New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

Would anyone mind sharing their fermentation/pitching profile for a vermont ale / barbarian yeast strain?

I got most ester pitching low temp and letting it freerise to 72f.

 

[stickyfinger]

how low do i have to soft crash us05 to prevent any hop creep when i dry hop? I had a starter flop and need to go with us05... i tried 58f last time and that is NOT low enough...

 

[Dgallo]

how low do i have to soft crash us05 to prevent any hop creep when i dry hop? I had a starter flop and need to go with us05... i tried 58f last time and that is NOT low enough...

I’d say 45-50 should be fine

 

[couchsending]

how low do i have to soft crash us05 to prevent any hop creep when i dry hop? I had a starter flop and need to go with us05... i tried 58f last time and that is NOT low enough...

I think there are a lot of variables at play here with no one answer.

I’d do a forced VDK test on the beer before crashing. Definitely give it a few days after terminal. I’ve seen different recommendations for the Chico style yeasts although I don’t think those use US-05. I would say 24-48 hours at 55 should be fine...

But again it depends on the hops (variety and specific lot) and if there are a lot of dextrins available for the enzymes to convert.

Personally I’ve only experienced dry hop creep once in the last say 70 or so batches that I’ve soft crashed yeast and dry hopped at lower temps. Only one of those batches was US-05.

 

[stickyfinger]

I think there are a lot of variables at play here with no one answer.

I’d do a forced VDK test on the beer before crashing. Definitely give it a few days after terminal. I’ve seen different recommendations for the Chico style yeasts although I don’t think those use US-05. I would say 24-48 hours at 55 should be fine...

But again it depends on the hops (variety and specific lot) and if there are a lot of dextrins available for the enzymes to convert.

Personally I’ve only experienced dry hop creep once in the last say 70 or so batches that I’ve soft crashed yeast and dry hopped at lower temps. Only one of those batches was US-05.

what temp do you soft crash to usually for ipas, 55F? I am leaning toward 50F to make sure I get no hop creep. i've had issues with us05 in the past.

 

[couchsending]

58/60 for the yeasts I have been using. I have been only using rather flocculent yeast as of late and 58/60 is more than enough.

On another note I’ve got a bunch of Mosaic I’ve been working through. Just did a beer with all mosaic. Pellets in boil. Pellets/Cryo in WP and leaf in a hopback. I used the Bell’s yeast strain (stuff I actually harvested from Oberon) and crashed to 58 then dry hopped at 58 and wow is it awesome mosaic flavor/aroma. No stinky/sweaty notes to speak of but a ton of blueberry and mango. Not 100% sure it was just the DH temp but I’ve definitely never made an all Mosaic beer this Fruity without the stank.

 

[couchsending]

Starting a series of experiments this week just using inexpensive hops on the hotside with the sexy hops only for DH. Similar to what Trillium does for their Street series and others.

Warrior for bittering and at 20
Nugget for WP
Found a bunch of Galena leaf for $2/lb and it smells awesome so gonna through that in the hop back. Galena has always intrigued me.

Citra with a bit of Nugget for DH.

After tasting so many gravity samples and then dry hopping beers I really just wonder how much the hotside hop variety really matters unless it’s something incredibly powerful.

 

[stickyfinger]

Have you compared dry hopping in the 40s vs 50s? I think I'll go to 45 or even 40F for US05, as some old posts on HBT claim it can ferment down to 52F.

 

[couchsending]

I haven’t gone that low and don’t plan on it. Only time I ever dry hop even in the low 50s is with a lager strain.

At those low temps you’ll definitely need longer to achieve similar extraction.

 

[Sbe2]

I haven't brewed a batch in a couple months due to summer and seltzer water, but I'm looking for some of your opinions on a hop schedule for the hops that I have:

1 lb of Citra 2018
.5 lb of Mosaic 2018
1 lb of Galaxy 2019
1 lb of Vic Secret 2019
1 lb of Ella 2019

I have never used VS or Ella before, and will be using 1318 as the yeast. Simple grain bill of 50/50 2-row and Golden Promise for a 5 gallon batch.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Sbe2]

Found a bunch of Galena leaf for $2/lb and it smells awesome so gonna through that in the hop back. Galena has always intrigued me.

Never liked using Galena, I got some citrus out of it, but mainly it just made my beers bitter no matter where I put it in the hop schedule. Could also be that commercial Galena is better than my homegrown Galena.

 

[ttuato]

I haven't brewed a batch in a couple months due to summer and seltzer water, but I'm looking for some of your opinions on a hop schedule for the hops that I have:

1 lb of Citra 2018
.5 lb of Mosaic 2018
1 lb of Galaxy 2019
1 lb of Vic Secret 2019
1 lb of Ella 2019

I have never used VS or Ella before, and will be using 1318 as the yeast. Simple grain bill of 50/50 2-row and Golden Promise for a 5 gallon batch.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Skip Ella in combo with either of these - you have four of the most potent hops around and it will be buried. Since you never used VS - I suggest simple combo for balance in the whirlpool and then double down on VS for DH with a nice supporting actor.

Mosaic / Citra - 1:1 for whirlpool

Vic Secret / Citra - 3:1 Dryhop

 

[couchsending]

I haven't brewed a batch in a couple months due to summer and seltzer water, but I'm looking for some of your opinions on a hop schedule for the hops that I have:

1 lb of Citra 2018
.5 lb of Mosaic 2018
1 lb of Galaxy 2019
1 lb of Vic Secret 2019
1 lb of Ella 2019

I have never used VS or Ella before, and will be using 1318 as the yeast. Simple grain bill of 50/50 2-row and Golden Promise for a 5 gallon batch.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

I would maybe give you a different recommendation....

Ella is still rather potent. It’s total oil content is higher than Citra. I wouldn’t use it in kettle but definitely in the dry hop.

Not sure if you’ve ever brewed a beer with all Aussie hops but they’re definitely unique and you can actually get away with using slightly less of them cause they’re so powerful. You’ll also want to give the beer a little longer to condition and potentially change how you dry hop IMHO. As has been discussed the Aussie hops are rather high in polyphenols so you’re more likely to get hop burn and the beer will be incredibly hazy.

Personally I’d use mosaic and a bit of Galaxy in the WP and then some blend of Galaxy, Vic Secret, Ella in the dry hop.

In my experience I find that especially Galaxy is more fruity and less dank/onion/ginger at lower DH temps. I get intense passion fruit candy from it around 57/58.

If you do dry hop during active fermentation you are more likely to get the hop burn associated with the high polyphenol content.

If you can condition this beer for longer and at colder temps it will be more enjoyable and really an intense tropical fruit explosion.

If you don’t want to just focus on the Aussie hops I’d go.

Mosaic/Galaxy 3:1 or 4:1 in WP
Galaxy/Citra 1:1 or 1:3 in DH

Maybe mix some Vic Secret in the DH as well. You’ll get some pine from Vic Secret which might add some depth.

 

[leesmith]

I haven't brewed a batch in a couple months due to summer and seltzer water, but I'm looking for some of your opinions on a hop schedule for the hops that I have:

1 lb of Citra 2018
.5 lb of Mosaic 2018
1 lb of Galaxy 2019
1 lb of Vic Secret 2019
1 lb of Ella 2019

I have never used VS or Ella before, and will be using 1318 as the yeast. Simple grain bill of 50/50 2-row and Golden Promise for a 5 gallon batch.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Why not do a single hop of one of those you haven’t used?

30-60 IBU’s at 60

Flameout of a few ounces.

Same with dry hop.

 

[anteater8]

Question about soft cold crashing before dry hop...

I just crashed my beer down to about 54 degrees, added my dry hops, and then set my fridge to 70 degrees. The next day, the beer temperature is 64 degrees, but all the hops are completely settled at the bottom of the carboy.

Is it better to soft crash, then let the temp rise, then add dry hops? Or for those adding dry hops in the 50's, are you concerns about utilization with the hops settling right away?

 

[Dgallo]

Question about soft cold crashing before dry hop...

I just crashed my beer down to about 54 degrees, added my dry hops, and then set my fridge to 70 degrees. The next day, the beer temperature is 64 degrees, but all the hops are completely settled at the bottom of the carboy.

Is it better to soft crash, then let the temp rise, then add dry hops? Or for those adding dry hops in the 50's, are you concerns about utilization with the hops settling right away?

Some people will have different answers for you but I always make sure I’m up over 65 before I dryhop following the crash. Better extraction at that temp and also I e experience exactly what you did trying to dryhop at 55

 

[SRJHops]

I would maybe give you a different recommendation....

Ella is still rather potent. It’s total oil content is higher than Citra. I wouldn’t use it in kettle but definitely in the dry hop.

Not sure if you’ve ever brewed a beer with all Aussie hops but they’re definitely unique and you can actually get away with using slightly less of them cause they’re so powerful. You’ll also want to give the beer a little longer to condition and potentially change how you dry hop IMHO. As has been discussed the Aussie hops are rather high in polyphenols so you’re more likely to get hop burn and the beer will be incredibly hazy.

Personally I’d use mosaic and a bit of Galaxy in the WP and then some blend of Galaxy, Vic Secret, Ella in the dry hop.

In my experience I find that especially Galaxy is more fruity and less dank/onion/ginger at lower DH temps. I get intense passion fruit candy from it around 57/58.

If you do dry hop during active fermentation you are more likely to get the hop burn associated with the high polyphenol content.

If you can condition this beer for longer and at colder temps it will be more enjoyable and really an intense tropical fruit explosion.

If you don’t want to just focus on the Aussie hops I’d go.

Mosaic/Galaxy 3:1 or 4:1 in WP
Galaxy/Citra 1:1 or 1:3 in DH

Maybe mix some Vic Secret in the DH as well. You’ll get some pine from Vic Secret which might add some depth.

Solid all around, and I can't add too much to these excellent comments from couchsending.

Personally, I like the Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy combo. I'd have to echo couchsending's comment about being careful with Galaxy, especially in the DH. Maybe a little post-fermentation, but not right at bottling.

I found his comments about not adding galaxy during active fermentation to be spot-on from my experience. I once used galaxy in a 3-addition DH, with two during active, and the beer ended up being all phenols/hop bite that never settled down.

I'm personally still experimenting with total hops and WP to DH quantities for a 5-gal batch, which of course can change depending on the hops. Right now I am at about 14 ounces total, with a 50-50 split. At this point, I believe the WP adds most of the flavor and some of the aroma, and the DH adds most of the aroma and some of the flavor. But that could evolve as I keep brewing!

 

[SRJHops]

Some people will have different answers for you but I always make sure I’m up over 65 before I dryhop following the crash. Better extraction at that temp and also I e experience exactly what you did trying to dryhop at 55

There must be a balance or a trade off somewhere. Dry hop at higher temps and you can get hop creep, but DH at lower temps and get less extraction, right? I guess if I had to choose, I'd prefer more extraction and a lower FG... Is this the right way to think about it?

 

[Dgallo]

There must be a balance or a trade off somewhere. Dry hop at higher temps and you can get hop creep, but DH at lower temps and get less extraction, right? I guess if I had to choose, I'd prefer more extraction and a lower FG... Is this the right way to think about it?

Well if you have the ability to drop and pull the yeast out of the fermenter then you can dryhop at a lower temp and extend the time for the extraction and use a blast of co2 to rouse the hops back into suspension. Since I can not do this with my set up it’s easier to dryhop warmer and not disturb the flocced out yeast

 

[anteater8]

Some people will have different answers for you but I always make sure I’m up over 65 before I dryhop following the crash. Better extraction at that temp and also I e experience exactly what you did trying to dryhop at 55

Makes perfect sense to me. Raising the temperature back up after the soft crash was the piece of the equation I've been missing.

 

[Dgallo]

So here’s my latest beer I just tapped 20 mins ago.

Grain
68% Pilsner
20% Flaked Barley
12% Malted Oats

Mashed 154*f

Yeast: Omega 091 Hornindal kviek

Hops
Azacca
Mosaic

Og:1.066
Fg: 1.010
Abv: 7.35%

Impression: so it’s def green but no hopbite. Body is ok, not great. Was aiming for 1.014/15 with the 154*f but the Hornindal just distoyed this beer to 1.010 in 72 hours even though i greatly underpitched. It finishes drier than I wanted. Taste good for being green but right now the esters are competing heavily with the hops. Will update when it hits prime.

 

[nick sekerak]

So here’s my latest beer I just tapped 20 mins ago.

Grain
68% Pilsner
20% Flaked Barley
12% Malted Oats

Mashed 154*f

Yeast: Omega 091 Hornindal kviek

Hops
Azacca
Mosaic

Og:1.066
Fg: 1.010
Abv: 7.35%

Impression: so it’s def green but no hopbite. Body is ok, not great. Was aiming for 1.014/15 with the 154*f but the Hornindal just distoyed this beer to 1.010 in 72 hours even though i greatly underpitched. It finishes drier than I wanted. Taste good for being green but right now the esters are competing heavily with the hops. Will update when it hits prime.

View attachment 643024

Love the color Dgallo, it looks neon totally BA!! Man that has a nice head for only tapping it 20 min prior.

I am planning the next brew using the Kvieking yeast by imperial. What was you pitch rate and ferment temp schedule? I was thinking of pitching at 150-200 billion. This would be my first round using one of these kviek strains. Your grain bill is similar to what i am kinda evolving to by using malted adjuncts instead of flaked. Your comment about it being dryer that you wanted, would you think mashing in around 156* help out. That would be my first thought, but not sure what do you think.

Current Grain bill: ( Picture of the color is in the test beaker, the pint is of a ****** brown commercial brewed neipa)

76% Pilsen malt
8.5% Flaked White Wheat
8.5% Flaked Oats
4.3% Flaked Rice
2.1% Carapils


For my next batch i think i am leaning towards something like the below to ease in to experimenting with malted oats/wheat. Any reasons you are not adding wheat to your grain bill?

Next Grain Bill in the works, after reading Janis's book

70% Pilsen malt
10% Wheat malt
10% Oats Malt
5% Flaked Barley
5% Cara pils ( this may be a bit too high)

 

[Dgallo]

Love the color Dgallo, it looks neon totally BA!! Man that has a nice head for only tapping it 20 min prior.

I am planning the next brew using the Kvieking yeast by imperial. What was you pitch rate and ferment temp schedule? I was thinking of pitching at 150-200 billion. This would be my first round using one of these kviek strains. Your grain bill is similar to what i am kinda evolving to by using malted adjuncts instead of flaked. Your comment about it being dryer that you wanted, would you think mashing in around 156* help out. That would be my first thought, but not sure what do you think.

Current Grain bill: ( Picture of the color is in the test beaker, the pint is of a poopyty brown commercial brewed neipa)

76% Pilsen malt
8.5% Flaked White Wheat
8.5% Flaked Oats
4.3% Flaked Rice
2.1% Carapils
View attachment 643099

For my next batch i think i am leaning towards something like the below to ease in to experimenting with malted oats/wheat. Any reasons you are not adding wheat to your grain bill?

Next Grain Bill in the works, after reading Janis's book

70% Pilsen malt
10% Wheat malt
10% Oats Malt
5% Flaked Barley
5% Cara pils ( this may be a bit too high)

Thanks man. The golden hour right before the sunset last night really just aluminated the glass perfectly. Idk my actually pitchrate but I only used 3/4 of a tablespoon of slurry from an over built starter. So if I had to guess maybe 400-500 million cells. I held at 90 for 2 days and then let it free fall while being insulated until held fg for 24hours which was just under 80 at that point. Went grain to glass on 8 days which included soft crashing of 36 hours, dbl dryhopping, and full crashing to serving temps for 24hrs before racking to the keg.

 

[nick sekerak]

8 days that's crazy.

You have any thoughts on the next grain bill i posted using the malted oats/wheat?

 

[isomerization]

8 days that's crazy.

You have any thoughts on the next grain bill i posted using the malted oats/wheat?

I used 20% malted oats and 13% malted wheat in my last NE IPA and I was very happy with it. Great head retention and “slow pourability” if that’s your thing. I used GP, interested to try a Pilsner malt next time.

 

[SRJHops]

Well if you have the ability to drop and pull the yeast out of the fermenter then you can dryhop at a lower temp and extend the time for the extraction and use a blast of co2 to rouse the hops back into suspension. Since I can not do this with my set up it’s easier to dryhop warmer and not disturb the flocced out yeast

Thanks. A good reminder that we all use different systems, so sometimes processes don't transfer well, etc. I use a regular ol' Big Mouth carboy with a spigot, so the yeast ends up at the bottom until bottling day.

Do you think there is a sweet spot for DH temp, balancing extraction vs hop creep? Say I am using 1318, which tops out at 72 according to the manufacturer. Much difference between 60, 65, 70?

For my latest batch, I did a DH while soft crashing on Day 7-8. The crash temp got down into the 50's. But those hops will be in for a week, while temps go back up to 72. So maybe the longer contact time will do the trick?

I also dry hopped last night on day 12, at 72 degrees, and will be bottling on Saturday. So the higher temp should increase extraction...but perhaps add some hop creep, right? We will see!

 

[SRJHops]

So here’s my latest beer I just tapped 20 mins ago.

Grain
68% Pilsner
20% Flaked Barley
12% Malted Oats

Mashed 154*f

Yeast: Omega 091 Hornindal kviek

Hops
Azacca
Mosaic

Og:1.066
Fg: 1.010
Abv: 7.35%

Impression: so it’s def green but no hopbite. Body is ok, not great. Was aiming for 1.014/15 with the 154*f but the Hornindal just distoyed this beer to 1.010 in 72 hours even though i greatly underpitched. It finishes drier than I wanted. Taste good for being green but right now the esters are competing heavily with the hops. Will update when it hits prime.

View attachment 643024

Looks excellent! I was going to try Hornindal for my latest, but the LHBS was out, so I went with 1318 again. But now you have me a little frightened to use Hornindal, because I am working on trying to get my FG's higher. If you use it again, would you mash higher and/or go with a higher OG or anything else to get the FG higher?

On a different note, how do you feel about Pilsner vs 2-row for the base? I used to use it, then switched to 2-row, but I don't have an opinion either way. I went with a 75 minute boil last time, so thinking I could be using Pilsner pretty easily if there was a compelling reason.

 

[Dgallo]

Looks excellent! I was going to try Hornindal for my latest, but the LHBS was out, so I went with 1318 again. But now you have me a little frightened to use Hornindal, because I am working on trying to get my FG's higher. If you use it again, would you mash higher and/or go with a higher OG or anything else to get the FG higher?

On a different note, how do you feel about Pilsner vs 2-row for the base? I used to use it, then switched to 2-row, but I don't have an opinion either way. I went with a 75 minute boil last time, so thinking I could be using Pilsner pretty easily if there was a compelling reason.

I like hornindal and this is the 4th time I used it and the only time it I had it attenuate this much. This is the only time I underpitched to this extreme and I’m just not sure I like this much ester production.

Only reason I personally use Pilsner over 2 row in some of my recipes is for color. Pilsner is always more yellow/pale verses the yellow orange I get when using 2row

 

[nick sekerak]

Thanks. A good reminder that we all use different systems, so sometimes processes don't transfer well, etc. I use a regular ol' Big Mouth carboy with a spigot, so the yeast ends up at the bottom until bottling day.

Do you think there is a sweet spot for DH temp, balancing extraction vs hop creep? Say I am using 1318, which tops out at 72 according to the manufacturer. Much difference between 60, 65, 70?

For my latest batch, I did a DH while soft crashing on Day 7-8. The crash temp got down into the 50's. But those hops will be in for a week, while temps go back up to 72. So maybe the longer contact time will do the trick?

I also dry hopped last night on day 12, at 72 degrees, and will be bottling on Saturday. So the higher temp should increase extraction...but perhaps add some hop creep, right? We will see!

SRJHops - This reminded me of a podcast that was on basic brewing radio they interviewed S. Janis and he said at Sapwood they dry hop at 58*for 2-3 days. I myself have been doing 2-3 at 65-68.

 

[duelerx]

SRJHops - This reminded me of a podcast that was on basic brewing radio they interviewed S. Janis and he said at Sapwood they dry hop at 58*for 2-3 days. I myself have been doing 2-3 at 65-68.

I have been trying to dry hop as Janis suggested as well at 60F, i ferment in a keg or a speidel and it is kind of a puzzle adding the hops without oxygen ingress after cold crash to 60F.