American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Are you doing Kettle Sours? I've been doing Co-Pitch Sours, so I add LAB before I add Sacch yeast. Lowering the ph to 4.5 prior to pitching LAB inhibits unwanted bacterial growth since it may be a couple days before I add my primary yeast.

Are you using lactic or phosphoric acid to get down to 5.0-5.1?

I personally use lactic acid but either will work. And no, I do not kettle sour, I also co pitch. If I’m using solely lacto tO sour I’ll actually Pitch my sac first so I can get some yeast character in the beer and will pitch the lacto 36-48 hours after. Lacto only typically eats less that 5 GU points on its own so I don’t find the need to pitch it first. Idk if you’ve followed this thread but it’s got some solid info Fast Souring - Modern Methods

 

[anteater8]

Personally I think 30 IBU at 60 is a bit much. You can get more complex flavors by adding more hops throughout the boil.

A lot of people here have been skipping the 60 min addition with good success. I finally tried it with my last all Citra neipa and the bitterness is still there, but it's much softer. 30 min addition 15ish IBU, 15 min addition 9ish IBU, 5 min addition 7ish IBU. HUGE WP at 180 for 20 min 30ish IBU. All IBU calculated via Beersmith so take that how you want. BS says I'm getting 60.8 IBU total. It's definitely not a bitter bomb. Super soft and balanced. Loving it so far.

View attachment 699489

Very good points, I shared those specific combos because they are the ones that have won me medals. I actually have since dialed my 60 min addition down to 20 IBU and I like the difference, although both have been good. I think there's definitely something to be said for layering hop flavor throughout the boil as well.

 

[ShaLaH]

I personally use lactic acid but either will work. And no, I do not kettle sour, I also co pitch. If I’m using solely lacto tO sour I’ll actually Pitch my sac first so I can get some yeast character in the beer and will pitch the lacto 36-48 hours after. Lacto only typically eats less that 5 GU points on its own so I don’t find the need to pitch it first. Idk if you’ve followed this thread but it’s got some solid info Fast Souring - Modern Methods

Yes, that thread is amazing. For my next sour, I'm gonna flip it as you suggest and pitch Sacch first then LAB.

 

[wepeeler]

Very good points, I shared those specific combos because they are the ones that have won me medals. I actually have since dialed my 60 min addition down to 20 IBU and I like the difference, although both have been good. I think there's definitely something to be said for layering hop flavor throughout the boil as well.

Gotcha. I used to shoot for 20 at 60 as well. I've been doing that for close to 4 years. After my last batch, I'm going to experiment with no 60 and more throughout the boil. The layers of flavors that come through are mindblowing.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I ferment in a keg and transfer the beer to another keg with dry hop after soft crash.

I have 2 approaches for preparing the dry hop keg:

1) Put the hops in the dry hop keg at fermentation start and attach the dry hop keg to the fermentation keg so all co2 from the fermentation is purging the dry hop keg completly. Closed transfer to dry hop keg. The system remains closed until the end of dry hopping. Disadvantage is that the dry hopping hops are stored at fermentation temperatures throughout the fermentation. With the risk of aroma evaporating from the hops.

2) Wait until the fermentation is complete. Prepare the dry hop keg by filling it with water or starsan and emptying it with co2. Then opening the keg and add the dry hops. This approach has the risk of introducing oxygen together with the dry hops. I can create a positive pressure with co2 while opening the keg, but the risk of introducing oxygen is still there as I see it. But this approach has the advantage that I can store the hops cold until I start dry hopping.

Thoughts?

 

[Fergal]

you’re now the 3rd person I’ve heard say good things about Ekuanot in a lager...

I find this interesting as Ekuanot always has this really strong green pepper/herbal/vegetal character that I don’t like.

Does it not present like that in lagers? Does lager yeast transform that compound I wonder?

Another data point for Ekuanot in a pilsner! It certainly does have a pepper note but it works very well. My wife reckons its kind of like the way rocket/arugula is peppery which lines up perfectly with what you said you don't like!

 

[R.A.I.D]

@ttuato and others that saw a post I made this past summer about a keg dropping completely clear. My first theory was using malted wheat verse my traditional bill. Then I started to think it was due to moving my keg in the car to the bev center to can, theory was that the proteins that flocced got resuspended and attracted more proteins to them and dropped more out. This theory seemed like a stretch but this weekend I moved a keg of a sour double ipa and just took my first pour from it since then and it is absolutely clear. Looks like resuspending trub can cause a beer to drop clear.

+1 for this theory. My last NEIPA (Trillium Street clone with S-04 yeast) stayed clear for weeks until I transported the keg. Then it started to clear.

 

[marjen]

So I have a question. It seems no matter what yeast I use I always finish around 1.007 to 1.010. Usually use WY 1318 but also used Kviek, lalbrew New England, imperial juice and dryhop. Maybe my tilt is a little off but seeing how others tend to end higher wondering what’s going on.

also for those that can pressurize their ferm tank. I let my fermentation go for 4 days. Went from 1.061 to 1.007. I then closed the valve as I raised temps from 68 to 72. About 36 hrs later it’s still reading 1.007 but pressure rose to 8 psi. I thought pressure only rose if gravity dropped?

 

[brewval]

So I have a question. It seems no matter what yeast I use I always finish around 1.007 to 1.010. Usually use WY 1318 but also used Kviek, lalbrew New England, imperial juice and dryhop. Maybe my tilt is a little off but seeing how others tend to end higher wondering what’s going on.

also for those that can pressurize their ferm tank. I let my fermentation go for 4 days. Went from 1.061 to 1.007. I then closed the valve as I raised temps from 68 to 72. About 36 hrs later it’s still reading 1.007 but pressure rose to 8 psi. I thought pressure only rose if gravity dropped?

What temps are you fermenting at? Are you verifying your readings with hydrometer readings alongside the Tilt?

 

[marjen]

I usually mash around 148-152.
I have not compared tilt to hydrometer recently but have in the past and they looked pretty good.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I ferment in a keg and transfer the beer to another keg with dry hop after soft crash.

I have 2 approaches for preparing the dry hop keg:

1) Put the hops in the dry hop keg at fermentation start and attach the dry hop keg to the fermentation keg so all co2 from the fermentation is purging the dry hop keg completly. Closed transfer to dry hop keg. The system remains closed until the end of dry hopping. Disadvantage is that the dry hopping hops are stored at fermentation temperatures throughout the fermentation. With the risk of aroma evaporating from the hops.

2) Wait until the fermentation is complete. Prepare the dry hop keg by filling it with water or starsan and emptying it with co2. Then opening the keg and add the dry hops. This approach has the risk of introducing oxygen together with the dry hops. I can create a positive pressure with co2 while opening the keg, but the risk of introducing oxygen is still there as I see it. But this approach has the advantage that I can store the hops cold until I start dry hopping.

Thoughts?

I used to do method #2(and still do once in awhile when I don't have a free keg to dry hop), but now almost always do method #1. I think at least for ultra hopped beers the O2 minimization is worth having the hops sit at non-fridge temps for a week. I do the positive pressure thing on method #2, the problem with kegs is since they open inward you can't really turn the gas on until after you crack it. This probably works better on conicals with outward opening ports.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I thought pressure only rose if gravity dropped?

Heating a sealed container with liquid will also Increase the pressure inside the container.

 

[BeerFst]

I used to do method #2(and still do once in awhile when I don't have a free keg to dry hop), but now almost always do method #1. I think at least for ultra hopped beers the O2 minimization is worth having the hops sit at non-fridge temps for a week. I do the positive pressure thing on method #2, the problem with kegs is since they open inward you can't really turn the gas on until after you crack it. This probably works better on conicals with outward opening ports.

turn on gas, Pull PRV, rotate ring 90 degrees so that it stays open, push corny lid in. I only have ball locks, so if you have pin, perhaps this doesnt work

 

[VirginiaHops1]

turn on gas, Pull PRV, rotate ring 90 degrees so that it stays open, push corny lid in. I only have ball locks, so if you have pin, perhaps this doesnt work

Yeah I ferment in pin locks and use ball locks for my serving kegs. I have replaced a couple of the pin lock lids so they now have the manual PRV but back when I was doing it that way I didn't. Good suggestion though

 

[secretlevel]

I recently attended virtual YCH Sensory class on evaluating experimental hops and have a a few of various hops leftover. Has anyone brewed with these or have any good ideas for styles to use them in?

HBC 522 10.2% Alpha
HBC 472 9% Alpha - woody, earthy, vanilla flavors
HBC 630 13.4% Alpha - Cherry, mandarin flavors, maybe DH or WP addition?
HBC 692 7.3% aka Talus

 

[Dgallo]

Just wanted to inform everyone that Yakima Valley Hops has finally stocked 2020 Riwaka. If you haven’t used this hop yet, I highly suggest doing so. Adds some beautiful tropical, grapefruit and earthy notes. It really brings some great complexity to a beer.

 

[MrPowers]

Just wanted to inform everyone that Yakima Valley Hops has finally stocked 2020 Riwaka. If you haven’t used this hop yet, I highly suggest doing so. Adds some beautiful tropical, grapefruit and earthy notes. It really brings some great complexity to a beer.

Thanks for the heads up! I just ordered a pound along with some Citra. I've been wanting to give them a try.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Just wanted to inform everyone that Yakima Valley Hops has finally stocked 2020 Riwaka. If you haven’t used this hop yet, I highly suggest doing so. Adds some beautiful tropical, grapefruit and earthy notes. It really brings some great complexity to a beer.View attachment 699797

Yup I’m pretty pumped to finally get to try these. Was looking on YVH site yesterday and I saw 2020 Riwaka posted but showed “out of stock” so I knew it was getting close. Got some on the way

 

[Dgallo]

Yup I’m pretty pumped to finally get to try these. Was looking on YVH site yesterday and I saw 2020 Riwaka posted but showed “out of stock” so I knew it was getting close. Got some on the way

I think you’ll love it. It’s also great in a Pilsner

 

[crusader1612]

I recently attended virtual YCH Sensory class on evaluating experimental hops and have a a few of various hops leftover. Has anyone brewed with these or have any good ideas for styles to use them in?

HBC 522 10.2% Alpha
HBC 472 9% Alpha - woody, earthy, vanilla flavors
HBC 630 13.4% Alpha - Cherry, mandarin flavors, maybe DH or WP addition?
HBC 692 7.3% aka Talus

I brewed a porter with 472.
Great hop, tropical fruit and citrus with that vanilla and earthy woody note.

 

[crusader1612]

Version 4.0 of my Kveik Hazyt w/ Opshaug this weekend.

Someone challenged me to use 2 hops I've had in my stock fro awhile - sabro and sorachi ace, in the same beer (given their uniqueness). so here i am using some of them. LOL

As per version 3 not alot changes, but im using different boil hops for said "challenge".
The only real change to timing of hops will be dryhopping

So i've got
25g Sabro @ 15min
25g Sorachi Ace @ 5min
100g Nelson Sauvin @ whirlpoo (80deg C)
Pitch day bio transhop - 50g citra
Dryhop 150g Citra

Previously my biotrans hop went in after around 36 hours, right on the cusp of fermentation finishing on kveik yeast (I missed it on V1, as i did 48 hours).

Trying our the pitch day hopping on this with a single dryhop after.
V5.0 (depending on how this one goes will split the biotranshopping up into pitch day and 24 hours later).

Results in around 10 days.

 

[anteater8]

Citra Mosaic Strata NEIPA update

14 lb 2 row
3 lb flaked oats
0.75 lb wheat
0.25 lb honey malt

0.5 oz Warrior (19 IBU)
2 oz Mosaic whirlpool (185 for 30 min)
2 oz Strata whirlpool (185 for 30 min)
2 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Mosaic dry hop
4 oz Strata dry hop

Imperial Juice gen 1

75:150 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.063
F.G. = 1.012
ABV = 7.1%

Aroma: strong ripe mango is overwhelming, with some pineapple, papaya, orange julius

Flavor: strong ripe mango, sweet candied mango, pineapple, hint of passion fruit upfront. The finish has a unique earthy vanilla woodiness...its present, but in soft way that blends with the fruit nicely.

Mouthfeel: a little drier than usual, something I really don't mind in a NEIPA

Overall: definitely a good NEIPA, maybe slightly better than my average. Nothing terribly unique about it other than the intense mango and interesting earthiness. I brewed this to get a sense of Strata and I don't feel like this is so much different than an all Citra Mosaic NEIPA. It is more pungent, but it also took a few weeks longer to condition in the keg.

 

[anteater8]

Also here is an updated tally of the 24 NEIPA hop combos I've tried so far. I ranked them from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Keep in mind I've changed more than just the hops on each of these brews, so take it with a grain of salt.

Rank	Hop Combo
1	Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Galaxy (3rd place, 42.5/50)
1	CTZ, Vic Secret
1	Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7 (1st place, 33.5/50)
1	CTZ, Citra (1st place, 40/50)
1	Citra, Motueka
2	CTZ, Galaxy, Mosaic
2	CTZ, Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
2	Citra
2	Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic
3	Citra, Mosaic, Strata
3	CTZ, Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
3	Citra, Ekuanot
3	Mosaic, Amarillo, Vic Secret
3	CTZ, Simcoe, Motueka, Azacca
3	Mosaic, Ekuanot (didn't place, 33/50)
3	Galaxy, El Dorado
3	Galaxy, Amarillo
4	Azacca
4	Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado
4	Galaxy
5	Nelson
5	Galaxy, Azacca, Ekuanot

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Also here is an updated tally of the 24 NEIPA hop combos I've tried so far. I ranked them from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Keep in mind I've changed more than just the hops on each of these brews, so take it with a grain of salt.

Rank	Hop Combo
1	Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Galaxy (3rd place, 42.5/50)
1	CTZ, Vic Secret
1	Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7 (1st place, 33.5/50)
1	CTZ, Citra (1st place, 40/50)
1	Citra, Motueka
2	CTZ, Galaxy, Mosaic
2	CTZ, Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
2	Citra
2	Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic
3	Citra, Mosaic, Strata
3	CTZ, Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
3	Citra, Ekuanot
3	Mosaic, Amarillo, Vic Secret
3	CTZ, Simcoe, Motueka, Azacca
3	Mosaic, Ekuanot (didn't place, 33/50)
3	Galaxy, El Dorado
3	Galaxy, Amarillo
4	Azacca
4	Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado
4	Galaxy
5	Nelson
5	Galaxy, Azacca, Ekuanot

This is great, thanks for sharing. Is this ranked within-category as well? E.g. CMAG > CM? How much Columbus do you like in the dry hop?

 

[anteater8]

This is great, thanks for sharing. Is this ranked within-category as well? E.g. CMAG > CM? How much Columbus do you like in the dry hop?

They're not ranked within each category, except for the 1st which was my all time favorite.

Pretty much anything that includes Columbus uses the Trillium Melcher St recipe which is all Columbus in the boil and whirlpool, 1 oz of Columbus in the dry hop and 6.5 oz of the other hop in the dry hop.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Also here is an updated tally of the 24 NEIPA hop combos I've tried so far. I ranked them from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Keep in mind I've changed more than just the hops on each of these brews, so take it with a grain of salt.

Rank	Hop Combo
1	Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Galaxy (3rd place, 42.5/50)
1	CTZ, Vic Secret
1	Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7 (1st place, 33.5/50)
1	CTZ, Citra (1st place, 40/50)
1	Citra, Motueka
2	CTZ, Galaxy, Mosaic
2	CTZ, Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
2	Citra
2	Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic
3	Citra, Mosaic, Strata
3	CTZ, Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
3	Citra, Ekuanot
3	Mosaic, Amarillo, Vic Secret
3	CTZ, Simcoe, Motueka, Azacca
3	Mosaic, Ekuanot (didn't place, 33/50)
3	Galaxy, El Dorado
3	Galaxy, Amarillo
4	Azacca
4	Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado
4	Galaxy
5	Nelson
5	Galaxy, Azacca, Ekuanot

Interesting. On Saturday I'm planning on brewing my second neipa using the recipe from the OP in this thread. The first one, in late July, had a touch, (.3oz), of Warrior at 30mins, followed by equal amounts of Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy at 0mins, 170° WP, and first DH. I later keg-hopped an ounce of Galaxy and an oz of Azacca. I thought it was quite good for my first shot at it.

For Saturday I'm still undecided on hops. I have 8oz or more of Citra Lupomax, Mosaic Lupomax, Galaxy, El Dorado, Azacca, and Strata. I'm thinking of dropping the bittering hop addition all together and adding my first hop addition at either flame-out or whirlpool.

 

[MrPowers]

Also here is an updated tally of the 24 NEIPA hop combos I've tried so far. I ranked them from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Keep in mind I've changed more than just the hops on each of these brews, so take it with a grain of salt.

Rank	Hop Combo
1	Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Galaxy (3rd place, 42.5/50)
1	CTZ, Vic Secret
1	Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7 (1st place, 33.5/50)
1	CTZ, Citra (1st place, 40/50)
1	Citra, Motueka
2	CTZ, Galaxy, Mosaic
2	CTZ, Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
2	Citra
2	Mosaic
2	Citra, Mosaic
3	Citra, Mosaic, Strata
3	CTZ, Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy
3	Citra, Ekuanot
3	Mosaic, Amarillo, Vic Secret
3	CTZ, Simcoe, Motueka, Azacca
3	Mosaic, Ekuanot (didn't place, 33/50)
3	Galaxy, El Dorado
3	Galaxy, Amarillo
4	Azacca
4	Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado
4	Galaxy
5	Nelson
5	Galaxy, Azacca, Ekuanot

Can confirm: CTZ + Vic Secret is a dynamite combo. I used that as a variation of the Trillium recipe. I included a small amount of Vic Secret in the whirlpool as well.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Can confirm: CTZ + Vic Secret is a dynamite combo. I used that as a variation of the Trillium recipe. I included a small amount of Vic Secret in the whirlpool as well.

I am going to try this. But I only have 100g Vic Secret and need to add 50-60g of something else. Citra?

 

[MrPowers]

I am going to try this. But I only have 100g Vic Secret and need to add 50-60g of something else. Citra?

I haven't blended Vic Secret with anything else; but I think Mosaic, Galaxy, Idaho 7, or Citra (in order of preference) would all work well.

 

[Dgallo]

I am going to try this. But I only have 100g Vic Secret and need to add 50-60g of something else. Citra?

I’m a big fan of Vic secret and Ella. Citra is always a great choice. IMO Citra is the best supplementary and plays great with everything

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Going to brew an idaho7/citra/sabro next week... or maybe only I7 and Sabro...
How much % of sabro? Never brewed with it. I was thinking of 40% I7/ 40% Citra and 20% sabro. I read it can be overwhelming.

 

[Dgallo]

Going to brew an idaho7/citra/sabro next week... or maybe only I7 and Sabro...
How much % of sabro? Never brewed with it. I was thinking of 40% I7/ 40% Citra and 20% sabro. I read it can be overwhelming.

20% is a good place to start. You’ll def get Sabros character using it at that percentage and will know if you personally like more or less in it

 

[MrPowers]

IMO Citra is the best supplementary and plays great with everything

As far as supplementary hops go, I think the top hops are:
1. Citra (whirlpool/dry hop)
2. Columbus (whirlpool)
3. Idaho 7 (whirlpool/dry hop)
4. El Dorado (whirlpool/dry hop)

 

[Dgallo]

As far as supplementary hops go, I think the top hops are:
1. Citra (whirlpool/dry hop)
2. Columbus (whirlpool)
3. Idaho 7 (whirlpool/dry hop)
4. El Dorado (whirlpool/dry hop)

I agree except I personally can’t stand el dorado. That candy like sweetness just isn’t for me. That being said I absolutely loveD the first time trillium released El Dorado cutting tiles.. that was pure pineapple juice. I’ve never have gotten any el dorado with that chapter personally.

 

[TBryerton]

As far as supplementary hops go, I think the top hops are:
1. Citra (whirlpool/dry hop)
2. Columbus (whirlpool)
3. Idaho 7 (whirlpool/dry hop)
4. El Dorado (whirlpool/dry hop)

I’m about ready to give up on Citra. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like what I get at the homebrew level (usually YVH) is so far off from what I get from a Jjjuliusss or a OH Citra beer that it’s almost not worth it. I know there’s always going to be a gap in quality but I just never get any of that crazy orange/mango flavor I love. The gap seems to be less with most of the other hops.

 

[MrPowers]

I’m about ready to give up on Citra. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like what I get at the homebrew level (usually YVH) is so far off from what I get from a Jjjuliusss or a OH Citra beer that it’s almost not worth it. I know there’s always going to be a gap in quality but I just never get any of that crazy orange/mango flavor I love. The gap seems to be less with most of the other hops.

Maybe try ordering some of the Bells select Citra from their homebrew store. That would probably be some of the highest quality Citra that you can pick up as a homebrewer.

I agree except I personally can’t stand el dorado. That candy like sweetness just isn’t for me. That being said I absolutely loveD the first time trillium released El Dorado cutting tiles.. that was pure pineapple juice. I’ve never have gotten any el dorado with that chapter personally.

I don't love it in every beer, and I don't use it often, but it's great at transforming your base hop into the "candied" version of itself. It's especially awesome combined with Nelson in a session strength beer.

I've never tried it as a single hop or with the CTZ (trillium) recipe, but it doesn't seem like it would stand up too well on it's own.

 

[TBryerton]

Maybe try ordering some of the Bells select Citra from their homebrew store. That would probably be some of the highest quality Citra that you can pick up as a homebrewer.

Thats actually exactly what my plan is. Lol. Either way, I probably wouldn’t stop using it altogether, but stop making beers that focus on it if I can’t get that flavor I want.

 

[secretlevel]

Thats actually exactly what my plan is. Lol. Either way, I probably wouldn’t stop using it altogether, but stop making beers that focus on it if I can’t get that flavor I want.

Well, Citra we get on homebrew level isn't exactly the same as the Citra that OH or TreeHouse picked out, but that doesn't make it bad. I know that lots of these breweries use Cryo alongside regular pellets, and oftentimes things like Incognito.

I've had good luck with Citra, but it's always alongside another hop and always fresh out of the bag. Mosaic is notoriously awesome alongside it, definitively give that a shot. Finally, be sure to throw it in post-fermentation.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Brew day Saturday morning. Still not certain on the hops or ratios or schedule. Looking for feedback, here's what I'm considering:

OP's recipe except for yeast (Kveik Voss) and hops.

170° for 30 minute whirlpool
2 oz. LupoMax Citra
2 oz. LupoMax Mosaic
2 oz. Strata
2 oz. El Dorado

Cold crash after fermentation finishes.

Then:
Dry hop for total of 2-3 days,
2 oz. LupoMax Citra
2 oz. LupoMax Mosaic
2 oz. Strata
2 oz. El Dorado

Closed transfer to purged keg.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Brew day Saturday morning. Still not certain on the hops or ratios or schedule. Looking for feedback, here's what I'm considering:

OP's recipe except for yeast (Kveik Voss) and hops.

170° for 30 minute whirlpool
2 oz. LupoMax Citra
2 oz. LupoMax Mosaic
2 oz. Strata
2 oz. El Dorado

Cold crash after fermentation finishes.

Then:
Dry hop for total of 2-3 days,
2 oz. LupoMax Citra
2 oz. LupoMax Mosaic
2 oz. Strata
2 oz. El Dorado

Closed transfer to purged keg.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

I would move all Citra and Mosaic to WP and move all Strata to DH.
I would skip El Dorado. I still havn't been impressed by it.