New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[MMP126]

How are you guys dealing with kettle trub for NEIPAs?

Last weekend I brewed my first attempt at a “real” NEIPA. This was also my 2nd brew on my new system using a 20 gal SS brewtech kettle (including the SS brewtech trub dam). After chilling I whirlpooled like crazy, let it settle for 25 min, but still had quite a lot of trub making its way into the fermenters… I guess this was due primarily to the high amount of hops used (approx. 1 oz/gal total hot-side hops). The first brew on this kettle was a more moderately hopped beer and I did not have such problems. Should I be concerned about this or should I not worry? I know there are different schools of thought regarding kettle trub. In my older system I believe I had always been quite successful at keeping most of the trub out of the fermenter, also for IPAs…That is why this is bothering me now a bit… a new system should be an improvement, not a regression . Thanks!

...by the way amazing thread, I learned a ton from you guys!!

I do the same as you, but I add a few steps.

1. I have a pump, so after I whirlpool, while getting down to ferm temperature, I pump the return into a SS hop spider I have. This collects A LOT, but not all of the hop particles. And it does clog, so I have to finagle it a bit to allow the wort to filter through.
2. When I transfer the wort to the fermenter, I run it through one of those funnels that has a strainer at the bottom of it.

Works well for me I think!

 

[couchsending]

How are you guys dealing with kettle trub for NEIPAs?

Last weekend I brewed my first attempt at a “real” NEIPA. This was also my 2nd brew on my new system using a 20 gal SS brewtech kettle (including the SS brewtech trub dam). After chilling I whirlpooled like crazy, let it settle for 25 min, but still had quite a lot of trub making its way into the fermenters… I guess this was due primarily to the high amount of hops used (approx. 1 oz/gal total hot-side hops). The first brew on this kettle was a more moderately hopped beer and I did not have such problems. Should I be concerned about this or should I not worry? I know there are different schools of thought regarding kettle trub. In my older system I believe I had always been quite successful at keeping most of the trub out of the fermenter, also for IPAs…That is why this is bothering me now a bit… a new system should be an improvement, not a regression . Thanks!

...by the way amazing thread, I learned a ton from you guys!!

I try and keep as much out as possible.

I’ll often wait an hour or so after the fermenter is full and at pitching temps then dump what’s settled before pitching yeast.

Excess trub can have a pretty negative effect on head retention.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

What’s causing it to get into your fermenter, is your port below your trub line?

The port is the Ss brewtech dip tube with their custum trub dam. Basically it is a device that should theoretically allow one to pick up even the last liters of wort provided
a) a whirlpool is done and
b) the whirlpool is effective and the trub piles up nicely in a cone in the middle of the kettle.

In this instance I guess that there was so much hop material that the cone was just too broad and it covered the full bottom of the kettle...including the spot where the dip tube is located beyond the trub dam.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

I’ll often wait an hour or so after the fermenter is full and at pitching temps then dump what’s settled before pitching yeast.

That is of course a great way to solve the issue but unfortunately not doable for me at the moment, since I haven't upgraded to conicals yet... nor will that happen in a near future.

 

[beervoid]

That is of course a great way to solve the issue but unfortunately not doable for me at the moment, since I haven't upgraded to conicals yet... nor will that happen in a near future.

I wouldnt worry too much, I had a few brews where more trub then wanter went in the fermenter and never noticed a huge difference.

 

[Dgallo]

That is of course a great way to solve the issue but unfortunately not doable for me at the moment, since I haven't upgraded to conicals yet... nor will that happen in a near future.

Do you have an extra kettle or vessel that can hold your KO volume. If so you can rack first to that and follow that process and then after it’s all settled again, transfer to your fv.

The port is the Ss brewtech dip tube with their custum trub dam. Basically it is a device that should theoretically allow one to pick up even the last liters of wort provided
a) a whirlpool is done and
b) the whirlpool is effective and the trub piles up nicely in a cone in the middle of the kettle.

In this instance I guess that there was so much hop material that the cone was just too broad and it covered the full bottom of the kettle...including the spot where the dip tube is located beyond the trub dam.

can your dip tube to the port be angled up a bit so it’s above the trub. If so then you can just adjust your recipe and volume to account for the loss

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Do you have an extra kettle or vessel that can hold your KO volume. If so you can rack first to that and follow that process and then after it’s all settled again, transfer to your fv.

unfortunately not... if I'm putting another 20 Gal vessel like that in my basement I'll get trouble

can your dip tube to the port be angled up a bit so it’s above the trub. If so then you can just adjust your recipe and volume to account for the loss

This is a great and simple idea I did not think about! Yes I think I could do that. You can place that dip tube basically in any position you want, if it holds that position during the boil... It is of course made to be turned downwards because of the trub dam and all, but why not?
I think I'll definitely try this on my next hugely hoppy brew. Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

My AU hops and LUPOMAX came in. Highly recommend buying their hops in two ounce packs. It only cost a $1.95 more to get 8 - 2oz packs than a 1lb bag. That’s worth not having to use my time and vacuum bags and really helps the freshness

 

[Noob_Brewer]

My AU hops and LUPOMAX came in. Highly recommend buy their hops in to ounce packs. It only cost a $1.95 more to get 8 - 2oz packs than a 1lb bag. That’s worth not having to use my time and vacuum bags and really helps the freshness View attachment 691150

Just looked at YVH website, looked at 2oz packs and it read "out of stock, @Dgallo bought them all"

 

[Dgallo]

Just looked at YVH website, looked at 2oz packs and it read "out of stock, @Dgallo bought them all"

 

[Frieds]

Finally got that colour I want

 

[Jesse Runowski]

My AU hops and LUPOMAX came in. Highly recommend buying their hops in two ounce packs. It only cost a $1.95 more to get 8 - 2oz packs than a 1lb bag. That’s worth not having to use my time and vacuum bags and really helps the freshness View attachment 691150

Nice Haul!

Picked up a pound of Vic secret & Mosaic LUPOMAX myself.

Never used either of these before, if anyone has any suggestions let me know. Looking to use both in my next NEIPA.

Love this thread and all of the informative posts. Thank you guys!

 

[HopsAreGood]

Nice Haul!

Picked up a pound of Vic secret & Mosaic LUPOMAX myself.

Never used either of these before, if anyone has any suggestions let me know. Looking to use both in my next NEIPA.

Love this thread and all of the informative posts. Thank you guys!

I love Vic secret but just be aware that it has very high polyphenol content. This is just something I’ve heard from other very knowledgeable people, and have also Found it to be true myself. It’s similar in a way to galaxy in that it can be quite amazing, but you have to be kind of gentle with it.

 

[nebulabrewing]

Deviated away from my usual New England recipe. Very happy with the results so far!

 

[tld6008]

Deviated away from my usual New England recipe. Very happy with the results so far!View attachment 691346

.....and?

 

[stickyfinger]

My AU hops and LUPOMAX came in. Highly recommend buying their hops in two ounce packs. It only cost a $1.95 more to get 8 - 2oz packs than a 1lb bag. That’s worth not having to use my time and vacuum bags and really helps the freshness View attachment 691150

wow, that's true. it's not much difference in price. crazy!

 

[stickyfinger]

Thinking of doing a split batch comparing crashing and dry hopping at crash temp vs crashing and warming up to 70F for dryhop. I like Juice, so I will use that. What is the temp to use for a colder dry hop with Juice to still get amazing flavors from the hops but avoid any yeast activity? I was thinking 50F like Aaron from New Anthem has been using or maybe 60F for a warmer variation that is hopefully cold enough.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

I love Vic secret but just be aware that it has very high polyphenol content. This is just something I’ve heard from other very knowledgeable people, and have also Found it to be true myself. It’s similar in a way to galaxy in that it can be quite amazing, but you have to be kind of gentle with it.

Good to know, Thanks! I'll definitely keep that in mind, especially when pairing it with other hops.

 

[midegrou]

I love Vic secret but just be aware that it has very high polyphenol content. This is just something I’ve heard from other very knowledgeable people, and have also Found it to be true myself. It’s similar in a way to galaxy in that it can be quite amazing, but you have to be kind of gentle with it.

Dumb question, but does "gentle" simply mean to not use "extreme" amounts? In my last brew, I used 3oz per gallon in the dry hop, which I've read is probably past the point of diminishing returns (but damn was it tasty). Should I consider cutting that in half? Would 2oz/gallon still be too much?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Dumb question, but does "gentle" simply mean to not use "extreme" amounts? In my last brew, I used 3oz per gallon in the dry hop, which I've read is probably past the point of diminishing returns (but damn was it tasty). Should I consider cutting that in half? Would 2oz/gallon still be too much?

Heavy polyphenol amounts can lead to astringency, harshness, and perceived bitterness in the beer. (Not ibu bitterness) In order to reduce the amount of polyphenols, or at least attempt to, you can try using a little bit less than you normally would, try dry hopping at cooler temperatures, consider shorter contact times, and really crash your beer hard and cold to drop out as much as possible. All of these will help but your mileage may vary. Time will always help but the above will get you to a more ready to drink beer faster.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Thinking of doing a split batch comparing crashing and dry hopping at crash temp vs crashing and warming up to 70F for dryhop. I like Juice, so I will use that. What is the temp to use for a colder dry hop with Juice to still get amazing flavors from the hops but avoid any yeast activity? I was thinking 50F like Aaron from New Anthem has been using or maybe 60F for a warmer variation that is hopefully cold enough.

I just kegged a beer about an hour ago that was dry hopped at 53 degrees for about 48 hours. It was crashed down to 42 prior to the dry hop at 53, then dropped back down to 42 after 48 hours at 53. The first sample was very promising. I listened to the new anthem podcast where he says they dry hop at 50 and the vitamin sea one where he says they dry hop at 55. So I split the difference more or less.

 

[couchsending]

Not sure if many people saw this but that NZ experimental HORT4337 has been named Nectaron. Kind of a dumb name but whatever. NZ Hops is pumping it that’s for sure. It doesn’t have the depth and complexity of Nelson but it’s not too far behind. To me it’s more Australian than NZ but without the weird “roughness” you can get from Aussie hops. That ginger/licorice sort of abrasive as to the flavor. The 4337 (and 9909) have had zero of that diesel or machine oil note. And seem to be lower in polyphenols than say Nelson, Riwaka, or Motueka.

BeerCo in AUS just got the 2020 lot in. I have zero affiliation with these guys but can’t say enough about the level of service and the quality of hops I’ve received from them. They even put the lot #s on the packaging which is cool if you know what to look for. My last shipment literally took 6 days to get from AUS to UT. I can send people 10% off codes if you want to DM me.

 

[anteater8]

Heavy polyphenol amounts can lead to astringency, harshness, and perceived bitterness in the beer. (Not ibu bitterness) In order to reduce the amount of polyphenols, or at least attempt to, you can try using a little bit less than you normally would, try dry hopping at cooler temperatures, consider shorter contact times, and really crash your beer hard and cold to drop out as much as possible. All of these will help but your mileage may vary. Time will always help but the above will get you to a more ready to drink beer faster.

I've been thinking about adjusting my grain bill specifically for these intense hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7). Scott Janish suggests that dialing back protein levels (flaked oats, wheat) could reduce green and aggressive flavors from polyphenols and myrcene. I typically use 3 lb of flaked oats in my recipe, which could be why my beers take weeks longer to condition if using just 2 oz of one of those hops in the dry hop. Anyone put this theory into practice?

 

[couchsending]

I've been thinking about adjusting my grain bill specifically for these intense hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7). Scott Janish suggests that dialing back protein levels (flaked oats, wheat) could reduce green and aggressive flavors from polyphenols and myrcene. I typically use 3 lb of flaked oats in my recipe, which could be why my beers take weeks longer to condition if using just 2 oz of one of those hops in the dry hop. Anyone put this theory into practice?

I don’t use any high protein adjuncts with any hazy beer and have no issues with “haze stability” or creating it for that matter.

The oil content and polyphenol load that these hops deliver has a serious effect on mouthfeel. Galaxy, Nelson, Vic Secret, and Enigma specifically. You don’t need nearly as many other “tools” to create body. Personally I’d try just 2 row and some Carafoam or 2 row and 2% of some low lovi crystalin yiur next beer with these hops. Think you’d be surprised at A: how much faster it’s ready and B: how hazy it is and stays.

 

[wepeeler]

I'll be using Strata for the first time in a NEIPA this weekend. My plan is to highlight Strata, but pair it with some hops that I know better for good measure. My first thought is Citra, Mosaic, Strata... but I'm curious if anyone has had more experience with Strata and has recommendations.

14 lb 2 row
3 lb flaked oats
0.75 lb wheat
0.25 lb honey malt

0.5 oz Warrior (19 IBU)
2 oz Mosaic whirlpool
2 oz Strata whirlpool
2 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Mosaic dry hop
4 oz Strata dry hop

I just made a Citra Mosaic Strata, and it came out fantastic. I used a touch of both Citra and Mosaic in the boil, but I treated Strata like Galaxy and prefer it after flameout and for dry hopping only. It's harsh. I used a 2:1:.25 ratio, and Strata still shines through. (I made an all Strata neipa first to see what it offers, and it was great but changed a lot over time. Started as straight pineapple juice, then got more earthy over the course of about 6 weeks. I prefer it as a complimentary hop vs a solo.)

How are you guys dealing with kettle trub for NEIPAs?

Last weekend I brewed my first attempt at a “real” NEIPA. This was also my 2nd brew on my new system using a 20 gal SS brewtech kettle (including the SS brewtech trub dam). After chilling I whirlpooled like crazy, let it settle for 25 min, but still had quite a lot of trub making its way into the fermenters… I guess this was due primarily to the high amount of hops used (approx. 1 oz/gal total hot-side hops). The first brew on this kettle was a more moderately hopped beer and I did not have such problems. Should I be concerned about this or should I not worry? I know there are different schools of thought regarding kettle trub. In my older system I believe I had always been quite successful at keeping most of the trub out of the fermenter, also for IPAs…That is why this is bothering me now a bit… a new system should be an improvement, not a regression . Thanks!

...by the way amazing thread, I learned a ton from you guys!!

I used to try to keep most of the trub out of the fermenter, but now I dump nearly everything into my fermenter, sans the last quarter gallon or so. I also muslin bag my whirlpool hops so none of that vegetal matter makes it into the fermenter. Never experienced off flavors or head retention issues from the extra trub.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I don’t use any high protein adjuncts with any hazy beer and have no issues with “haze stability” or creating it for that matter.

The oil content and polyphenol load that these hops deliver has a serious effect on mouthfeel. Galaxy, Nelson, Vic Secret, and Enigma specifically. You don’t need nearly as many other “tools” to create body. Personally I’d try just 2 row and some Carafoam or 2 row and 2% of some low lovi crystalin yiur next beer with these hops. Think you’d be surprised at A: how much faster it’s ready and B: how hazy it is and stays.

I just ordered my grains for my next batch:

96.5% 2-row
3.5% c-10

I have a ton of hops on hand but am thinking of using an even 3 way split between Vic Secret, Nelson, and Enigma.

I’m also going to bag my hops in the boil and whirlpool, and yes, in the dry hop too. I know the utilization will go down but I used to bag hops all the time and can’t say I ever really noticed a drastic difference. I’ll also be crashing before the dry hop, then transferring into a purged keg with the bagged dry hops, dry hopping cool for about 2/3 days, and then crashing again in the keg before jumping to a serving keg. The focus is on getting a soft, non astringent ready to drink beer as soon as possible. We’ll see how it goes.

 

[nebulabrewing]

I’m also going to bag my hops in the boil and whirlpool, and yes, in the dry hop too. I know the utilization will go down but I used to bag hops all the time and can’t say I ever really noticed a drastic difference.

I do this with beers heavy on the hops, and I've never seen an issue. I've done beers throwing hops in loosely and beers bagged to compare, and I can say I could not tell a difference. The biggest difference was that the beers with the hop bags for DH had no issues dispensing in the keg whatsoever.

I always had issues in the keg with beers that I loosely threw the hops into the fermenter. No matter how much cold crashing I did, or how careful I was to leave them in the kettle/fermenter, I still managed to occasionally get that lingering piece of hop particle in the keg and it was a nightmare to deal with.

 

[wepeeler]

I do this with beers heavy on the hops, and I've never seen an issue. I've done beers throwing hops in loosely and beers bagged to compare, and I can say I could not tell a difference. The biggest difference was that the beers with the hop bags for DH had no issues dispensing in the keg whatsoever.

I always had issues in the keg with beers that I loosely threw the hops into the fermenter. No matter how much cold crashing I did, or how careful I was to leave them in the kettle/fermenter, I still managed to occasionally get that lingering piece of hop particle in the keg and it was a nightmare to deal with.

Agreed. I've been doing this for the past few batches, where I'm doing 5+ oz in the whirlpool. I use an oversized muslin bag, and tie it off right at the top. It's basically a monster teabag, and I just move it around occasionally during the whirlpool. I leave it in until chilling is done, wring it out once I've chilled to pitching temp and then remove it. Much less mess into the fermenter, and ultimately, the keg.

 

[Dgallo]

Idk how you guys don’t notice a difference. Bag a 6 oz dryhop and then do a loose 6 oz dryhop. Keep everything else the same. Dryhop for 3 days.

This exact experiment that I did 3 times in a row just to see if there weren’t any flukes, made me stop bagging my hops All together. Not only is there this but there is ample scientific studies that show surface area and extraction are directly correlated.

 

[wepeeler]

Idk how you guys don’t notice a difference. Bag a 6 oz dryhop and then do a loose 6 oz dryhop. Keep everything else the same. Dryhop for 3 days.

This exact experiment that I did 3 times in a row just to see if there weren’t any flukes, made me stop bagging my hops All together. Not only is there this but there is ample scientific studies that show surface area and extraction are directly correlated.

Dry hopping is different. Lower temps and no agitation. I only bag hops during the whirlpool. More volume, higher temps and agitation helps release the oils.