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Dgallo

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@Dgallo Just got my hands on a single hop Riwaka ipa from a very good, highly respected local brewery. I know you are a huge fan of this hop and the descriptors sound awesome. However, as I’m drinking this all I’m getting is heavy coriander/Belgian flavors. Apparently a bunch of folks on untapped are reporting similar tasting notes. Have you ever experienced this with Riwaka?

View attachment 701679
I have not but also I haven’t brewed with the 2020 batch yet. Coriander/Belgian notes make me think it’s more yeast phenol related than hop related. Maybe their house yeast is a blend with a Belgian strain and the generation they’re at now leaned too far that direction. That actually happened to Peekskill brewing in ny with a batch of their Aussie Slang pale ale 2 years ago and it turned their typical juicy Pale ale very Belgian character forward. It wasn’t bad but clovie/bubblegum heavy

Do you personally know anyone at the brewery that you could ask them about the beer?
 

HopsAreGood

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interesting, I have a bunch of riwaka that I plan on using some next month. Do you know what Kane uses for its house yeast?
I’m not sure what their house yeast is but I suspect it’s very clean and neutral. I’ve probably had more than 50+ various ipas from them over the years, and one thing that I really like about them is that I feel like I can always pick out and identify the hops that they list in their descriptions....which is why I’m curious about the Riwaka. I know different lots from different farms can provide different flavor profiles, but this is very different than what I was expecting.
 

Dgallo

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I’m not sure what their house yeast is but I suspect it’s very clean and neutral. I’ve probably had more than 50+ various ipas from them over the years, and one thing that I really like about them is that I feel like I can always pick out and identify the hops that they list in their descriptions....which is why I’m curious about the Riwaka. I know different lots from different farms can provide different flavor profiles, but this is very different than what I was expecting.
Hill farmstead is in a group of breweries that definitely get the best Riwaka in the US. Here is the BA Link to their 2020 Riwaka (pale ale) they released in late September. I don’t see any mentions of coriander or Belgian, but quite a few folks mention some herbal/vegetable character and spice. So it’s certainly possible. My brother in law got an EQ fractical recently that featured nelson and sworn it had a minty note in it, so it’s possible the bumper 2020 crop ended up having a negative effect of on the NZ hops
 

HopsAreGood

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Hill farmstead is in a group of breweries that definitely get the best Riwaka in the US. Here is the BA Link to their 2020 Riwaka (pale ale) they released in late September. I don’t see any mentions of coriander or Belgian, but quite a few folks mention some herbal/vegetable character and spice. So it’s certainly possible. My brother in law got an EQ fractical recently that featured nelson and sworn it had a minty note in it, so it’s possible the bumper 2020 crop ended up having a negative effect of on the NZ hops
I’ll just add that this beer is in no way bad or off putting...just completely different than what I was expecting. I actually kind of dig it, but if I blind taste tested it I’d say it was some kind of Belgian ipa hybrid.
 

HopsAreGood

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On a side note, I’m going to be doing a bit of a Nelson experiment in the next few months. I’ve got a bunch of the 2020 Yakima valley Nelson and it smells absolutely amazing upon opening the bag. It’s more pungent and in your face than pretty much any other hops I’ve ever smelled. Also, most of the hops I usually open are fairly dry and sort of hard, but these are almost soft and sticky...they just seem super fresh and extremely potent. I just ordered some other 2020 crop hops from YVH and will be pairing them all with said Nelson in a 50/50 blend. I’m going to keep the water profile, grain bill, mash temp, and all other variables the same and hopefully gain some insight into some good combos. I’ll be using the following:

Nelson/Galaxy
Nelson/Vic Secret
Nelson/Nectaron
Nelson/Strata
Nelson/Citra

6 pounds 2-row
6 pounds Golden Promise
2 pounds malted oats
8 oz golden naked oats

Mash 152
PH: 5.25

2 oz. Columbus at 15
2 oz. Nelson/2 oz. other hop at 170 WP
4 oz. Nelson/4 oz. other hop DH

I’ll report back with updates.
 

Noob_Brewer

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On a side note, I’m going to be doing a bit of a Nelson experiment in the next few months. I’ve got a bunch of the 2020 Yakima valley Nelson and it smells absolutely amazing upon opening the bag. It’s more pungent and in your face than pretty much any other hops I’ve ever smelled. Also, most of the hops I usually open are fairly dry and sort of hard, but these are almost soft and sticky...they just seem super fresh and extremely potent. I just ordered some other 2020 crop hops from YVH and will be pairing them all with said Nelson in a 50/50 blend. I’m going to keep the water profile, grain bill, mash temp, and all other variables the same and hopefully gain some insight into some good combos. I’ll be using the following:

Nelson/Galaxy
Nelson/Vic Secret
Nelson/Nectaron
Nelson/Strata
Nelson/Citra

6 pounds 2-row
6 pounds Golden Promise
2 pounds malted oats
8 oz golden naked oats

Mash 152
PH: 5.25

2 oz. Columbus at 15
2 oz. Nelson/2 oz. other hop at 170 WP
4 oz. Nelson/4 oz. other hop DH

I’ll report back with updates.
my mouth is watering man! Love some nelson! haven't used any of my 2020 nelson yet, but excited to. Where'd you get the nectaron? heard great things about that hop.
 

HopsAreGood

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Get it while it’s available...

 

RCope

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Nectaron. Yeah, I ordered a kilo from beerco.com (Australia) a month ago and still not delivered. As soon as YVH updated their website, there it was..not cheaper but a lot less expensive for shipping and a lot more predictable...Oh well.
 

HopsAreGood

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Nectaron. Yeah, I ordered a kilo from beerco.com (Australia) a month ago and still not delivered. As soon as YVH updated their website, there it was..not cheaper but a lot less expensive for shipping and a lot more predictable...Oh well.
Man that sucks. Sorry to hear that. I had a single hop nectaron recently that was really amazing. I’m probably going to order some more of it and do a single hop beer with it of my own. Very similar to nelson but different enough to stand on its own.
 

BeerFst

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While checking out that nectaron I clicked on the lupomax entry and noticed 2020 is likely to include a ton more varieties.

El dorado, Bru1, azacca, amarillo, ekuanot, Idaho7

Also not digging they don’t have qty remaining in stock anymore, least not showing on the mobile site
 

Noob_Brewer

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Man that sucks. Sorry to hear that. I had a single hop nectaron recently that was really amazing. I’m probably going to order some more of it and do a single hop beer with it of my own. Very similar to nelson but different enough to stand on its own.
Thanks for the info! just ordered a pound. Similar to nelson eh? love the nelson. YVH says its a "full sister" to waimea? No clue what that means considering they usually say what the parent hops are. Nonetheless, I did a single hop pale ale with Waimea and its great! so if nectaron is anywhere in the waimea/nelson spectrums Ill be very happy.
 

BeerFst

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Thanks for the info! just ordered a pound. Similar to nelson eh? love the nelson. YVH says its a "full sister" to waimea? No clue what that means considering they usually say what the parent hops are. Nonetheless, I did a single hop pale ale with Waimea and its great! so if nectaron is anywhere in the waimea/nelson spectrums Ill be very happy.
I get the feeling it means it’s from the same parents, where a half sister would be just one parent?
 

Noob_Brewer

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While checking out that nectaron I clicked on the lupomax entry and noticed 2020 is likely to include a ton more varieties.

El dorado, Bru1, azacca, amarillo, ekuanot, Idaho7

Also not digging they don’t have qty remaining in stock anymore, least not showing on the mobile site
One thing I noticed about the old "quantity remaining" scheme is that it updates lol. I ordered some nelson 2020 stock when there was 23 "remaining" for 2oz packets. two days later it showed 76 remaining! lol
 

Noob_Brewer

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I get the feeling it means it’s from the same parents, where a half sister would be just one parent?
I agree, but Im a total sucker for trying new hops and like I said, the waimea single hop pale ale is on tap now for me and great! But if you are a "full sister" to another hop with same parents, what makes you different from her? I guess I will have to see for myself lol.
 

BeerFst

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One thing I noticed about the old "quantity remaining" scheme is that it updates lol. I ordered some nelson 2020 stock when there was 23 "remaining" for 2oz packets. two days later it showed 76 remaining! lol
I mean it kinda makes sense they have to break it up into smaller packages. I just like knowing if I can wait til later or need to jump out of a meeting to make sure I get my hops, ha

On your other question it’s all genetics, just like if you had a dig long they aren’t gonna be identical to you unless your twins.

for two parents, one with gene pair Aa and the other Bb you have 4 combos. AB Ab aB ab

Each of those will express differently and could be awful or great. You have to grow them to find out and just get lucky. Then you get into recessive and dominant genes like brown hair vs red . And that’s just one gene, there are a ton of variables
 

Noob_Brewer

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with riwaka, nelson, nectaron, waimea and others, it seems that 2020 is the year of new zealand hop madness!
 

HopsAreGood

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Thanks for the info! just ordered a pound. Similar to nelson eh? love the nelson. YVH says its a "full sister" to waimea? No clue what that means considering they usually say what the parent hops are. Nonetheless, I did a single hop pale ale with Waimea and its great! so if nectaron is anywhere in the waimea/nelson spectrums Ill be very happy.
The single hop nectaron was incredible.. it had that same dank/punchiness/white wine kind of character that Nelson does, but it’s unique in its own way. It was from the same brewery that made the single hop Riwaka I was referencing a few hours ago.

FC4BFCB7-8DC6-44AE-B9A6-B9464237FB5C.png
 

BeerFst

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with riwaka, nelson, nectaron, waimea and others, it seems that 2020 is the year of new zealand hop madness!
Definitely. I think I’ll pick up some nectaron, I also grabbed a blend of NZH107 from 2019. Not sure what’s in it but I am putting all 8 oz into this micro ipa @1.5%. It’s getting dry hopped tomorrow. Fermentation chamber smells awesome
 

Fergal

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On a side note, I’m going to be doing a bit of a Nelson experiment in the next few months. I’ve got a bunch of the 2020 Yakima valley Nelson and it smells absolutely amazing upon opening the bag. It’s more pungent and in your face than pretty much any other hops I’ve ever smelled. Also, most of the hops I usually open are fairly dry and sort of hard, but these are almost soft and sticky...they just seem super fresh and extremely potent. I just ordered some other 2020 crop hops from YVH and will be pairing them all with said Nelson in a 50/50 blend. I’m going to keep the water profile, grain bill, mash temp, and all other variables the same and hopefully gain some insight into some good combos. I’ll be using the following:

Nelson/Galaxy
Nelson/Vic Secret
Nelson/Nectaron
Nelson/Strata
Nelson/Citra

6 pounds 2-row
6 pounds Golden Promise
2 pounds malted oats
8 oz golden naked oats

Mash 152
PH: 5.25

2 oz. Columbus at 15
2 oz. Nelson/2 oz. other hop at 170 WP
4 oz. Nelson/4 oz. other hop DH

I’ll report back with updates.
I don't see a bad combo there! Can confirm Nelson / Strata to be one of my favorite's & Nelson / Nectaron tastes like NZ in a can. Nectaron / Strata would be just as good to throw a spanner in the works!
 

beervoid

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My latest Strata came out too dank. 50/50 split with Citra, I didnt get any tropical notes. Anyone else experienced this? Might have to tone down strata a bit.
 

Willum

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@Dgallo Just got my hands on a single hop Riwaka ipa from a very good, highly respected local brewery. I know you are a huge fan of this hop and the descriptors sound awesome. However, as I’m drinking this all I’m getting is heavy coriander/Belgian flavors. Apparently a bunch of folks on untapped are reporting similar tasting notes. Have you ever experienced this with Riwaka?

View attachment 701679
I have that beer and my first thought was is this infected. Because Kane uses a clean yeast for there IPAs.Even their Wit, cloud cover, is pretty clean for a Belgian style beer. Then I tried the double dry hopped Party Wave which also had Riwaka and got the same flavor, so I do think it is the hop. Party Wave is my Favorite beer by Kane, but the addition of Riwaka made me hate this special release.
 

HopsAreGood

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I have that beer and my first thought was is this infected. Because Kane uses a clean yeast for there IPAs.Even their Wit, cloud cover, is pretty clean for a Belgian style beer. Then I tried the double dry hopped Party Wave which also had Riwaka and got the same flavor, so I do think it is the hop. Party Wave is my Favorite beer by Kane, but the addition of Riwaka made me hate this special release.
Yup, I also have the double dry hopped party wave with the second dry hop containing Nelson/Riwaka. Had one last night and while I didn’t find the coriander/Belgian flavor as strong as the single hop Riwaka, it’s def still there. I suspect Kane uses Chico or something very similar so I doubt the yeast is contributing much.
 

aaronm13

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My latest Strata came out too dank. 50/50 split with Citra, I didnt get any tropical notes. Anyone else experienced this? Might have to tone down strata a bit.
Did a 50/50 Strata/Citra too and got the same taste from it, way too dank. Its total oil content is around 3.5ml/100g so it packs a punch. I ended up adding more citra to the keg and it really improved it.
 

HopsAreGood

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Did a 50/50 Strata/Citra too and got the same taste from it, way too dank. Its total oil content is around 3.5ml/100g so it packs a punch. I ended up adding more citra to the keg and it really improved it.
Interesting. I’ve used Strata a few times and have never gotten any dankness from it. It’s always just been generically fruity, although the one time I used a lot of it I was able to pick out some of the strawberry notes it’s supposed to have.
 

aaronm13

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Interesting. I’ve used Strata a few times and have never gotten any dankness from it. It’s always just been generically fruity, although the one time I used a lot of it I was able to pick out some of the strawberry notes it’s supposed to have.
I've gotten strawberry from commercial beers but I haven't been able to get it at all from the 2 times I've used it. Kinda giving up on it now to be honest.
 

chuckeg15

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I've used LA III plenty of times and make a starter everytime. The starter usually has a distinct good smell, however, this time it smells like sulfur. Any suggestions? I tasted it and it doesn't taste sour or anything. I'm hoping it's just the gases from the starter.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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I had the HF Riwaka single hop Pale Ale last week and it had the "typical" Riwaka taste (which I can't describe but do not care for) for the first week and then turned a pleasant shade of pine like a Simcoe and Citra mix that was pretty good. I am not sure that I would bet a batch on Riwaka by itself and would instead hit it with another proven mainstream hop,

As usual Edward was a beautiful beer from canning day to a couple weeks after.
 
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Willum

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Yup, I also have the double dry hopped party wave with the second dry hop containing Nelson/Riwaka. Had one last night and while I didn’t find the coriander/Belgian flavor as strong as the single hop Riwaka, it’s def still there. I suspect Kane uses Chico or something very similar so I doubt the yeast is contributing much.
Interesting, the only thing I could taste in the DDH party wave was that Belgian taste. I guess I am pretty sensitive to it. It also just bothers me because I had no intention of buying/drinking a Belgian NEIPA.
 

Willum

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Since we are talking about Kane. Here is my attempt to make something similar to Party Wave. It comes out pretty good, but I think @HopsAreGood may be onto something. I use either Conan or 1318 I may try Chico next

New England IPA
7.2% / 17.5 °P
Recipe by
Anvil Foundry 6.5 Gallon
69% efficiency
Batch Volume: 3 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 4.52 gal
Total Water: 4.52 gal
Boil Volume: 3.99 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.061
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.072
Final Gravity: 1.017
IBU (Tinseth): 42
Color: 5.3 SRM
Mash
Strike Temp — 156.6 °F
Temperature — 149 °F90 min
Malts (8 lb 7.8 oz)
3 lb 3.6 oz (36.9%) — Simpsons Pale Ale Golden Promise — Grain — 2.4 °L
3 lb 3.6 oz (36.9%) — Viking Malt Pilsner — Grain — 2.1 °L
13.6 oz (9.7%) — Oats, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 °L
13.6 oz (9.7%) — Rahr Wheat Malt White — Grain — 2.9 °L
2.7 oz (1.9%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 1.9 °L
2.7 oz (1.9%) — Briess Caramel Malt — Grain — 10 °L
Other (4 oz)
4 oz (2.9%) — Briess Rice Hulls — Adjunct — 0 °L
Hops (8.14 oz)
0.15 oz (12 IBU) — Warrior 15.3% — Boil — 60 min
2 oz
(15 IBU) — Simcoe 13.2% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
1 oz
(7 IBU) — Citra 12.6% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
1 oz
(8 IBU) — Mosaic 13.8% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
1.5 oz
— Citra 12.6% — Dry Hop — 3 days
1.5 oz
— Mosaic 11.4% — Dry Hop — 3 days
1 oz
— Galaxy 13.3% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 170 °F
Miscs
4.8 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
1.6 g
— Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.7 g
— Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
1 items
— Whirlfloc — Boil10 min
1 g
— Yeast Nutrients — Boil10 min
Yeast
1 pkg — Omega OYL-052 DIPA Ale 76%
1.6 L starter
5.54 oz DME / 6.77 oz LME
100 billion cells overbuild: 0.52 L (33%)
Pitch Amount: 1.08 L
307
billion yeast cells
1.03 million cells / ml / °P
Fermentation
Primary — 68 °F12 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol
Water Profile
Ca2 101Mg2 9Na 8 Cl 139 SO42 93 HCO3 16
 

R.A.I.D

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The aroma in my last NEIPA is amazingly intense! Wow!

Compared to my other NEIPAs I splitted the whirlpool hops to 1oz at 80C, 2oz at 71C and 1oz at 42C and I changed the yeast to S-33.
My guess is that it is the yeast that is responsable for the increased aroma intensity.

S-33 has low attenuation. Like 68 pct. But I managed to get from 1077 oc to 1019 oc by mashing low at 62C and adding 7 pct table sugar to the grain bill.

Fingers crossed that this beer stays hazy and smooth like it is now (still only matured for one week).
 

secretlevel

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The aroma in my last NEIPA is amazingly intense! Wow!

Compared to my other NEIPAs I splitted the whirlpool hops to 1oz at 80C, 2oz at 71C and 1oz at 42C and I changed the yeast to S-33.
My guess is that it is the yeast that is responsable for the increased aroma intensity.

S-33 has low attenuation. Like 68 pct. But I managed to get from 1077 oc to 1019 oc by mashing low at 62C and adding 7 pct table sugar to the grain bill.

Fingers crossed that this beer stays hazy and smooth like it is now (still only matured for one week).
Very cool, I'll have to try a multi-temp whirlpool schedule like this. S-33 is also definitely on the list, Fermentis have really been hyping it up.

Question about whirlpool hops for you guys - I used to use a fine mesh colander to filter out the boil/wp hops from the kettle as I transfer into the fermenter. Does anyone else do this or do your WP hops go into fermenter?
 

R.A.I.D

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Question about whirlpool hops for you guys - I used to use a fine mesh colander to filter out the boil/wp hops from the kettle as I transfer into the fermenter. Does anyone else do this or do your WP hops go into fermenter?
I whirlpool with loose pellets to maximize efficiency. I brew 2L more than fits into my fermenter. If I make a solid WP and let everything settle for 10 min then all the hops will form a cone in the center of the kettle and I can transfer the wort to the fermenter while leaving the WP hops in the kettle.
 

skleice

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With the knowledge that both Sabro and Galaxy are potent, what would be your whirlpool and dry hop ratio? I would love a Piña Colada vibe...

Bravo - .25oz @ 60
Bravo - 1oz @ 10
Bravo & Sabro 160° whirlpool
Sabro & Galaxy dry hop

Survivables FTW
 

Dgallo

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With the knowledge that both Sabro and Galaxy are potent, what would be your whirlpool and dry hop ratio? I would love a Piña Colada vibe...

Bravo - .25oz @ 60
Bravo - 1oz @ 10
Bravo & Sabro 160° whirlpool
Sabro & Galaxy dry hop

Survivables FTW
I’ve come to like about 20-30% of my hop bill be Sabro and I do keep it roughly the same in both wh/dh. With That said, I’ve never paired it will galaxy though so someone may be able to steer you even more directly
 

BeerFst

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I’ve come to like about 20-30% of my hop bill be Sabro and I do keep it roughly the same in both wh/dh. With That said, I’ve never paired it will galaxy though so someone may be able to steer you even more directly

Edit: @skleice sorry meant to reply to you not dgallo

I left both out of whirlpool, using mosaic and Columbus instead but dry hopped 7oz galaxy and 1oz sabro, split in two additions. It was only vaguely sabro, I’d probably do 6/2 or 6/3
 
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braindead

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Did a 50/50 Strata/Citra too and got the same taste from it, way too dank. Its total oil content is around 3.5ml/100g so it packs a punch. I ended up adding more citra to the keg and it really improved it.
Damn
I'm about to Dry Hop with a 50/50 of strata and Citra.... Got me a tad worried now.
I got a heap of `strata and Nectaron from Beerco.
Delivery was quick but got absolutely hammered with import tax with customs.
 

R.A.I.D

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Damn
I'm about to Dry Hop with a 50/50 of strata and Citra.... Got me a tad worried now.
I love 100% strata. Just made my 2nd brew with Strata in DH. Personal taste I guess. Give it a try.
 

ryanm8

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When I transfer to the fermenter, I filter through a brew bag to remove hops.

Very cool, I'll have to try a multi-temp whirlpool schedule like this. S-33 is also definitely on the list, Fermentis have really been hyping it up.

Question about whirlpool hops for you guys - I used to use a fine mesh colander to filter out the boil/wp hops from the kettle as I transfer into the fermenter. Does anyone else do this or do your WP hops go into fermenter?
 
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