New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[MaCheFai]

Juice is Imperial’s London III so it’s really a preference of what yeast profile you like. I personally love A24 -dryhop. The blend really just helps hit and enhance the overall hop character of the beer. Calling it dryhop is perfectly fitting

Have a batch 1/2 way through fermentation now w/ A24. So far, the smell out of the fermentor isn't as peachy/mango sweet as 1318. It seems more like candied orange. I know that means very little at this point, but just found it interesting as a comparison.

 

[Hannabrew]

Juice is Imperial’s London III so it’s really a preference of what yeast profile you like. I personally love A24 -dryhop. The blend really just helps hit and enhance the overall hop character of the beer. Calling it dryhop is perfectly fitting

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

I harvested the yeast cake into 3 mason jars and have subsequently pitched 2 of those directly into new batches, one a pale ale that's carbing up currently and one I literally just pitched this morning. I'm not going to push it any further than that but I figure getting 3-4 batches out of it is good enough.

 

[BeerFst]

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

overbuilt my first starter and just saved 400ml or so without decanting. i plan to pitch that whole thing into a new starter for my next brew, overbuild again and repeat. It took a while but after 4+ weeks on the top shelf of the fridge it seems to have dropped very clear, so the A20 portion will eventually make it down.

Interestingly i just finished a starter of A15, and saved an overbuilt portion (this one was decanted) but its very reluctant to drop clear.

 

[MaCheFai]

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

I'm using a hop canister for the first time for dry hopping. Can just wash and repitch.

 

[Dgallo]

Have a batch 1/2 way through fermentation now w/ A24. So far, the smell out of the fermentor isn't as peachy/mango sweet as 1318. It seems more like candied orange. I know that means very little at this point, but just found it interesting as a comparison.

They are both different strains so they should be different. As always preference is an individual thing. That being said what temps are you running A24?

 

[MaCheFai]

They are both different strains so they should be different. As always preference is an individual thing. That being said what temps are you running A24?

Yeah, for sure! Was just reporting on my impressions between the 2 so far since they're going into the same style beer.

So I pitched at 70, let it slowly drop to 68 where I held it for 2 days. I then DH'd and raised it to 72, where it's been for 4 days. The Tilt's looking like it may be done. So I was going to drop it back down to 68 and let it ride for a few days before I soft crash and DH again.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah, for sure! Was just reporting on my impressions between the 2 so far since they're going into the same style beer.

So I pitched at 70, let it slowly drop to 68 where I held it for 2 days. I then DH'd and raised it to 72, where it's been for 4 days. The Tilt's looking like it may be done. So I was going to drop it back down to 68 and let it ride for a few days before I soft crash and DH again.

Gotcha. I usually run it warmer than that around day 3.5-5.5 and push it to 75/76 to stress the yeast a little further but you should still be fine with it.

If your tilt is showing you’re done than I’d keep at 70-72 for about 3 days so the yeast clean it up properly.

Keep us posted with your experience!

 

[ttuato]

I have an experiment to share with you all. There have been several experiments about oats vs wheat in neipa - usually flaked variety, But I have yet to stumble across malted oats vs wheat malt. I decided to do my own. I brewed two seperate small batch neipas:

80% TF Golden Promise
18% Crisp Malted Oats or Weyerman White Wheat Malt
2% Honey Malt
(Normally I decrease oats and use chit but I did not want to skew the foam/body comparison)

1oz gal WP of Citra
1oz gal dryhop of Citra on Day 3

Since these were small batches I could not do my usual cold side LODO but I figured it would be okay since each would have roughly the equivalent exposure to oxygen. After 24hrs dryhop (still some SG left), I transferred each to a uKeg to spund w/ a CO2 cylinder for backup. In day 14, no discernible difference, day 21 - oat had better mouthfeel & foam (shaving cream vs big bubbles for wheat) and malted oats slightly darker.

Here is day 28 - the difference in oxidation characteristics is shocking. Malted oats is much darker, the hops aroma has taken a huge hit BUT the mouthfeel & foam are significantly more "desirable". Malted wheat batch has okay foam that lingers for a minute and thin body, but the hop aroma & flavors are popping like crazy vs stale/oxidized for the malted oats brew.

I was originally planning to take pics every two weeks up till 8, but I feel like this is enough data for me to stop the experiment.

I have still have some malted oats to work through, but I will not be using in the future. I plan to switch to flaked barley for the body/head component after that and test again vs wheat malt.

Tangent - Another thing I am trying to quantify is the impact of polyphenols in hops on mouthfeel. The brew I made a while back that was solo dryhop of 1.5oz per gal of galaxy (known for high polyphenols) had the best mouthfeel of any beer I have ever made. It had malted oats but it was a split batch and the other had el dorado, citra, mosaic dryhop - the mouthfeel/body wasnt even close to the galaxy batch.

Cheers!

 

[couchsending]

Just remember that English malts are already much lower in protein than say standard American 2 row. A high protein base malt and some carafoam and you don’t need any adjuncts. If you hit the correct mash temps you’ll have a nice creamy body with haze and hop/flavor that will last longer.

 

[stickyfinger]

oat malt can give a nice oatey flavor if ground fine. i like wheat malt more but 100% pale malt works great with low oxygen and awesome hops. A24 and 1318 are both bomb. need to compare them soon.

 

[stickyfinger]

OK, I've been doing different trials recently - carboy vs keg, spund vs tank CO2, but I think this is my favorite. I went back to fermenting in a corny with CBDS. I chilled to 35F for a few days after primary was over and then warmed back up to 68F and dry hopped with a spund valve, anticipating the usual hop creep I always get. I got the usual hop creep but let it rest a week to work, clean up and spund at 30 psi. I just tonight moved to the keezer and took as sample. Holy balls, it has incredible hop flavor! It is starting to approach that super rich, resinous character that Alchemist beers have! i really need to do some side by side comparisons, but i think this is the best approach for me at least. now, i do always invert my kegs before serving for IPAs, so this process works for me if i get any premature settling of hop character due to some suspended yeast during dry hop.

Does anyone else go through primary, cold crash, warm back up to dry hop, spund and then cool to serve? i think Dgallo was talking about this at some point? Honestly, it seems really hard to argue with spunding for getting the best hop character. Like I said, i need to do some side by sides though. I'm open to suggestions for some experiments to try to nail this down more...

Also, on this beer I used Imperial A24 (dryhop) after several months away from it so maybe the yeast had some impact on the awesomeness too...

 

[MaCheFai]

OK, I've been doing different trials recently - carboy vs keg, spund vs tank CO2, but I think this is my favorite. I went back to fermenting in a corny with CBDS. I chilled to 35F for a few days after primary was over and then warmed back up to 68F and dry hopped with a spund valve, anticipating the usual hop creep I always get. I got the usual hop creep but let it rest a week to work, clean up and spund at 30 psi. I just tonight moved to the keezer and took as sample. Holy balls, it has incredible hop flavor! It is starting to approach that super rich, resinous character that Alchemist beers have! i really need to do some side by side comparisons, but i think this is the best approach for me at least. now, i do always invert my kegs before serving for IPAs, so this process works for me if i get any premature settling of hop character due to some suspended yeast during dry hop.

Does anyone else go through primary, cold crash, warm back up to dry hop, spund and then cool to serve? i think Dgallo was talking about this at some point? Honestly, it seems really hard to argue with spunding for getting the best hop character. Like I said, i need to do some side by sides though. I'm open to suggestions for some experiments to try to nail this down more...

Also, on this beer I used Imperial A24 (dryhop) after several months away from it so maybe the yeast had some impact on the awesomeness too...

After sharing one of my homebrews with the head brewer at Ocelot(super great guy), he swore by pressurized fermentation. He said he doesn't want any of that hoppy goodness to escape. So I used to use a spunding on cornys (15psi) along with a cold crash. Not anymore though due to the 4'ish gal size constraints(due to req'd head space). I never inverted the keg though. Had thought about it, since the first few pours pull out all of the settled yeast and hops, which can sometimes be the most flavorful part. However, since that was the reason I cold crashed to begin with, I just never tried it. Anyway, I suppose one could just simply add another step. Transfer from fermentor to serving per usual with some keg hops, keep room temp, then drop to serving temps and fully carb as norm.

I'm planning on doing a similar thing on my current batch. Will be soft crashing in the fermentor, raising temps to 68, adding 2nd DH, then transferring to serving.

 

[SRJHops]

I have an experiment to share with you all. There have been several experiments about oats vs wheat in neipa - usually flaked variety, But I have yet to stumble across malted oats vs wheat malt. I decided to do my own. I brewed two seperate small batch neipas:

80% TF Golden Promise
18% Crisp Malted Oats or Weyerman White Wheat Malt
2% Honey Malt
(Normally I decrease oats and use chit but I did not want to skew the foam/body comparison)

1oz gal WP of Citra
1oz gal dryhop of Citra on Day 3

Since these were small batches I could not do my usual cold side LODO but I figured it would be okay since each would have roughly the equivalent exposure to oxygen. After 24hrs dryhop (still some SG left), I transferred each to a uKeg to spund w/ a CO2 cylinder for backup. In day 14, no discernible difference, day 21 - oat had better mouthfeel & foam (shaving cream vs big bubbles for wheat) and malted oats slightly darker.

Here is day 28 - the difference in oxidation characteristics is shocking. Malted oats is much darker, the hops aroma has taken a huge hit BUT the mouthfeel & foam are significantly more "desirable". Malted wheat batch has okay foam that lingers for a minute and thin body, but the hop aroma & flavors are popping like crazy vs stale/oxidized for the malted oats brew.
View attachment 646560

I was originally planning to take pics every two weeks up till 8, but I feel like this is enough data for me to stop the experiment.

I have still have some malted oats to work through, but I will not be using in the future. I plan to switch to flaked barley for the body/head component after that and test again vs wheat malt.

Tangent - Another thing I am trying to quantify is the impact of polyphenols in hops on mouthfeel. The brew I made a while back that was solo dryhop of 1.5oz per gal of galaxy (known for high polyphenols) had the best mouthfeel of any beer I have ever made. It had malted oats but it was a split batch and the other had el dorado, citra, mosaic dryhop - the mouthfeel/body wasnt even close to the galaxy batch.

Cheers!

Thanks for sharing the experiment! I have been using BOTH malted oats and malted wheat in equal amounts (plus some flaked barley and carafoam; base is 2-row). I was thinking of maybe switching to just malted oats or wheat, but your experiment makes me think maybe I should stick with both, in search of the best of both. I have not had any oxidation issues, so maybe the combo is the way to go...?

That all Galaxy dryhop would scare me! It was tasty? When I used just a few ounces of Galaxy in the DH it turned into a phenolic mess that was barely drinkable, though it could have been the timing -- I won't be using it for the bio trans addition ever again...

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Just throwing in a pic of a nice, clean, clear Helles to remind everyone there is more to beer than NEIPA.

And then my NEIPA next to the real deal Julius just so you know I'm not an NEIPA hater (but I only make 2 a year vs the 10 or so classic German lagers I make).
Guess which is real and which is mine...

 

[Dgallo]

Just throwing in a pic of a nice, clean, clear Helles to remind everyone there is more to beer than NEIPA.
View attachment 646660

And then my NEIPA next to the real deal Julius just so you know I'm not an NEIPA hater (but I only make 2 a year vs the 10 or so classic German lagers I make).
Guess which is real and which is mine...

View attachment 646661

I’m going with right.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I’m going with right.

For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).

 

[Dgallo]

For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).

I was saying right since the head is tighter and better developed. I personally believe treehouse always has weak head formation.

 

[JohnConnor]

For the record, mine is the one on the right.
I think the glass shape makes the real deal look a little darker (I'm guessing you assumed oxidation). In person they were indistinguishable (in appearance - flavor was close but different hops blend - mine more tropical than orange-y (by design)).

Do you mind sharing your recipe? I guess I'm more curious your hops... what you used vs what you think TH uses?

 

[couchsending]

I was saying right since the head is tighter and better developed. I personally believe treehouse always has weak head formation.

I would completely disagree and say few come close.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Do you mind sharing your recipe? I guess I'm more curious your hops... what you used vs what you think TH uses?

I change up the hops every time, but I like a more tropical blend. THat one was Azacca, Citra, Galaxy. Next time I went with Azacca, Bravo, Citra - that one was pure pineapple juice.

Treehouse claims theirs is an all-american blend. I don't care to try to imitate their hops blend though, because if I want exactly Julius, I'll buy it. My goal is to take what I like about Julius (my favorite commercial NEIPA), and tweak it to my taste. I feel an NEIPA should still have a decent malt backbone and beer flavor vs. the notion that the malt should get out of the way and let it all be about the hops. And I think Julius has that in spades, which is why I based mine off of it vs. say, something by Trillium. I don't like Trillium NEIPAs because there's nothing to them besides the hops (plus I feel like they all seem to be overly acidic and tart).

My two cents.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I was saying right since the head is tighter and better developed. I personally believe treehouse always has weak head formation.

Nah - mine had just dissipated some from the time I brought it up from my nasement keezer and then poured the Julius from the can and took the pic. Probably 1.5 minutes from pour vs just poured.

 

[BeerFst]

Just remember that English malts are already much lower in protein than say standard American 2 row. A high protein base malt and some carafoam and you don’t need any adjuncts. If you hit the correct mash temps you’ll have a nice creamy body with haze and hop/flavor that will last longer.

Lighting isnt great, but this is a Blonde Ale with A24. 3 gallon batch, 2oz Citra mostly in whirlpool. 80% 2 row, 10% C15, 10% carapils

I did add 28oz Goya frozen Guava and 14oz frozen Goya Passionfruit, are these high in pectin? anyway crazy hazy, so i am inclined to agree with you

 

[JohnConnor]

I change up the hops every time, but I like a more tropical blend. THat one was Azacca, Citra, Galaxy. Next time I went with Azacca, Bravo, Citra - that one was pure pineapple juice.

Treehouse claims theirs is an all-american blend. I don't care to try to imitate their hops blend though, because if I want exactly Julius, I'll buy it. My goal is to take what I like about Julius (my favorite commercial NEIPA), and tweak it to my taste. I feel an NEIPA should still have a decent malt backbone and beer flavor vs. the notion that the malt should get out of the way and let it all be about the hops. And I think Julius has that in spades, which is why I based mine off of it vs. say, something by Trillium. I don't like Trillium NEIPAs because there's nothing to them besides the hops (plus I feel like they all seem to be overly acidic and tart).

My two cents.

Totally agree. I just like see what other people are doing. What malts are you using?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

8 lb US 2-Row
3 lb German Vienna
A pound of flaked wheat
A pound of flaked oats
A pound of Honey
4 Oz honey malt

 

[Blazinlow86]

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

I decant it after cold crashing and overbuild my starter to save for the next time. I really like this yeast but have never tried it without decanting. Cheers

 

[ttuato]

My only issue with A24 is how to make it last for more than one pitch. I hate pitching full starters and from what I remember it is not recommended to decant this strain due to the blend. How are you guys making the $12 pitch earn it's money?

A24 is a 50/50 blend of A4 & A20. Buy each separate, Over build starters and blend yourself at yeast pitch. Little more work but you can keep it going several generations this way and cut costs.

 

[ttuato]

Thanks for sharing the experiment! I have been using BOTH malted oats and malted wheat in equal amounts (plus some flaked barley and carafoam; base is 2-row). I was thinking of maybe switching to just malted oats or wheat, but your experiment makes me think maybe I should stick with both, in search of the best of both. I have not had any oxidation issues, so maybe the combo is the way to go...?

That all Galaxy dryhop would scare me! It was tasty? When I used just a few ounces of Galaxy in the DH it turned into a phenolic mess that was barely drinkable, though it could have been the timing -- I won't be using it for the bio trans addition ever again...

I saw a video somewhere of the galaxy hop growers, they said to use for dryhop only and not for the biotransformation version of dryhop.

In my experience, phenolic is a yeast/sanitation issue and picking up a wild yeast.

The all galaxy dryhop w/ Kveiking is top 5 beer I have ever made. Whirlpool was Citra/Bravo/Simcoe - equal parts, blend used at 1oz/gal.

 

[SRJHops]

I saw a video somewhere of the galaxy hop growers, they said to use for dryhop only and not for the biotransformation version of dryhop.

In my experience, phenolic is a yeast/sanitation issue and picking up a wild yeast.

The all galaxy dryhop w/ Kveiking is top 5 beer I have ever made. Whirlpool was Citra/Bravo/Simcoe - equal parts, blend used at 1oz/gal.

I'd be curious to learn why they said not to use Galaxy for the bio trans addition. But I think I can guess. In my experience, it seems too potent and the spicey/bitter/astringent phenols really stay suspended, though I didn't try to crash them out for that brew. Nowadays I have been soft crashing on Day 10 or so, then doing two more DH additions in the final 4 days. So, maybe I shouldn't be as afraid of Galaxy for a late DH.

(I have not had any bad or seriously off flavor phenol problems, but I do think my beers can be a bit spicey, which I attribute to the phenols from high AA hops like Galaxy.)

However, I think I am going to take Dgallo's and other folks advice and skip the bio trans addition altogether next time. Not that I think it doesn't add some citrus flavor... but I think it also adds some hop bite/spice, and I want to see if I can smooth out my beer a bit...

 

[JohnConnor]

8 lb US 2-Row
3 lb German Vienna
A pound of flaked wheat
A pound of flaked oats
A pound of Honey
4 Oz honey malt

Awesome. I've used vienna in my last couple IPA's and really enjoyed it. Actually producing my best recipes to date. Thanks!