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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Northern_Brewer

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Does anyone know of a retailer with Riwaka inside EU?
Much of the antipodean hops come into Europe via the UK, for obvious historical reasons, but looking around at British retailers there's not much sign of the 2020 crop yet when normally you'd expect them to have them. So I suspect things have just got a bit held up by Covid restrictions - in general it's meant to have been a good harvest, and the lockdown has reduced demand, so supplies are meant to be good this year.
 

Dgallo

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Much of the antipodean hops come into Europe via the UK, for obvious historical reasons, but looking around at British retailers there's not much sign of the 2020 crop yet when normally you'd expect them to have them. So I suspect things have just got a bit held up by Covid restrictions - in general it's meant to have been a good harvest, and the lockdown has reduced demand, so supplies are meant to be good this year.
I can’t speak on Uk but us demand has gone up greatly. My LHBS has been up On average 60 % Since April, which is great because these guys really do alot for our area with sponsoring youth sports and donating to the wildlife preserve. I think We May have discussed previously but it’s still that way in the US NE. MY brother in law is a salesmen for Gasko Myer bev distributors and has been up 30% or better of his last year sales.

I feel like the bumper crop didn’t translate to more hops for the hbers, I feel like more commercial breweries finallygot contracts filled
 

couchsending

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Hey dudes! Dropping in to see if I can get some ideas on how to make my NEIPAs better. This seems to be the place.

I brewed my last beer, photo below:

View attachment 700526

It tunrned out ok. My friends liked it, but there are some flaws I want to see if yall can help with.

Here is the recipe:
Grain NameOriginal Amount (lb)
Pilsen Malt, Best MALZ15
Golden Promise, Fawcett3.5
White Wheat Malt, Briess2
Flaked Oats1.5
Honey Malt, Gambrinus0.625

Hop NameOriginal Amount (oz)Addition Time
Galena0.460
Idaho 71.510
Idaho Gem0.510
Idaho 71.5Flameout
Idaho Gem0.5Flameout
Idaho 73Whirlpool
Idaho Gem1.5Whirlpool
Idaho 72Dry Hop
Idaho Gem5.5Dry Hop

Total IBUs: 36

Yeast was WY1318 (London Ale III). Fermented at 67F for 10 days. Then soft crash to 58F for 2 days. Dry hop at 58F for 2 days. Then cold crash to 38F for 2 days. Then kegged.

I close transfer everything, and do the CO2 push into the keg filled with sani. No issues there.

My problems:

1. Lacking flavor. This is my biggest pet peeve! All of my NEIPAs have been just lacking in the juicy flavor department. Aroma has been absolutely fantastic, but the flavor isnt like the juciness I get from the great NEIPAs I get commercially. Not sure what my issue has been. I have used all the popular hops, Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Idaho 7, Idaho Gem, Amarillo, Motueka, Simcoe, etc. Still same outcome. Any advice here to get the juiciness?

2. Hop burn on this one. Still there after about a month in the keg. The DH I used on this one was pretty large, so I may dial that back down to like 5 or 6oz/gal. Any thoughts here? Maybe a long cold crash? Is 7.5oz too much?

3. Big bitterness. I think this may be the root of why I am not getting the juicy flavor to pop through. There is always a really firm bitterness. I may ditch the 60min hop addition. Maybe my WP temp is too high? Too long? I usually do 30min, starting at 165F. Let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance guys!
Explain your water and ph measurements.

You shouldn’t be getting too much bitterness out of those additions. Maybe ditch the flameout and just move those amounts to the WP, otherwise those are fine.

The average commercial hazy IPA is dry hopped at 4#/bbl. That would be 10-12oz for 5-6 gallons, just for reference. Also you aren’t getting the quality of hops that your favorite commercial breweries are getting, sorry but there’s a big difference. Idaho Gem wouldn’t be my first choice for a huge DH. How did your’s smell? Stuff I’ve used had the cool cherry/red fruit character but the earth/dirt/charcoal aroma was crazy. Never experienced that intense of an earthy note in any hop.

It’s weird I never experience hop burn in any of my beers. 10oz of Aussie hops in a recent one and nada. I don’t use wheat or oats generally though. Soft crashing and dry hopping cold usually helps as well as a bit of cold conditioning but not much. High levels of Cl can make it worse in my opinion.
 

beervoid

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depends on how fast you drink it. you're gonna wanna get ALL the trub, yeast, and hops out of there. if you can, you're good. otherwise its not ideal, but still pretty good.

there are new, better PET all in ones coming out with true 60 degree cones for better dumping.
From kegland?
 

Andre3000

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Got my Riwaka today. Finally have all the my hops for my favorite ipa I brew! Hopefully the wife lets me brew this weekend! View attachment 700514
Can you point me to a post of yours with the recipe? I did a single hop with 2019 Riwaka and it was underwhelming. Maybe I can put the remainder to use with your recipe where hopefully the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
 

R.A.I.D

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My problems:

1. Lacking flavor. This is my biggest pet peeve! All of my NEIPAs have been just lacking in the juicy flavor department. Aroma has been absolutely fantastic, but the flavor isnt like the juciness I get from the great NEIPAs I get commercially. Not sure what my issue has been. I have used all the popular hops, Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Idaho 7, Idaho Gem, Amarillo, Motueka, Simcoe, etc. Still same outcome. Any advice here to get the juiciness?

2. Hop burn on this one. Still there after about a month in the keg. The DH I used on this one was pretty large, so I may dial that back down to like 5 or 6oz/gal. Any thoughts here? Maybe a long cold crash? Is 7.5oz too much?

3. Big bitterness. I think this may be the root of why I am not getting the juicy flavor to pop through. There is always a really firm bitterness. I may ditch the 60min hop addition. Maybe my WP temp is too high? Too long? I usually do 30min, starting at 165F. Let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance guys!
All that has already been said. Plus:

1 & 2)
Try rack to a new purged container with dry hops after dropping the yeast. Dry hop with loose pellets. Shake the whole thing once in a while. Still at 14C. After 12-24 hours start a solid cold crash at 0C or - 1C for 2-3 days.
That should maximize your hop oil utilization and the cold crash should minimize the risk of hop burn.
Be sure not to get any yeast or hops transfered when you rack. I recommend a dip tube of reduced length. It is better than any filter around the dip tube.

3)
I prefere only 5-8 IBU from 60 min hops. No 10 min or flame out hops. Move it all to WP at 80C or lower. That gives me a perceived bitterness similar to a belgian tripel. I also recommend about 10g hops in the mash.
 

beervoid

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Hey dudes! Dropping in to see if I can get some ideas on how to make my NEIPAs better. This seems to be the place.

I brewed my last beer, photo below:

View attachment 700526

It tunrned out ok. My friends liked it, but there are some flaws I want to see if yall can help with.

Here is the recipe:
Grain NameOriginal Amount (lb)
Pilsen Malt, Best MALZ15
Golden Promise, Fawcett3.5
White Wheat Malt, Briess2
Flaked Oats1.5
Honey Malt, Gambrinus0.625

Hop NameOriginal Amount (oz)Addition Time
Galena0.460
Idaho 71.510
Idaho Gem0.510
Idaho 71.5Flameout
Idaho Gem0.5Flameout
Idaho 73Whirlpool
Idaho Gem1.5Whirlpool
Idaho 72Dry Hop
Idaho Gem5.5Dry Hop

Total IBUs: 36

Yeast was WY1318 (London Ale III). Fermented at 67F for 10 days. Then soft crash to 58F for 2 days. Dry hop at 58F for 2 days. Then cold crash to 38F for 2 days. Then kegged.

I close transfer everything, and do the CO2 push into the keg filled with sani. No issues there.

My problems:

1. Lacking flavor. This is my biggest pet peeve! All of my NEIPAs have been just lacking in the juicy flavor department. Aroma has been absolutely fantastic, but the flavor isnt like the juciness I get from the great NEIPAs I get commercially. Not sure what my issue has been. I have used all the popular hops, Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Idaho 7, Idaho Gem, Amarillo, Motueka, Simcoe, etc. Still same outcome. Any advice here to get the juiciness?

2. Hop burn on this one. Still there after about a month in the keg. The DH I used on this one was pretty large, so I may dial that back down to like 5 or 6oz/gal. Any thoughts here? Maybe a long cold crash? Is 7.5oz too much?

3. Big bitterness. I think this may be the root of why I am not getting the juicy flavor to pop through. There is always a really firm bitterness. I may ditch the 60min hop addition. Maybe my WP temp is too high? Too long? I usually do 30min, starting at 165F. Let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance guys!
Remove all bittering additions, start with a light wp. Problem elimination.
I also suggest changing the yeast. 1318 can be a hard floccer in some circumstances
 

MrPowers

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All that has already been said. Plus:

1 & 2)
Try rack to a new purged container with dry hops after dropping the yeast. Dry hop with loose pellets. Shake the whole thing once in a while. Still at 14C. After 12-24 hours start a solid cold crash at 0C or - 1C for 2-3 days.
That should maximize your hop oil utilization and the cold crash should minimize the risk of hop burn.
I would not recommend this to 99.9% of brewers. Racking/transferring these NEIPA’s is like trying to diffuse a bomb. Unless you do everything perfectly, you blow it up (ie. unless you’ve spent a lot of time, money and practice on O2 avoidance). It’s best to just dry hop in primary after a soft crash without any shaking.
 

MMP126

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You guys are absolutely fantastic! I am going to just write one reply to answer everyone…

@Dgallo

Yeah, I had a total of 7.5oz in the DH total, so for 5.5gal. This isn’t very big, so having the resulting lingering burn is an issue.

My cold side practices are pretty solid. The only time I let O2 in is when I DH. And it is very quick. I do the Sani filled keg, and push it out with CO2. Purge all lines before I transfer. I think I am pretty solid there.

Both 8oz bags of hops I had were 2019. Both un-opened, and stayed sealed before I used them. So, as fresh as I could get I would think?

@MrPowers

My OG was 1.078, FG was 1.017. Attenuation was 78%. This has been typical for me with 1318. Single infusion mash at 156 for 60min. 60min boil. Water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

Fermentation kicked off well. Pitched at like 11PM. Bubbling away at 8AM.

@anteater8

I think I am good on the cold side closed transfer stuff/oxidation. My beer color is pretty consistent for the duration of the keg. I have mad MANY oxidized NEIPAs, and this isn’t what my beer is reflecting. So, I don’t think it’s that.

I let this beer go for 4 weeks, and there is still a burn. Which is surprising to me. I would think that it would subside by now. But it hasn’t. The wheat and oats discussion has got me thinking. I may adjust those in my beers in the future.

I think I am going to get rid of my 60min in future beers. Potentially move it to 30min.

@couchsending

My water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

I didn’t take any other pH measurements. Do you suggest taking any others?

Yeah, my DH amount doesn’t seem to be crazy to me either! 7oz isn’t too much. I have done 6oz with less burn.

I have realized that the hops us homebrewers get aren’t the best. And there is even some inconsistency in what we do get. I have had some weird smelling bags. These hops smelled great when I opened them. Work with what you have I guess.

This beer smells like Simply Orange from a bottle. Huge orange on the nose. I get the cherry too, but that may be my mind playing tricks on me, since I didn’t notice it before. I don’t get any charcoal or dirt. Maybe a little earthy. There is some peach, some pineapple. It smells absolutely fantastic. Just the flavor is lacking.

You are the 2nd to mention oats and wheat. Maybe I’ll back these out in my next beers. I did have high Cl2 in the beer. Maybe back that down too.

@R.A.I.D

I am not sure I like the idea of another transfer. Seems like a pathway to oxidation? I really do try to not get any hop or yeast matter going into the keg. I am sure there is some, but I do pay attention to get some “clear” beer coming out of the transfer line.

I think I am going to ditch my 60min. Seems to be a common thing that people recommend on here.

@beervoid

I may try another yeast. Not sure which one. And yeah, I think I am going to remove the 60min addition.



Again you guys are awesome. I cannot thank you all enough for the amazing info that is placed on here. I am try to get better, and contribute also!

I have a good idea of where I want to head in the future, thanks to yall! I’ll be back with updates on how it goes!

Thanks again!
 

beervoid

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You guys are absolutely fantastic! I am going to just write one reply to answer everyone…

@Dgallo

Yeah, I had a total of 7.5oz in the DH total, so for 5.5gal. This isn’t very big, so having the resulting lingering burn is an issue.

My cold side practices are pretty solid. The only time I let O2 in is when I DH. And it is very quick. I do the Sani filled keg, and push it out with CO2. Purge all lines before I transfer. I think I am pretty solid there.

Both 8oz bags of hops I had were 2019. Both un-opened, and stayed sealed before I used them. So, as fresh as I could get I would think?

@MrPowers

My OG was 1.078, FG was 1.017. Attenuation was 78%. This has been typical for me with 1318. Single infusion mash at 156 for 60min. 60min boil. Water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

Fermentation kicked off well. Pitched at like 11PM. Bubbling away at 8AM.

@anteater8

I think I am good on the cold side closed transfer stuff/oxidation. My beer color is pretty consistent for the duration of the keg. I have mad MANY oxidized NEIPAs, and this isn’t what my beer is reflecting. So, I don’t think it’s that.

I let this beer go for 4 weeks, and there is still a burn. Which is surprising to me. I would think that it would subside by now. But it hasn’t. The wheat and oats discussion has got me thinking. I may adjust those in my beers in the future.

I think I am going to get rid of my 60min in future beers. Potentially move it to 30min.

@couchsending

My water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

I didn’t take any other pH measurements. Do you suggest taking any others?

Yeah, my DH amount doesn’t seem to be crazy to me either! 7oz isn’t too much. I have done 6oz with less burn.

I have realized that the hops us homebrewers get aren’t the best. And there is even some inconsistency in what we do get. I have had some weird smelling bags. These hops smelled great when I opened them. Work with what you have I guess.

This beer smells like Simply Orange from a bottle. Huge orange on the nose. I get the cherry too, but that may be my mind playing tricks on me, since I didn’t notice it before. I don’t get any charcoal or dirt. Maybe a little earthy. There is some peach, some pineapple. It smells absolutely fantastic. Just the flavor is lacking.

You are the 2nd to mention oats and wheat. Maybe I’ll back these out in my next beers. I did have high Cl2 in the beer. Maybe back that down too.

@R.A.I.D

I am not sure I like the idea of another transfer. Seems like a pathway to oxidation? I really do try to not get any hop or yeast matter going into the keg. I am sure there is some, but I do pay attention to get some “clear” beer coming out of the transfer line.

I think I am going to ditch my 60min. Seems to be a common thing that people recommend on here.

@beervoid

I may try another yeast. Not sure which one. And yeah, I think I am going to remove the 60min addition.



Again you guys are awesome. I cannot thank you all enough for the amazing info that is placed on here. I am try to get better, and contribute also!

I have a good idea of where I want to head in the future, thanks to yall! I’ll be back with updates on how it goes!

Thanks again!
I can recommend vermont its been less burny for me. Or simply s04
Also doublecheck ur pitch rates so you are not overpitching.
 

R.A.I.D

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I am not sure I like the idea of another transfer. Seems like a pathway to oxidation?
It is my solution to avoid introducing oxygen when "adding" DH. The DH is in the dry hop keg and it is purged by the pure co2 from the fermentation. But yes, you have to know what you are doing.
 

brewval

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Took a gravity reading on my latest hazy last night!

Golden Promise
Flaked Oats
White Wheat
Acid malt (just a dash)

Fwh with Motueka, two different whirlpool additions with Columbus, Galaxy, and Sabro. The sample was delicious. First time using Sabro. I’m excited to see what it’s like carbed up!

Went from 1.078 to 1.020 with a second-gen starter of 1318. Hoping it gets to 1.016.

I usually dryhop 48hrs in, but haven’t yet. Will probably do it in a few days
D49E8906-8A93-493D-9A5D-44F56933EB54.jpeg
 

ryanm8

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Hey dudes! Dropping in to see if I can get some ideas on how to make my NEIPAs better. This seems to be the place.

I brewed my last beer, photo below:

View attachment 700526

It tunrned out ok. My friends liked it, but there are some flaws I want to see if yall can help with.

Here is the recipe:
Grain NameOriginal Amount (lb)
Pilsen Malt, Best MALZ15
Golden Promise, Fawcett3.5
White Wheat Malt, Briess2
Flaked Oats1.5
Honey Malt, Gambrinus0.625

Hop NameOriginal Amount (oz)Addition Time
Galena0.460
Idaho 71.510
Idaho Gem0.510
Idaho 71.5Flameout
Idaho Gem0.5Flameout
Idaho 73Whirlpool
Idaho Gem1.5Whirlpool
Idaho 72Dry Hop
Idaho Gem5.5Dry Hop

Total IBUs: 36

Yeast was WY1318 (London Ale III). Fermented at 67F for 10 days. Then soft crash to 58F for 2 days. Dry hop at 58F for 2 days. Then cold crash to 38F for 2 days. Then kegged.

I close transfer everything, and do the CO2 push into the keg filled with sani. No issues there.

My problems:

1. Lacking flavor. This is my biggest pet peeve! All of my NEIPAs have been just lacking in the juicy flavor department. Aroma has been absolutely fantastic, but the flavor isnt like the juciness I get from the great NEIPAs I get commercially. Not sure what my issue has been. I have used all the popular hops, Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Idaho 7, Idaho Gem, Amarillo, Motueka, Simcoe, etc. Still same outcome. Any advice here to get the juiciness?

2. Hop burn on this one. Still there after about a month in the keg. The DH I used on this one was pretty large, so I may dial that back down to like 5 or 6oz/gal. Any thoughts here? Maybe a long cold crash? Is 7.5oz too much?

3. Big bitterness. I think this may be the root of why I am not getting the juicy flavor to pop through. There is always a really firm bitterness. I may ditch the 60min hop addition. Maybe my WP temp is too high? Too long? I usually do 30min, starting at 165F. Let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance guys!
I would try dry hopping for 3 days at 70F. In my experience, you won't get as good of extraction at those low temps for 2 days.
 

MrPowers

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You guys are absolutely fantastic! I am going to just write one reply to answer everyone…

@Dgallo

Yeah, I had a total of 7.5oz in the DH total, so for 5.5gal. This isn’t very big, so having the resulting lingering burn is an issue.

My cold side practices are pretty solid. The only time I let O2 in is when I DH. And it is very quick. I do the Sani filled keg, and push it out with CO2. Purge all lines before I transfer. I think I am pretty solid there.

Both 8oz bags of hops I had were 2019. Both un-opened, and stayed sealed before I used them. So, as fresh as I could get I would think?

@MrPowers

My OG was 1.078, FG was 1.017. Attenuation was 78%. This has been typical for me with 1318. Single infusion mash at 156 for 60min. 60min boil. Water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

Fermentation kicked off well. Pitched at like 11PM. Bubbling away at 8AM.

@anteater8

I think I am good on the cold side closed transfer stuff/oxidation. My beer color is pretty consistent for the duration of the keg. I have mad MANY oxidized NEIPAs, and this isn’t what my beer is reflecting. So, I don’t think it’s that.

I let this beer go for 4 weeks, and there is still a burn. Which is surprising to me. I would think that it would subside by now. But it hasn’t. The wheat and oats discussion has got me thinking. I may adjust those in my beers in the future.

I think I am going to get rid of my 60min in future beers. Potentially move it to 30min.

@couchsending

My water is:

Ca: 107

Mg: 7

Na: 58

SO4: 104

Cl2: 174

Mash pH: 5.3

I didn’t take any other pH measurements. Do you suggest taking any others?

Yeah, my DH amount doesn’t seem to be crazy to me either! 7oz isn’t too much. I have done 6oz with less burn.

I have realized that the hops us homebrewers get aren’t the best. And there is even some inconsistency in what we do get. I have had some weird smelling bags. These hops smelled great when I opened them. Work with what you have I guess.

This beer smells like Simply Orange from a bottle. Huge orange on the nose. I get the cherry too, but that may be my mind playing tricks on me, since I didn’t notice it before. I don’t get any charcoal or dirt. Maybe a little earthy. There is some peach, some pineapple. It smells absolutely fantastic. Just the flavor is lacking.

You are the 2nd to mention oats and wheat. Maybe I’ll back these out in my next beers. I did have high Cl2 in the beer. Maybe back that down too.

@R.A.I.D

I am not sure I like the idea of another transfer. Seems like a pathway to oxidation? I really do try to not get any hop or yeast matter going into the keg. I am sure there is some, but I do pay attention to get some “clear” beer coming out of the transfer line.

I think I am going to ditch my 60min. Seems to be a common thing that people recommend on here.

@beervoid

I may try another yeast. Not sure which one. And yeah, I think I am going to remove the 60min addition.



Again you guys are awesome. I cannot thank you all enough for the amazing info that is placed on here. I am try to get better, and contribute also!

I have a good idea of where I want to head in the future, thanks to yall! I’ll be back with updates on how it goes!

Thanks again!
I'm still not seeing anything that would be an obvious problem.

To start eliminating variables, I would change the hop schedule up. Bitter with CTZ/Warrior/Extract/etc... @ 30 or 60. Don't add any other hops in the boil. Save all of the character hops for the whirlpool (I whirlpool @ 175F). Don't add any biotrans dry hops. Continue dry hopping in primary after the soft crash.

If you are able, I would also use a step mash (149 for 30 min + 163 for 30 min). It will help dry the beer out more (which will help the clarity of flavor) while still retaining plenty of body. If you can't step mash, I would drop the mash temp down to 149-152. Boil softly.

You could try dropping back the calcium a bit, I try to keep mine below 100ppm.

Three other questions:
1. Where are you sourcing your hops from? It's possible that you're just not getting the highest quality ingredients.
2. Where are you sourcing your CO2? Do you know the purity?
3. How are you mashing/sparging? Are you splashing/oxygenating? Are you over sparging? Is PH/temp creeping up during the sparge? Etc. It's possible you're getting grain bitterness rather than hop bitterness.
 
Last edited:

marjen

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A couple process questions.
1. When do you add lactic acid? I currently add it in the very beginning before I start heating the kettle seeing if this is right.
2. Next time to measure ph? During mash? After mash pre boil?
for those with unitanks
1. I currently am fermenting around 68 with blow off attached. With a couple points to go, I close blow off, raise temp to around 72 and let pressure build. How long should I leave it there?
2. Once done with that I drop to 58. Should I drop lower first to try and drop more yeast? Or will yeast drop at 58?
3. I am dry hopping at 58 for like 2 days then drop to about 50 for a day then crash. used about 3-4 psi last beer during this stage. When crashing, how long should I leave it crashed before dropping hops?
4. After this I will usually carb with carb stone. Then transfer.
 

MrPowers

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A couple process questions.
1. When do you add lactic acid? I currently add it in the very beginning before I start heating the kettle seeing if this is right.
2. Next time to measure ph? During mash? After mash pre boil?
for those with unitanks
1. I currently am fermenting around 68 with blow off attached. With a couple points to go, I close blow off, raise temp to around 72 and let pressure build. How long should I leave it there?
2. Once done with that I drop to 58. Should I drop lower first to try and drop more yeast? Or will yeast drop at 58?
3. I am dry hopping at 58 for like 2 days then drop to about 50 for a day then crash. used about 3-4 psi last beer during this stage. When crashing, how long should I leave it crashed before dropping hops?
4. After this I will usually carb with carb stone. Then transfer.
1. I add directly to the mash, usually after checking my PH, unless I know the recipe/ingredients well and know exactly how much I will need.
2. Measure PH during the sparge (at the end if fly sparging, to make sure it isn't drifting up too much during the sparge). I also measure pre-boil PH, measure 10 min ph (i adjust PH to 5.1 @ 10 min), and post chilling PH.


1. Leave it there as long as it takes for your yeast to finish/clean up. That might be 24 hours or it might be a few days (depending on strain and how big the beer is).
2. You could drop to 54-55F. Then when you add dry hops, just let it free rise to 58-60. It really depends on the yeast strain you're using, some will drop at 58, some need to be a little colder.
3. I usually let my dry hops sit for 3-4 days @ 58-60F, then crash for 24-48hours before dumping hops.
 

MMP126

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I'm still not seeing anything that would be an obvious problem.

To start eliminating variables, I would change the hop schedule up. Bitter with CTZ/Warrior/Extract/etc... @ 30 or 60. Don't add any other hops in the boil. Save all of the character hops for the whirlpool (I whirlpool @ 175F). Don't add any biotrans dry hops. Continue dry hopping in primary after the soft crash.

If you are able, I would also use a step mash (149 for 30 min + 163 for 30 min). It will help dry the beer out more (which will help the clarity of flavor) while still retaining plenty of body. If you can't step mash, I would drop the mash temp down to 149-152. Boil softly.

You could try dropping back the calcium a bit, I try to keep mine below 100ppm.

Three other questions:
1. Where are you sourcing your hops from? It's possible that you're just not getting the highest quality ingredients.
2. Where are you sourcing your CO2? Do you know the purity?
3. How are you mashing/sparging? Are you splashing/oxygenating? Are you over sparging? Is PH/temp creeping up during the sparge? Etc. It's possible you're getting grain bitterness rather than hop bitterness.
Thanks for the advice!

I think I may get rid of the early boil hops all together. My next batch, I am going to do 100% Citra, and add some late boil additions (30 and 10min) for around 30 IBUs. I am going to try a 165F whirlpool.

I will try a lower mash temp, see if that helps at all. And maybe a softer boil, I tend to have a pretty ripping boil.

My hops are from Yakima Valley hops, the newest crop i can get, and they are usually pretty great. There hasn't been any that I have opened, and was off put by. So, I think they are good.

My CO2 is from a local gas supply company (AirGas). So, I would assume that it is good quality. Either way, they are the only one I can source locally, so it is what it is there...

I batch sparge. I try to keep any splashing to a minimum, but I wouldnt say that I monitor it actively. I only measure pH during the mash, and my sparge water is pre-acidified to 5.5.


I had a few pints last night, and the burn/bitterness I am getting is really present in the first glass, but seems to dissipate with each additional glass. I am not sure if it is my palate acclimating to the flavor, or what. But pint 3-4 are a lot more enjoyable than pint 1-2. Maybe things in suspension are still settling, and a rid the keg of that with the first few pints, then the next few are better? But, is this still possible after 4 weeks? Seems strange. The keg is about 1/2 full now, so I would think I purged all the gunk from the keg by now?

Thanks again all! I am going to keep playing, and see what we get!
 

ihavenonickname

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Has anyone tried fermenting, dry hopping and serving one of these from the same keg? Or Why not?

Ive done it for pilsners and blondes and have been impressed by how fresh the beer tasted. I’ve had success using a floating dip with a filter or with a long dip tube filter and both served clear after conditioning. Also I’ve keg hopped for 4 weeks without grassy flavors. And I love fermenting in kegs as it is, why not put it all together and never have to transfer one of these beers?
 
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MrPowers

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Ok, this beer is finally on. After cold crashing I naturally carbed with CBC1 (dextrose/room temp for 72hours). Its been in the kegerator two days since carbing.

Aroma is awesome! Strata dominates with a little bit of dank/orange coming through from the I7 as well. The combo together kind of reminds me of Enigma but with more orange.

Solid bitterness up front, resiny/mouth-coating hop saturation with some nice toasty malt on the back end. The mouthfeel is incredibly soft.

It has a slightly tart finish (which I have never gotten in a NEIPA before) that takes some getting used to. I’m not sure if that is due to the US05 but I definitely wouldn’t call it an off flavor. It’s probably just because it’s still a bit green. I think in about a week, that tartness will just be perceived as “crisp”.

The foam is crazy. It almost looks like a nitro pour. It’s definitely the closest I’ve ever gotten to the foam on Hill Farmstead’s beers I tried at the brewery.

Color is a radiant pale orange. It’s not an opaque haze (eg. Trillium), it’s more like a Tree House/Alchemist level haze.

Overall I would call this a winner. I think I would have preferred it with S04/Conan, but I can't say for sure yet. I also think that in about another week it’s going to be out of this world!
View attachment 700303
Follow up to this:

That unusual tart finish is now gone and it’s all starting to meld. Strata/I7 is an awesome combo! Also, gotta love some good back lighting to bring out the orange color!
FDD8F0AF-EDEC-4F54-B797-C328611AE62B.jpeg
 

BongoYodeler

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Follow up to this:

That unusual tart finish is now gone and it’s all starting to meld. Strata/I7 is an awesome combo! Also, gotta love some good back lighting to bring out the orange color! View attachment 700945
I did a Citra/i7 ( non hazy ipa) last year which was really good. I over-drank it because I couldn't stop.
 

beervoid

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Has anyone tried fermenting, dry hopping and serving one of these from the same keg? Or Why not?

Ive done it for pilsners and blondes and have been impressed by how fresh the beer tasted. I’ve had success using a floating dip with a filter or with a long dip tube filter and both served clear after conditioning. Also I’ve keg hopped for 4 weeks without grassy flavors. And I love fermenting in kegs as it is, why not put it all together and never have to transfer one of these beers?
Been discussed a few times already.
Wouldnt recommend it. Higher dry hopping loads on these beers will cause off flavors.
 

BeerFst

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Been discussed a few times already.
Wouldnt recommend it. Higher dry hopping loads on these beers will cause off flavors.
Completely disagree, 6oz keg hop no problem for 4.5 gallons in a keg. That’s in addition to several oz before that. I’ve done it all in one or in a serving keg afterward.

Never had a problem
 

beervoid

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Completely disagree, 6oz keg hop no problem for 4.5 gallons in a keg. That’s in addition to several oz before that. I’ve done it all in one or in a serving keg afterward.

Never had a problem
My pallet might be more sensitive then average cause I most definately start to pick up negative flavor changes after 2 weeks or so.
I noticed much brighter flavor when crashing and transferring of the yeast and hops.
Hop choice might play a role as well.
 

Megaboil

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Citra , Nelson combo. What’s your favorite ratio? Haven’t used Nelson before.
 

Megaboil

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Hot side all Citra. Dryhop 3:1 Nelson to Citra
Ok so this is what I’m thinking.
.5 oz CTZ 60 min boil
6 oz citra whirlpool 30 min at 160
Ferment then soft crash to for 24 hours
Bring back up to 60-62
Dry hop 6 oz Nelson , 2 oz citra for 48-60 hours.
Too much citra in whirlpool?
 

Dgallo

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Ok so this is what I’m thinking.
.5 oz CTZ 60 min boil
6 oz citra whirlpool 30 min at 160
Ferment then soft crash to for 24 hours
Bring back up to 60-62
Dry hop 6 oz Nelson , 2 oz citra for 48-60 hours.
Too much citra in whirlpool?
not too much but it may swing it a litte more Citra focused. so just depends on what you like. If you’re going to use 6 oz wh I would personally go 3:1 there too. But if you want it Citra with supporting Nelson, then you’re right on the money
 

secretlevel

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not too much but it may swing it a litte more Citra focused. so just depends on what you like. If you’re going to use 6 oz wh I would personally go 3:1 there too. But if you want it Citra with supporting Nelson, then you’re right on the money
Would adding more Nelson on the hot side bring out less white wine notes and more fruity notes that Nelson adds?
 

HopsAreGood

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Would adding more Nelson on the hot side bring out less white wine notes and more fruity notes that Nelson adds?
I can’t directly answer this because I’m not sure, but I have seen a few people comment that they really like using Nelson on the hot side. I think it would also really depend on the quality of your Nelson as I’ve had some that was pure diesel/dank with no white wine anywhere.

I have a beer fermenting right now where I used Columbus cryo and Nelson hot side, and I’m going to dryhop with 50/50 Nelson/Vic Secret. I’ll report back how it turns out.
 

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I haven’t tried this years but from talks with the members in my club and some commercial versions of 2020 nelson I heard/found there is a herbal component, kinda a basil mint but not quite.. and paired with its traditional dank/ white winey note. The beer I brew is nelson, Riwaka, and Galaxy, so when I do get to it I’ll let you know. I’m hoping it’s good because I have about 2.5 lbs of it for my IPAS and NZ Pilsners
Sounds interesting. Care to share your hop schedule on this one? I've brewed with Riwaka and Galaxy a ton, but never Nelson.
 

chuckeg15

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I may have missed it in the thread somewhere, but what has everybody that uses Wyeast been doing with pitch calculators? They no longer list a "manufactured date," they now only list a "best by date." My current pack of Wyeast 1318 has a best by date of 4/11/21.
 

ShaLaH

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Any negative effects of transferring carbonated beer from conical to keg? Normally I keep 2-3 psi on the keg when I cold crash to alleviate any O2 ingress. For my latest NEIPA, I carbed in the conical to 10 psi and equalized the receiving keg to 10 psi and transferred over. A couple times the line got clogged and was just blowing CO2 into the keg, you could hear it bubbling. Any ill effects from this or am I overthinking it?
 

R.A.I.D

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Any negative effects of transferring carbonated beer from conical to keg? Normally I keep 2-3 psi on the keg when I cold crash to alleviate any O2 ingress. For my latest NEIPA, I carbed in the conical to 10 psi and equalized the receiving keg to 10 psi and transferred over. A couple times the line got clogged and was just blowing CO2 into the keg, you could hear it bubbling. Any ill effects from this or am I overthinking it?
I ferment in a keg and transfer to another keg. For inspiration: I solved the clogging problem by shortening the dip tube.
 

ShaLaH

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I ferment in a keg and transfer to another keg. For inspiration: I solved the clogging problem by shortening the dip tube.
Do you almost fully carbonate in the Ferment Keg then transfer to the serving keg? I'm just wondering if moving carbonated beer in between vessels and splashing around has any effect on the aroma.
 

BeerFst

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Do you almost fully carbonate in the Ferment Keg then transfer to the serving keg? I'm just wondering if moving carbonated beer in between vessels and splashing around has any effect on the aroma.
You still need to star san or water purge the receiving keg to eliminate (mostly) the 02 sitting in that keg. Just purging with Co2 pressure is not enough. there is an article out there for low oxygen brewing that demonstrated it required something like 30 full purges at 30PSI to get rid of a significant amount of O2.

closed transferring carbed beer is fine as long you keep pressure on the receiving keg to help prevent foaming. it is a counter pressure transfer just like a counter pressure bottle filler. this is easily accomplished with a spunding valve and pushing it via Co2.

The alternative is to rely on gravity. star san purge receiving keg, Pressurize to the same psi as the conical. place conical some level above the top of the keg. Hook up liquid out on conical to liquid out on receiving keg, hook up gas in on receiving keg to conical, assuming you have a ball lock connection on there somewhere. The two containers will equalize and beer should start to flow into the receiving keg below.

do not hook up to "in post" that will result in foaming no matter what, you want to fill from bottom
 

ShaLaH

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Yeah, this is what I do. I fill the serving keg with starsan to the brim. I push out all the starsan with CO2 so the keg is completely full of CO2. I make sure the psi of the keg is the same as my conical. I hook up a line from my conical to the serving keg and I crack the pressure relief valve a tiny bit so that the pressure can be released, otherwise the liquid will stop moving.
 

secretlevel

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I ferment in a keg and transfer to another keg. For inspiration: I solved the clogging problem by shortening the dip tube.
That's pretty wild, I use a floating dip tube and as soon as I get toward the last 1.5 gallon, hops just clog everything. I dry hop loose and cold crash for about 48 hours... Are you guys crashing for longer?
 
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HopsAreGood

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@Dgallo Just got my hands on a single hop Riwaka ipa from a very good, highly respected local brewery. I know you are a huge fan of this hop and the descriptors sound awesome. However, as I’m drinking this all I’m getting is heavy coriander/Belgian flavors. Apparently a bunch of folks on untapped are reporting similar tasting notes. Have you ever experienced this with Riwaka?

273D777A-7E38-44C2-B294-03B924F2C8BE.png
 

Noob_Brewer

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@Dgallo Just got my hands on a single hop Riwaka ipa from a very good, highly respected local brewery. I know you are a huge fan of this hop and the descriptors sound awesome. However, as I’m drinking this all I’m getting is heavy coriander/Belgian flavors. Apparently a bunch of folks on untapped are reporting similar tasting notes. Have you ever experienced this with Riwaka?

View attachment 701679
interesting, I have a bunch of riwaka that I plan on using some next month. Do you know what Kane uses for its house yeast?
 
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