New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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This^^^ looks amazing!! I haven't done too many hoppy beers, 2 hearted and a couple others so I'm not good with hop combos. I have citra and mosaic but no galaxy. Could I sub Amarillo? Thanks in advance from a hop noob! :mug:
 
EndOfLine said:
New "Ne" pale ale, been in the keg for 2 days now.
Been doing more experimenting with EKG and Chinook.
I am really digging the blend. The beer was 100% clear prior to Dryhopping (used WLP002)
Now I cant see my fingers on the other side.
CypeUZKWIAAvYVf.jpg
Click to expand...

I did a version of this as well. In primary about 6 days now. 1.045 OG was all. I used 1318 yeast. .5 ounces of chinook at 60 and 10. EKG in whirlpool additions. Going to dry hop with 3 ounces of EKG in dry hopping keg. Will keg it in two 2.5 gallon kegs for serving. Gonna carbonate one of them fairly low and serve it on a beer engine.... Figured that might be an interesting twist on a british session ale.
 
hockeybrewer said:
This^^^ looks amazing!! I haven't done too many hoppy beers, 2 hearted and a couple others so I'm not good with hop combos. I have citra and mosaic but no galaxy. Could I sub Amarillo? Thanks in advance from a hop noob! :mug:
Click to expand...

You could either use the amarillo and simply go 1:1:1 ratio with the citra and mosaic in all additions.

Or, you could go 1.5:1.5 citra:mosaic in all 3 additions. Either one will be good.
 
Thanks for the reply Braufessor I saw your post when I did a search about that hop combo but now come the hard decision. Which combo to use!!
 
hockeybrewer said:
This^^^ looks amazing!! I haven't done too many hoppy beers, 2 hearted and a couple others so I'm not good with hop combos. I have citra and mosaic but no galaxy. Could I sub Amarillo? Thanks in advance from a hop noob! :mug:
Click to expand...


That batch is 1.5:1:5 citra mosaic throughout. Definitely my favorite so far. Haven't been able to get galaxy in a while since I ran out a couple months ago.
 
Braufessor said:
You could either use the amarillo and simply go 1:1:1 ratio with the citra and mosaic in all additions.

Or, you could go 1.5:1.5 citra:mosaic in all 3 additions. Either one will be good.
Click to expand...

Brau, if you are looking for another interesting experiment, that could have implications for simplifying your process, try this.

Do a split batch. Do half exactly with your hop regimen, 4 additions. For the other one, just add the same amount of hops in one addition right after high krausen is reached or when it drops back some.

See if you can tell a difference and which one you prefer.
 
Braufessor said:
Well don't keep us in suspense man..... what are the steps?:mug:
Click to expand...

If he's mentioning LoDO, I'm guessing he's following the same mashing procedure as outlined in that paper... probably some modified Hochkurz. Guessing 30 mins at ~140F, 30 mins at 160F, then a short rest at 168F.

LoDO has inspired me to refine my process postfermentation and look at the use of brett in scavenging oxygen. Sooo I'm doing a 100% brett NEIPA with bootleg biology funk weapon #2. The starter smells exactly like mango naked juice. Super fruit smoothie NEIPA anyone? 1:1 Galaxy and citra.
 
mintyice said:
If he's mentioning LoDO, I'm guessing he's following the same mashing procedure as outlined in that paper... probably some modified Hochkurz. Guessing 30 mins at ~140F, 30 mins at 160F, then a short rest at 168F.

LoDO has inspired me to refine my process postfermentation and look at the use of brett in scavenging oxygen. Sooo I'm doing a 100% brett NEIPA with bootleg biology funk weapon #2. The starter smells exactly like mango naked juice. Super fruit smoothie NEIPA anyone? 1:1 Galaxy and citra.
Click to expand...

Good God! LODO sounds like a COMPLETE, F'ING PITA!!!!! I would love to see LODO disproven!!
 
mintyice said:
If he's mentioning LoDO, I'm guessing he's following the same mashing procedure as outlined in that paper... probably some modified Hochkurz. Guessing 30 mins at ~140F, 30 mins at 160F, then a short rest at 168F.
Click to expand...



So yah it is a modified Hockhurz (which I did for a long time before the LoDO paper), but it's not exactly the same as in the paper. There's another step and the times/temps are a little different. It's the additional step i've found to be the ticket. (Hint: it's the dough in temp/time)



stickyfinger said:
Good God! LODO sounds like a COMPLETE, F'ING PITA!!!!! I would love to see LODO disproven!!
Click to expand...



Yah its a HUGE PITA.... absolutely huge PITA. I don't like doing it at all. But after having done it 5 times now I can tell you with 100% certainty its not hype. The process is so much more work, but it's THE difference between home brew and beer made in the large commercial breweries. It's a step-level improvement in quality.



The only thing i'm doing in my system that the LoDO guys say not to do is use copper. I have a Hydra IC and so far it hasn't caused me issues. But i do everything else from pre-boiling water, sodium MBS, mash cap, softer boil, rapid chill, and most importantly, the fermentation and kegging set up. I ferment in 2-3 corny kegs that have been modified with both dip tubes shortened. I vent the fermentation gas from fermenter gas post, down through receiving keg liquid post, and put a spund valve on the gas post of the receiving keg. The receiving keg is water purged (it also has shortened gas dip tube). I rack from keg to receiving tank without applying any external CO2, or without opening the lid. I rack with gravity points remaining and naturally carbonate.



You can taste/smell it immediately in the mash if you did it right. There is 0 mash aroma and the wort has this unresistable honey like sweetness to it. You want to drink it right from the MLT it's so good.



mintyice said:
I would love to see it applied to NEIPA :)
Click to expand...



I did full on LoDO with my last IPA and its AMAZING. It's completely unlike ANY IPA i've ever made before. There is an underlying crisp sweetness to the beer even though its relatively dry. The hops POP and are still at their peak almost 2 months into the keg.... All i can say is try it once, but you have to do all the steps, no shortcuts, and see for yourself. If you really do it right you're going to hate knowing that it works because its so much more work but the beer is much improved.



The one modification you'll need from the LoDO PDF is how you handle the dry hops. You need to add them with a few gravity points remaining, and after you rack at terminal gravity, you need to add your priming sugar to the receiving keg, then cap it and let it sit for 2 weeks at room temp to carbonate.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480727073.488023.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480727093.657653.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480727115.498402.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480727134.255256.jpg
 
@Braufessor, Brewed my first NE IPA today. Much of the planning and inspiration came from reading this thread. Thank you for the constant flow of info regarding this style. My first impression is shock at the amount of post whirlpool debris left in the wort. Even after I screened it. Cheers, :mug:
 
My first attempt at a NE IPA didn't turn out well. The FG sample was heavenly, but after 8 days carbing at 78F, it's not something I'd want to serve to others.

This is the FG sample. Intensely tropical, if maybe slightly thinner than I was going for.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480729703.468466.jpg

Here it is poured from a bottle right days later. The lighting is different, but it doesn't really matter. This beer is totally different than what went into bottles. It's got all the hallmarks of oxidation (particularly darkening and loss of hop flavor) but it's shocking that it happened so quickly.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480729893.885302.jpg

I'm more determined than ever to finish my kegerator. Got the OK to work on it during Christmastime.
 
Brew_G said:
My first attempt at a NE IPA didn't turn out well. The FG sample was heavenly, but after 8 days carbing at 78F, it's not something I'd want to serve to others.

This is the FG sample. Intensely tropical, if maybe slightly thinner than I was going for.

View attachment 379059

Here it is poured from a bottle right days later. The lighting is different, but it doesn't really matter. This beer is totally different than what went into bottles. It's got all the hallmarks of oxidation (particularly darkening and loss of hop flavor) but it's shocking that it happened so quickly.

View attachment 379062

I'm more determined than ever to finish my kegerator. Got the OK to work on it during Christmastime.
Click to expand...

holy ****e! that IS dramatic! I've noticed friends' beers also get a lot dark, taste more caramely and just aren't great after bottle conditioning. Seems like kegging is essential for these beers.
 
Braufessor said:
I did a version of this as well. In primary about 6 days now. 1.045 OG was all. I used 1318 yeast. .5 ounces of chinook at 60 and 10. EKG in whirlpool additions. Going to dry hop with 3 ounces of EKG in dry hopping keg. Will keg it in two 2.5 gallon kegs for serving. Gonna carbonate one of them fairly low and serve it on a beer engine.... Figured that might be an interesting twist on a british session ale.
Click to expand...

Sounds great! I'm looking forward to your results! I am really happy with mine:
4.8abv

Flameout/WP: 1ounce chinook and 2 ounce of EKG

Dry hop for one day: 1 ounce of chinook and EKG

I needed beer on tap asap. I was 100% out of beer on tap...... I normally have 3 kegs at least..
 
jakturner said:
I've been using this thread as a basic guideline and have landed on Cl and SO4 both around 120 to 140 to be my sweet spot with the .25 honey malt with around 30% flaked grains mostly with Conan, but I wanted to ask with it being that time of year I've been seeing hop hash for sale, anyone ever use it and would it work good in a beer like this?
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It should be basically hop dust from processing and very fragrant. Probably unstable due to oxygenation so I wouldn't store it but dryhop away with it, just expect it to be stronger than pellets from the descriptions I've been reading. Also called hop dust by some suppliers over the years.
 
Mashing in my 80% pils/20% GNO 1:1 Galaxy Citra version. Fermenting with Bootleg Biology's Funk weapon #2.
 
So has anyone successfully bottled this recipe and not browned and loss hop flavor?? I'm really close to being able to keg as I already have 4 kegs, 2 co2 tanks and a regulator from a commercial keg set up from a friend that my lhbs said we can convert. If no one has had success bottling then maybe I'll wait a couple of months to brew this up. Thanks in advance!
 
stickyfinger said:
20% gold naked oats? seems like a lot. they had a very potent flavor the time i used them i think. interesting to see how it tastes
Click to expand...

I did a NEIPA last year with 20% GNO and the resultant beer had great malt depth. Not cloying or sweet at all. Today's hydro sample tasted delicious too.

Aimed for 200ppm Chloride, Sulfate was ~25ppm. 158F 60 min mash. 20min whirlpool @ 150F. 1.5oz each Citra & Galaxy at FO and whirlpool. 1.050 OG.

Funk Weapon #2 starter smelled sooo good today. Can't wait to see what it does to the beer.
 
Need to get the Brulosophy guy on a LoDO version of this. Seems like it benefits beers with a lot of crystal in them (not this beer) more than others. It would be fun to try once though even given the warning that you won't go back.
 
JoeMamasIPA said:
Need to get the Brulosophy guy on a LoDO version of this. Seems like it benefits beers with a lot of crystal in them (not this beer) more than others. It would be fun to try once though even given the warning that you won't go back.
Click to expand...


Doesn't even have to be brulosphy.

I would suggest doing this as a an experiment to test 2 variables - hot side LoDO and cold side LoDO. The paper says it's all or nothing, and that may be true for the 'fresh malt flavor' portion, but i think the LoDO on the cold side would be of utmost importance to styles like IPA.

So i'd propose 4 variations on the same recipe:
1. Normal process. No LoDO on hot or cold.
2. LoDO on hot side (boiled water with SMB) but not on cold side (I.e rack and force carb)
3. Normal hot side. LoDO on cold side only (rack into rigorously purged vessel under closed system with fermentable sugar remaining)
4. LoDO on hot and cold.

Aside from taste, DO will need to be measured for each sample.

Lot more factors to control and test for than just mentioned above.
 
Any updates on this test @Braufessor? I saw that you tapped one of them a few days ago.

Braufessor said:
Brewing the first of my three side by side beers today with the following water additions:
Sulfate:Chloride
140:70
70:140
120:120

Going with Citra:Galaxy 1.5:1.5 in all 4 additions in all 3 beers

1056 Yeast

I don't expect anything monumentally difference in these beers, but I am curious if there is a difference in personal preference from one to the other. Curious to see if I can tell the difference at any significant level. Going to try to brew them 2 days apart so I can keep them as close to identically fresh as possible and so I can just move a new one into dry hopping keg when I move the finished one out.

Probably 3-4 weeks until all 3 are on tap and I can really check them out, but will let everyone know if there is anything worth knowing.
Click to expand...
 
hockeybrewer said:
So has anyone successfully bottled this recipe and not browned and loss hop flavor?? I'm really close to being able to keg as I already have 4 kegs, 2 co2 tanks and a regulator from a commercial keg set up from a friend that my lhbs said we can convert. If no one has had success bottling then maybe I'll wait a couple of months to brew this up. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I am bottling these...two out of my three batches seem to oxidize or at least brown faster than I am used to. Those two had higher dry hopping rates than the other. My problem has not been loss of hop flavor but too vegetal, overhopped flavor. I am planning to back off the high dry hop rates somewhat, but keeping other things, flaked grains, salts, etc. and see if it improves. Its interesting people recently talking about LoDO as crucial when in the past I've bottled good hoppy IPA's that didn't really seem to suffer from oxidation at all. Something about the extra dry hops for me that is giving me grief. I've also wondered, when I am using Conan I tend to keep the ferm temps higher to ensure it finishes out and I wonder if I am applying "extra aging" compared to you keggers who are doing dry hop #2 in the keg and getting it colder faster.
 
schematix said:
Doesn't even have to be brulosphy.

I would suggest doing this as a an experiment to test 2 variables - hot side LoDO and cold side LoDO. The paper says it's all or nothing, and that may be true for the 'fresh malt flavor' portion, but i think the LoDO on the cold side would be of utmost importance to styles like IPA.

So i'd propose 4 variations on the same recipe:
1. Normal process. No LoDO on hot or cold.
2. LoDO on hot side (boiled water with SMB) but not on cold side (I.e rack and force carb)
3. Normal hot side. LoDO on cold side only (rack into rigorously purged vessel under closed system with fermentable sugar remaining)
4. LoDO on hot and cold.

Aside from taste, DO will need to be measured for each sample.

Lot more factors to control and test for than just mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Another factor could be closed and open transfer from fermenter to keg.
 
JJ900 said:
I am bottling these...two out of my three batches seem to oxidize or at least brown faster than I am used to. Those two had higher dry hopping rates than the other. My problem has not been loss of hop flavor but too vegetal, overhopped flavor. I am planning to back off the high dry hop rates somewhat, but keeping other things, flaked grains, salts, etc. and see if it improves. Its interesting people recently talking about LoDO as crucial when in the past I've bottled good hoppy IPA's that didn't really seem to suffer from oxidation at all. Something about the extra dry hops for me that is giving me grief. I've also wondered, when I am using Conan I tend to keep the ferm temps higher to ensure it finishes out and I wonder if I am applying "extra aging" compared to you keggers who are doing dry hop #2 in the keg and getting it colder faster.
Click to expand...

I add a massive dry hop addition to mine and use Conan and raise the temp as it finishes out. I don't see this as adding any kind of aging. Also, I have never keg hopped any beer I've brewed. I do however make damn sure to eliminate any exposure to oxygen that I can. It's critical.
 
duelerx said:
Another factor could be closed and open transfer from fermenter to keg.
Click to expand...

Yah that's one of the "other" things that would have to be normalized. It would be a monumental experiment for sure. The LoDO guys state the volume of regular atmospheric air in a shot glass is more than enough to raise the DO of an entire 5G keg above what is generally considered to be too high.

The krux of the LoDO cold side process is to take advantage of yeast's natural O2 scavenging during active fermentation. For lagers they suggest you transfer into a liquid purged keg, using a closed system, and with remaining fermentation extract (4-6 points).

For an IPA that's a lot harder because you need to introduce dry hops and then rack off the dry hops. So the best solution i've come up with is to add dry hops with ~4 points remaining.... let those soak a few days until you reach FG, then rack to serving keg, then open the lid and add priming sugar, then seal and purge as normal (say 4-5 purge cycles with tank CO2). Let stand at room temp for 2 weeks, then chill, and drink the next day.
 
Made this today for the 4th or 5th time. Have been using just citra/mosaic in the past.

Running out of both....so today went with a Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo combo for the brew day additions.

However, now debating what to do for dry hop. Totally out of citra and mosaic. Have a TON of Amarillo (like 3 lbs) in hand, so originally just planned to dry hop with that. But also realized I had some Columbus.

Would you dry hop with Columbus? Amarillo? Or both?
 
ruascott said:
Made this today for the 4th or 5th time. Have been using just citra/mosaic in the past.

Running out of both....so today went with a Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo combo for the brew day additions.

However, now debating what to do for dry hop. Totally out of citra and mosaic. Have a TON of Amarillo (like 3 lbs) in hand, so originally just planned to dry hop with that. But also realized I had some Columbus.

Would you dry hop with Columbus? Amarillo? Or both?
Click to expand...


columbus is great as dry hop just add less than amarillo
 
ruascott said:
Made this today for the 4th or 5th time. Have been using just citra/mosaic in the past.

Running out of both....so today went with a Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo combo for the brew day additions.

However, now debating what to do for dry hop. Totally out of citra and mosaic. Have a TON of Amarillo (like 3 lbs) in hand, so originally just planned to dry hop with that. But also realized I had some Columbus.

Would you dry hop with Columbus? Amarillo? Or both?
Click to expand...


Agree with stickyfinger. Go something like 4:1 Amarillo:Columbus if you can and don't add Columbus to age awhile or as a keg hop. I've done it and it starts peppery then goes to garlic and onion and overpowers everything.
 
grassfeeder said:
I add a massive dry hop addition to mine and use Conan and raise the temp as it finishes out. I don't see this as adding any kind of aging. Also, I have never keg hopped any beer I've brewed. I do however make damn sure to eliminate any exposure to oxygen that I can. It's critical.
Click to expand...

And you are bottling? That is great. Are you doing anything with CO2 to prevent oxygen exposure?
 
schematix said:
Yah that's one of the "other" things that would have to be normalized. It would be a monumental experiment for sure. The LoDO guys state the volume of regular atmospheric air in a shot glass is more than enough to raise the DO of an entire 5G keg above what is generally considered to be too high.

The krux of the LoDO cold side process is to take advantage of yeast's natural O2 scavenging during active fermentation. For lagers they suggest you transfer into a liquid purged keg, using a closed system, and with remaining fermentation extract (4-6 points).

For an IPA that's a lot harder because you need to introduce dry hops and then rack off the dry hops. So the best solution i've come up with is to add dry hops with ~4 points remaining.... let those soak a few days until you reach FG, then rack to serving keg, then open the lid and add priming sugar, then seal and purge as normal (say 4-5 purge cycles with tank CO2). Let stand at room temp for 2 weeks, then chill, and drink the next day.
Click to expand...

If you want to be anti o2 to the max. Put priming solution in the serving keg first, purge the keg, then closed transfer onto it.
 
I wanted to chime in just to say that I think my batch is showing signs of oxidation. It's definitely getting darker. I bottle.

Has anyone bottled this beer and maintained the bright yellow, juicy color? If so, I'd love to hear any tips for reducing oxidation.

Was thinking about bottling directly from the carboy by using conditioning pellets in each bottle to avoid the bottling bucket transfer.

I don't have any CO2. What's the smallest/cheapest way to buy it? No current plans to have a kegerator.
 
EndOfLine said:
If you want to be anti o2 to the max. Put priming solution in the serving keg first, purge the keg, then closed transfer onto it.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you're right, but how do you know that:

1 - a keg filled with air, then filled with priming solution, then purged

is any better than

2 - a water purged keg, with beer racked into it, then the lid opened, and priming solution added.

My gut tells me #2 would actually be less exposed because the head space is so much less. This is exactly the type of claim that need to be vetted. Does it even matter if you keg condition??
 

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