird “roughness” you can get from Aussie hops. That ginger/licorice sort of abrasive as to the flavor. The 4337 (and 9909) have had zero of that diesel or machine oil note. And seem to be lower in polyphenols than say Nelson, Riwaka, or Motueka.

BeerCo in AUS just got the 2020 lot in. I have zero affiliation with these guys but can’t say enough about the level of service and the quality of hops I’ve received from them. They even put the lot #s on the packaging which is cool if you know what to look for. My last shipment literally took 6 days to get from AUS to UT. I can send people 10% off codes if you want to DM me.

 

[anteater8]

Heavy polyphenol amounts can lead to astringency, harshness, and perceived bitterness in the beer. (Not ibu bitterness) In order to reduce the amount of polyphenols, or at least attempt to, you can try using a little bit less than you normally would, try dry hopping at cooler temperatures, consider shorter contact times, and really crash your beer hard and cold to drop out as much as possible. All of these will help but your mileage may vary. Time will always help but the above will get you to a more ready to drink beer faster.

I've been thinking about adjusting my grain bill specifically for these intense hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7). Scott Janish suggests that dialing back protein levels (flaked oats, wheat) could reduce green and aggressive flavors from polyphenols and myrcene. I typically use 3 lb of flaked oats in my recipe, which could be why my beers take weeks longer to condition if using just 2 oz of one of those hops in the dry hop. Anyone put this theory into practice?

 

[couchsending]

I've been thinking about adjusting my grain bill specifically for these intense hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7). Scott Janish suggests that dialing back protein levels (flaked oats, wheat) could reduce green and aggressive flavors from polyphenols and myrcene. I typically use 3 lb of flaked oats in my recipe, which could be why my beers take weeks longer to condition if using just 2 oz of one of those hops in the dry hop. Anyone put this theory into practice?

I don’t use any high protein adjuncts with any hazy beer and have no issues with “haze stability” or creating it for that matter.

The oil content and polyphenol load that these hops deliver has a serious effect on mouthfeel. Galaxy, Nelson, Vic Secret, and Enigma specifically. You don’t need nearly as many other “tools” to create body. Personally I’d try just 2 row and some Carafoam or 2 row and 2% of some low lovi crystalin yiur next beer with these hops. Think you’d be surprised at A: how much faster it’s ready and B: how hazy it is and stays.

 

[wepeeler]

I'll be using Strata for the first time in a NEIPA this weekend. My plan is to highlight Strata, but pair it with some hops that I know better for good measure. My first thought is Citra, Mosaic, Strata... but I'm curious if anyone has had more experience with Strata and has recommendations.

14 lb 2 row
3 lb flaked oats
0.75 lb wheat
0.25 lb honey malt

0.5 oz Warrior (19 IBU)
2 oz Mosaic whirlpool
2 oz Strata whirlpool
2 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Mosaic dry hop
4 oz Strata dry hop

I just made a Citra Mosaic Strata, and it came out fantastic. I used a touch of both Citra and Mosaic in the boil, but I treated Strata like Galaxy and prefer it after flameout and for dry hopping only. It's harsh. I used a 2:1:.25 ratio, and Strata still shines through. (I made an all Strata neipa first to see what it offers, and it was great but changed a lot over time. Started as straight pineapple juice, then got more earthy over the course of about 6 weeks. I prefer it as a complimentary hop vs a solo.)

How are you guys dealing with kettle trub for NEIPAs?

Last weekend I brewed my first attempt at a “real” NEIPA. This was also my 2nd brew on my new system using a 20 gal SS brewtech kettle (including the SS brewtech trub dam). After chilling I whirlpooled like crazy, let it settle for 25 min, but still had quite a lot of trub making its way into the fermenters… I guess this was due primarily to the high amount of hops used (approx. 1 oz/gal total hot-side hops). The first brew on this kettle was a more moderately hopped beer and I did not have such problems. Should I be concerned about this or should I not worry? I know there are different schools of thought regarding kettle trub. In my older system I believe I had always been quite successful at keeping most of the trub out of the fermenter, also for IPAs…That is why this is bothering me now a bit… a new system should be an improvement, not a regression . Thanks!

...by the way amazing thread, I learned a ton from you guys!!

I used to try to keep most of the trub out of the fermenter, but now I dump nearly everything into my fermenter, sans the last quarter gallon or so. I also muslin bag my whirlpool hops so none of that vegetal matter makes it into the fermenter. Never experienced off flavors or head retention issues from the extra trub.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I don’t use any high protein adjuncts with any hazy beer and have no issues with “haze stability” or creating it for that matter.

The oil content and polyphenol load that these hops deliver has a serious effect on mouthfeel. Galaxy, Nelson, Vic Secret, and Enigma specifically. You don’t need nearly as many other “tools” to create body. Personally I’d try just 2 row and some Carafoam or 2 row and 2% of some low lovi crystalin yiur next beer with these hops. Think you’d be surprised at A: how much faster it’s ready and B: how hazy it is and stays.

I just ordered my grains for my next batch:

96.5% 2-row
3.5% c-10

I have a ton of hops on hand but am thinking of using an even 3 way split between Vic Secret, Nelson, and Enigma.

I’m also going to bag my hops in the boil and whirlpool, and yes, in the dry hop too. I know the utilization will go down but I used to bag hops all the time and can’t say I ever really noticed a drastic difference. I’ll also be crashing before the dry hop, then transferring into a purged keg with the bagged dry hops, dry hopping cool for about 2/3 days, and then crashing again in the keg before jumping to a serving keg. The focus is on getting a soft, non astringent ready to drink beer as soon as possible. We’ll see how it goes.

 

[nebulabrewing]

I’m also going to bag my hops in the boil and whirlpool, and yes, in the dry hop too. I know the utilization will go down but I used to bag hops all the time and can’t say I ever really noticed a drastic difference.

I do this with beers heavy on the hops, and I've never seen an issue. I've done beers throwing hops in loosely and beers bagged to compare, and I can say I could not tell a difference. The biggest difference was that the beers with the hop bags for DH had no issues dispensing in the keg whatsoever.

I always had issues in the keg with beers that I loosely threw the hops into the fermenter. No matter how much cold crashing I did, or how careful I was to leave them in the kettle/fermenter, I still managed to occasionally get that lingering piece of hop particle in the keg and it was a nightmare to deal with.

 

[wepeeler]

I do this with beers heavy on the hops, and I've never seen an issue. I've done beers throwing hops in loosely and beers bagged to compare, and I can say I could not tell a difference. The biggest difference was that the beers with the hop bags for DH had no issues dispensing in the keg whatsoever.

I always had issues in the keg with beers that I loosely threw the hops into the fermenter. No matter how much cold crashing I did, or how careful I was to leave them in the kettle/fermenter, I still managed to occasionally get that lingering piece of hop particle in the keg and it was a nightmare to deal with.

Agreed. I've been doing this for the past few batches, where I'm doing 5+ oz in the whirlpool. I use an oversized muslin bag, and tie it off right at the top. It's basically a monster teabag, and I just move it around occasionally during the whirlpool. I leave it in until chilling is done, wring it out once I've chilled to pitching temp and then remove it. Much less mess into the fermenter, and ultimately, the keg.

 

[Dgallo]

Idk how you guys don’t notice a difference. Bag a 6 oz dryhop and then do a loose 6 oz dryhop. Keep everything else the same. Dryhop for 3 days.

This exact experiment that I did 3 times in a row just to see if there weren’t any flukes, made me stop bagging my hops All together. Not only is there this but there is ample scientific studies that show surface area and extraction are directly correlated.

 

[wepeeler]

Idk how you guys don’t notice a difference. Bag a 6 oz dryhop and then do a loose 6 oz dryhop. Keep everything else the same. Dryhop for 3 days.

This exact experiment that I did 3 times in a row just to see if there weren’t any flukes, made me stop bagging my hops All together. Not only is there this but there is ample scientific studies that show surface area and extraction are directly correlated.

Dry hopping is different. Lower temps and no agitation. I only bag hops during the whirlpool. More volume, higher temps and agitation helps release the oils.

 

[Dgallo]

Dry hopping is different. Lower temps and no agitation. I only bag hops during the whirlpool. More volume, higher temps and agitation helps release the oils.

Unless I’m reading this wrong, you’re the only one who specifically mentions whirlpooling only. If ppl are bagging hops no wonder I see recipes with 16+ oz of hops

 

[HopsAreGood]

Idk how you guys don’t notice a difference. Bag a 6 oz dryhop and then do a loose 6 oz dryhop. Keep everything else the same. Dryhop for 3 days.

This exact experiment that I did 3 times in a row just to see if there weren’t any flukes, made me stop bagging my hops All together. Not only is there this but there is ample scientific studies that show surface area and extraction are directly correlated.

I agree with you, and there really is no way to argue against what you’re saying. In the past when I used to bag my dry hops, I was using pretty heavy amounts in the range of 10 to 15 ounces. I suppose whatever I lost in terms of utilization was made up for with the excessive amount of hops I was using. I have dry hopped tons of beers without bagging them and can tell a difference in terms of utilization. That being said, when bagging them I do notice much less astringency, the beer seems a lot less rough around the edges, and the overall hop character is much smoother. I am OK sacrificing a few ounces of hops in terms of utilization, in order to avoid the initial phase of hop fire.

Obviously the argument could be made to just use fewer hops and not have to bag them, in order to avoid the excessive hop burn. It’s all a work in progress and I’m simply searching to find the best method.

 

[wepeeler]

Unless I’m reading this wrong, you’re the only one who specifically mentions whirlpooling only. If ppl are bagging hops no wonder I see recipes with 16+ oz of hops

I could be. Everything in the boil gets tossed in loosely. I only bag my whirlpool hops, but I'm constantly agitating them. I throw all dry hops in loosely as well. There is no reason to use a pound of hops for 5 gallons IMO.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Im no expert on the matter, but everything Ive read suggested having hops go commando offers the best way to maximize extraction so thats one technique Ive stuck with. However, I would like to figure out with my processes on how to minimize trub into the fermenter (Im using an anvil foundry). On beers with heavy adjuncts especially the oat cream IPAs, I get a ton of trub (0.5-0.7gallon) in the fermenter even if I let it settle in the kettle prior to transferring. Im not afraid of off-flavors due to the trub (I actually think kviek yeast likes trub lol) but Id like to minimize my fermenter losses by reducing trub rather than bagging the dry hops. My buddy is always pulling me in the direction of using a hop bag/spider for whirlpool to save on losses, but my thought is always the same - the hop spider reduces hop debris into the fermenter but not the other trub, so I just go commando on the hot side as well.

 

[Dgallo]

Im no expert on the matter, but everything Ive read suggested having hops go commando offers the best way to maximize extraction so thats one technique Ive stuck with. However, I would like to figure out with my processes on how to minimize trub into the fermenter (Im using an anvil foundry). On beers with heavy adjuncts especially the oat cream IPAs, I get a ton of trub (0.5-0.7gallon) in the fermenter even if I let it settle in the kettle prior to transferring. Im not afraid of off-flavors due to the trub (I actually think kviek yeast likes trub lol) but Id like to minimize my fermenter losses by reducing trub rather than bagging the dry hops. My buddy is always pulling me in the direction of using a hop bag/spider for whirlpool to save on losses, but my thought is always the same - the hop spider reduces hop debris into the fermenter but not the trub, so I just go commando on the hot side as well.

I’ve noticed that most under estimate the amount of trub and hop debris. Most folks keep their loses their kettle loses the same. I expect to leave a minimum or .75 gallons in my kettle. I usually knock out with 6.5-6.75 gallons to ensure I get a clean 5.75-6 gallons in the fv. This is the easiest way to handle trub and is usually a cost of 2 more lbs of bade grain

 

[HopsAreGood]

This beer was kegged on Monday. This had 2 ounces of Idaho 7 at 10, 6 ounces of Idaho 7 in a 165 whirlpool, and then a single DryHop of 3 ounces of Sabro Lupomax, 2.5 ounces of Citra Lupomax, and 2.5 ounces of mosaic Lupomax. The LupoMax equates out to about 11.5 ounces of regular pellets. I used a hop spider in the whirlpool and boil, and then did not bag the dry hops at all. It’s still a bit young but it’s extremely aromatic and tasting great. Just a little bit hot from the hop load. It also needs a little bit of time to come together so the flavors can mature.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I’ve noticed that most under estimate the amount of trub and hop debris. Most folks keep their loses their kettle loses the same. I expect to leave a minimum or .75 gallons in my kettle. I usually knock out with 6.5-6.75 gallons to ensure I get a clean 5.75-6 gallons in the fv. This is the easiest way to handle trub and is usually a cost of 2 more lbs of bade grain

Thanks. Yeah Im already leaving about 0.75g in my kettle and getting 5.75 in the fermenter, but may need to consider simply leaving 1.0g behind in kettle if it helps to minimize trub/hops into the fermenter. At least for these hoppy type beers anyways

 

[couchsending]

Only time I ever bag hops is in a keg. Always commando WP and DH. Even 12oz of DH in 6 gallons.
6-7.5oz of DH is impactful. It’s not the same impact as 10-12. Is 10-12oz twice as much? No! Is it more impactful, yes. Without a doubt, all day long. Provided you have the gear and technique down there is a difference. Is it worth it? Up to you....

Brewing the first beer that I’m going to attempt to reuse dry hops from. Goal is to dry hop this beer, crash and keg, then transfer a beer that has been soft crashed onto the dry hops from the first beer. Making sure the line is complete purged is my biggest worry. Interested to see how it turns out.

5% Pale ale that will end up getting close to 14oz of hops over hot and cold side. Second beer will probably be 4-4.5% that gets transferred onto the original dry hops.

 

[Rainy]

This beer was kegged on Monday. This had 2 ounces of Idaho 7 at 10, 6 ounces of Idaho 7 in a 165 whirlpool, and then a single DryHop of 3 ounces of Sabro Lupomax, 2.5 ounces of Citra Lupomax, and 2.5 ounces of mosaic Lupomax. The LupoMax equates out to about 11.5 ounces of regular pellets. I used a hop spider in the whirlpool and boil, and then did not bag the dry hops at all. It’s still a bit young but it’s extremely aromatic and tasting great. Just a little bit hot from the hop load. It also needs a little bit of time to come together so the flavors can mature.

That beer looks great!

Any early comments on the use of the lupomax hops?
I guess apart from a guarantee that the hops are of a better quality (what ever that might mean) and that you have a bit less vegetal matter I wouldn't expect a big difference.
Lupomax might be more of a game changer for us Europeans for whom it's a bit harder to get high quality american varieties, than for all you US folks.
Although BBC hops also already went for the "better quality" selling point.

 

[Oophaga]

So just a quick observation on different yeast strains. I normally use S04, I have used 1318 and although I enjoyed it, didn't think it was enough of a difference to warrant the time and energy to build starters. I usually have a clearish beer with S04 until I dry hop. I whirlpool around 3-4 oz of hops, with a large dry hop charge of 7-9 oz.(normally at the tail end of fermentation but this thread has me avoiding that this time). This is in a fermenter with 6-6.5 gallons to account for yeast cake and hop absorption. Most recipes I use have a decent amount of either wheat or oats, or both. This current recipe I just did was influenced heavily by the oat cream thread.

Pilsner: 55%
Oat Malt:27.5%
Flaked Oats: 11%
GNO: 4.1%
Acid Malt for PH.

The next large change was switching from straight S04 to blending it with S33. I did 6 grams s04 6 grams s33. The wort went in clear. After fermentation it is possibly the haziest beer I have brewed and I haven't even dry hopped it yet. I will report back after dry hop. Going to soft crash it tomorrow, and dry hop Sunday and spund at 3-5 psi. (first time dry hopping under pressure as well if anyone has better settings to try out let me know!) Definitely looking forward to exploring what S33 contributes.

 

[skleice]

I recently brewed a batch with S-33 after the fermentis info and general curiosity on the forums. It was a heavy Strata & Ekuanot beer which resulted in a dominant yeasty aroma and flavor. Hops were very muted and it eventually dropped super clear. I have no plans to use s-33 again.

 

[aaronm13]

Put my new Yakima order in the other day and ordered 8oz of each of the 3 Lupomax varieties. Really looking forward to trying them. Hopefully all going well with shipping and customs I should have them by the end of next week. First up will be Dgallo's TIPA.

 

[midegrou]

Anybody ever try giving the NEIPA treatment to the Lawson's Double Sunshine clone recipe from back in (I think) 2014? I *swear* DS seemed like a super aromatic and juicy NEIPA the first time I ever had it (probably also in 2014), but it seems far more west coast now if I find cans of it. Perhaps it's just been intense palate shift.

I'm thinking I could make it exactly as described (it even recommends a soft crash and dry hopping at 55F) but with LAIII and doubling or tripling the DH as the only changes.

 

[stickyfinger]

yeah, i've come to the conclusion that the extra few ounces per batch to get me to 2oz/gal dry hop are totally worth it for me.

Only time I ever bag hops is in a keg. Always commando WP and DH. Even 12oz of DH in 6 gallons.
6-7.5oz of DH is impactful. It’s not the same impact as 10-12. Is 10-12oz twice as much? No! Is it more impactful, yes. Without a doubt, all day long. Provided you have the gear and technique down there is a difference. Is it worth it? Up to you....

Brewing the first beer that I’m going to attempt to reuse dry hops from. Goal is to dry hop this beer, crash and keg, then transfer a beer that has been soft crashed onto the dry hops from the first beer. Making sure the line is complete purged is my biggest worry. Interested to see how it turns out.

5% Pale ale that will end up getting close to 14oz of hops over hot and cold side. Second beer will probably be 4-4.5% that gets transferred onto the original dry hops.

 

[ttuato]

Im no expert on the matter, but everything Ive read suggested having hops go commando offers the best way to maximize extraction so thats one technique Ive stuck with. However, I would like to figure out with my processes on how to minimize trub into the fermenter (Im using an anvil foundry). On beers with heavy adjuncts especially the oat cream IPAs, I get a ton of trub (0.5-0.7gallon) in the fermenter even if I let it settle in the kettle prior to transferring. Im not afraid of off-flavors due to the trub (I actually think kviek yeast likes trub lol) but Id like to minimize my fermenter losses by reducing trub rather than bagging the dry hops. My buddy is always pulling me in the direction of using a hop bag/spider for whirlpool to save on losses, but my thought is always the same - the hop spider reduces hop debris into the fermenter but not the other trub, so I just go commando on the hot side as well.

@Noob_Brewer

get two stainless steel scrubbies that look like below. ($3) at grocery store. Make sure it is the kind that looks coiled. Stick fingers through center of one, stretch it open and insert the second one inside. Stick finger in the center scrubby to open enough so you can slip it over your diptube. As you recirculate the scrubby will get caked with protein, hops, etc which will then cause it to act like a "wort filter subsequently keeping all of the trub out and sending "clear" wort to FV.

NOTES: it will drastically slow down the transfer to fermentor, two scrubbies are better than one but one works too. Whirlfloc increases the effectivenes of this method.

 

[couchsending]

This one was hopped exclusively with the new Australian hop HPA-016. (Other than a small bittering charge of something clean)

A very interesting hop that I don’t really know how to describe honestly. Has that “rough” edge like all the Aussie hops. Lots of fruity or citrusy character but I have no idea how to describe it. Nothing like Galaxy. Bit of pine like Vic Secret. Descriptors say orange but I don’t get much of that. That being said the bag was punctured by the time I got it. Due to its long travel I think the hops might have been a bit compromised. Got a refund on the original bag so I grabbed another. Definitely using it again.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I've been thinking about adjusting my grain bill specifically for these intense hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7). Scott Janish suggests that dialing back protein levels (flaked oats, wheat) could reduce green and aggressive flavors from polyphenols and myrcene. I typically use 3 lb of flaked oats in my recipe, which could be why my beers take weeks longer to condition if using just 2 oz of one of those hops in the dry hop. Anyone put this theory into practice?

I would consider switching from flaked to malted and keeping the ratio.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Dying to get my hands on Strata, absolutely love it.
But none available in the UK at all.

I found them inside EU on twojbrowar.pl
Good luck.

 

[secretlevel]

@Noob_Brewer

get two stainless steel scrubbies that look like below. ($3) at grocery store. Make sure it is the kind that looks coiled. Stick fingers through center of one, stretch it open and insert the second one inside. Stick finger in the center scrubby to open enough so you can slip it over your diptube. As you recirculate the scrubby will get caked with protein, hops, etc which will then cause it to act like a "wort filter subsequently keeping all of the trub out and sending "clear" wort to FV.

NOTES: it will drastically slow down the transfer to fermentor, two scrubbies are better than one but one works too. Whirlfloc increases the effectivenes of this method.



View attachment 691889

This is oddly genius... Every time I use them in the kitchen they smell somewhat metallic though. Does that ever translate into beer?

 

[stickyfinger]

Do you all use galaxy in the hopstand/whirlpool at all? I have used it twice now and like the results. I was wondering why Aaron from New Anthem was bad mouthing galaxy in the whirlpool. Maybe I misremembered his comments on that.

 

[stickyfinger]

Just had a Treehouse Haze for the first time in many months. It used to be one of my favorite beers from them. This one tastes very different hopwise. It has a lot of floral geraniol-like character. I dont really like it much. Anyone notice a change in TH beers in the last yr or so?

 

[Rothbard69]

@Noob_Brewer

get two stainless steel scrubbies that look like below. ($3) at grocery store. Make sure it is the kind that looks coiled. Stick fingers through center of one, stretch it open and insert the second one inside. Stick finger in the center scrubby to open enough so you can slip it over your diptube. As you recirculate the scrubby will get caked with protein, hops, etc which will then cause it to act like a "wort filter subsequently keeping all of the trub out and sending "clear" wort to FV.

NOTES: it will drastically slow down the transfer to fermentor, two scrubbies are better than one but one works too. Whirlfloc increases the effectivenes of this method.

I really need help with this very thing. Every brew I've done in my Unibrau system has clogged the hopplate filter when I try to send to plate chiller. Makes for a messy frustrating situation. I have always thrown in hops but there such a butt ton of them that it's inevitable the hopplate will clog. I hate to use a spider because when I did that before it completely clogged too so I knew minimal hop oils were getting out. So I've decided to get a central spider with a big floppy bag and see if that will allow utilization to occur at a high percentage and at the same time prevent the clog when I decide to send to chiller. Any ideas??

 

[Rothbard69]

I really need help with this very thing. Every brew I've done in my Unibrau system has clogged the hopplate filter when I try to send to plate chiller. Makes for a messy frustrating situation. I have always thrown in hops but there such a butt ton of them that it's inevitable the hopplate will clog. I hate to use a spider because when I did that before it completely clogged too so I knew minimal hop oils were getting out. So I've decided to get a central spider with a big floppy bag and see if that will allow utilization to occur at a high percentage and at the same time prevent the clog when I decide to send to chiller. Any ideas??

 

[couchsending]

Nectaron!


A very cool new hop. Supposedly it’s a half sister to Waimea and I think there are some similarities. It’s potent that’s for sure! And not in a bad way. Very distinct but clean. No diesel/machine oil notes at all and I don’t think it’s high in polyphenols as it never had the roughness to it even young. Been in the keg for 6 weeks now and aroma/flavor has not faded at all.

 

[secretlevel]

Nectaron!


A very cool new hop. Supposedly it’s a half sister to Waimea and I think there are some similarities. It’s potent that’s for sure! And not in a bad way. Very distinct but clean. No diesel/machine oil notes at all and I don’t think it’s high in polyphenols as it never had the roughness to it even young. Been in the keg for 6 weeks now and aroma/flavor has not faded at all.

View attachment 692137

I love Waimea, l'll definitely have to give this one a shot. So many NZ hops are on the lower side of oil content but Waimea is up there so it's been fun for me to mix it in with Citra and other "banger" hops.

 

[Dgallo]

Nectaron!


A very cool new hop. Supposedly it’s a half sister to Waimea and I think there are some similarities. It’s potent that’s for sure! And not in a bad way. Very distinct but clean. No diesel/machine oil notes at all and I don’t think it’s high in polyphenols as it never had the roughness to it even young. Been in the keg for 6 weeks now and aroma/flavor has not faded at all.

View attachment 692137

Love that hop. Looks like the beer cleared up some

 

[couchsending]

Love that hop. Looks like the beer cleared up some

It was that clear to begin with. I have to look but this one I think was just 2row, Vienna, dextrose and some low L crystal. It was a bit more WC in design with more bittering and higher Ca content as well.

I think this was beer 5 with Nectaron. First three used it in blends with other NZ hops. First one that was predominantly 4337 was also a bit more clear. However that was with a new yeast I‘d never used (Imperial Julis) and it ended up with some diacetyl when it went from keg to cans.
This one I did dry hop near terminal to try to encourage some hop creep as it didn’t seem like it was going to finish where I wanted it to. I used Amarillo and centennial for that relatively small charge as they’re usually the worst offenders when it comes to enzymes. It worked and beer dropped 1.5 plato before all said and done.

I’m not 100% sure cause I haven’t seen any published data but I think Nectaron could be lower in polyphenol content. If I had dry hopped this beer with the same amount of Nelson or Motueka it wouldn’t be this clear.

 

[couchsending]

I love Waimea, l'll definitely have to give this one a shot. So many NZ hops are on the lower side of oil content but Waimea is up there so it's been fun for me to mix it in with Citra and other "banger" hops.

Yeah the oil content thing is interesting. I always was confused by that when looking at Nelson with total oil content being only around 1. However I think there’s more and more data coming out saying that total oil content is only a small piece of the puzzle when it comes to flavor and aroma. Nelson is packed with thiols which could have a much larger impact on the hop‘s potency in beer.

 

[beervoid]

It was that clear to begin with. I have to look but this one I think was just 2row, Vienna, dextrose and some low L crystal. It was a bit more WC in design with more bittering and higher Ca content as well.

I think this was beer 5 with Nectaron. First three used it in blends with other NZ hops. First one that was predominantly 4337 was also a bit more clear. However that was with a new yeast I‘d never used (Imperial Julis) and it ended up with some diacetyl when it went from keg to cans.
This one I did dry hop near terminal to try to encourage some hop creep as it didn’t seem like it was going to finish where I wanted it to. I used Amarillo and centennial for that relatively small charge as they’re usually the worst offenders when it comes to enzymes. It worked and beer dropped 1.5 plato before all said and done.

I’m not 100% sure cause I haven’t seen any published data but I think Nectaron could be lower in polyphenol content. If I had dry hopped this beer with the same amount of Nelson or Motueka it wouldn’t be this clear.

What was your total dry hop charge and which yeast did you use?

 

[couchsending]

What was your total dry hop charge and which yeast did you use?

I had to go look at my notes. I brewed this at the end of May and have brewed a ton of beers since so things were a bit foggy.

Grain Bill was just: Rahr 2row, 8% Munich, 2% Honey, 2% Acidulated. (No dextrose or Vienna)

90 minute boil
Nugget @ 60
Mosaic/4337 @ 10
Mosaic, Simcoe, 4337 WP
98 “theoretical” IBUs

“Hop creep
3oz Am/Cent blend
1.5oz 4437

Final DH after soft crashing to 55 was 6oz 4337.
Left at 55 for two days then slowly cool to 39 and remove hops

1.066/1.0125

I use Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay most of the time. Of all the commercial variants of this yeast I find this one to flocculate the best and the easiest to work with. I’ve messed around with the Bell’s yeast strain and lately Old Newark Ale from East Coast Yeast which is supposedly the Ballantine’s strain.

However I’m probably going back to just using Vermont Ale for everything. I’ve used just about every strain under the sun and for me it tends to produces the beers I want to make. I ferment it on the colder side as I’m not looking for tons of yeast esters. I think it does convert certain hop compounds to fruitier flavors/aromas. I’ve done a few side by sides lately with ECY10 and the hop profile is always just generically “fruitier” even fermented cold with VT Ale. I don’t like the overly soft/sweet LAIII profile at all. I really don’t like it when people ferment it warm either. The esters trample the hops. Personally I’m more interested in letting the hops themselves really shine through. in my personal experience VT Ale does that the best of all the English yeasts I’ve used without creating any “distracting” flavors or aromas. Plus you can ferment it at 56 and make a bangin Kolsch.