Quantcast

American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

SteveLupoMax

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
3
It really is. I’d honestly like some folks in this thread to give it a try so we can find out how well it really works.

I’m not saying it makes a better ipa per say but it helps make good decision on hop combos and ratios. For example say you want a beer that’s is citrus forward but firm dank undertones, you could use this concept to make a good decision on a good ration that is based on the hops and their oil content
So I'm looking to blend Motueka and Mosaic. Both have about the same total oil.
I'm looking at 8.5g/L Mosaic to 6.4g/L Motueka (1.3:1).
Thoughts?
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
499
Reaction score
381
So I'm looking to blend Motueka and Mosaic. Both have about the same total oil.
I'm looking at 8.5g/L Mosaic to 6.4g/L Motueka (1.3:1).
Thoughts?
I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,648
Reaction score
5,842
Location
Albany
I understand your theory on it and I’ve heard breweries like Hop Butcher speak about it but I think there are so many other variables that apply. Nelson is a perfect example. It might not be as high in oil content but it’s packed with Thiols, maybe more than almost any hop.

Riwaka is another one that’s only like .8g/l oil content and 4-7% alpha yet paired 50/50 with Citra in my mind it would stand out above Citra.

Sultana (Denali) is another where the total oil is I think second highest to only Galaxy. Yet Citra might still overshadow it at 50/50. Sultana’s oil content might be high but it’s Thiol content isn’t near what Citra is.

There are just so many variables I find it hard to apply any sort of equation to it. Then there’s the whole issue with the actual quality of the hops you have. In my opinion. The one that smells the best is the one you should use the most of (especially on the dry hop).
I’m sure there are many variable and The fact that we aren’t privy to the exact data on our hops either. There’s also the possible that some of the oils may be received Easier or more difficulty by our senses. That being said, this really has worked.

Again i don’t think this is something that make the beer “better” in and of its self but I strongly believe it helps design a recipe to target specific flavor and aromas. It really has worked that last 8 beers.

Give it a try in your next ipa and see if it works. Please let me know whether or not it works.
 

SteveLupoMax

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
3
I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.
I haven't got much experience with Motueka myself. I've heard its not so great on its own and can be quite traditional. I thought I would pair it and weight it towards Mosaic for strong dank murky blueberry and fruit smoothie aroma and hope the Motueka will layer in some lighter notes. Both look to be high in myrcene so ideal for a dryhop addition.
I want the Mosaic to dominate somewhat incase I dislike the Motueka. Its only slightly weighted to Moasic so i hope it pokes its head though.
 

SteveLupoMax

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
3
I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.
Also OtherHalf released Mosaic+ Motueka which I believe was 50/50... So must work!
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,518
Reaction score
1,527
Mosaic and Motueka are very different hops. Mosaic can stand on its own, Motueka really can’t. It’s a great hop to pair but I’m not sure at 50/50, especially the Motueka that I’ve experienced on the homebrew level. It’s predominant characteristic is lime. To me that can tend to brighten the other hop somewhat. Make it more acidic citrus in some way. Motueka can also have a lot of that diesel/machine oil which can add some cool depth and complexity when it’s not overbearing. There’s an old Session podcast with the Cellarmaker guys where they talk about needing 25% more Motueka than comparable other hops in order to get to similar intensity levels... so there’s that as well. Again it always depends on what your’s is like. It can be anywhere from grassy diesel to bright lime and very tropical.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,518
Reaction score
1,527
Also those are the kind of flavours that can be altered quite a lot by yeast.
Not with any yeast that post people are making hazy IPA with. That stuff smells like grass and diesel in the bag it will 100% smell like grass and diesel in the beer. Experienced it many a time. Hotside additions will minimize it for many reasons but any DH it will 100% come through.
 

SteveLupoMax

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
3
Not with any yeast that post people are making hazy IPA with. That stuff smells like grass and diesel in the bag it will 100% smell like grass and diesel in the beer. Experienced it many a time. Hotside additions will minimize it for many reasons but any DH it will 100% come through.
OK good tip. What If I used a yeast known to biotransform?
There's a lot of talk on here about skipping the mid dryhop addition and soft crashing, collecting yeast then dryhoping. Is there still enough yeast in suspension and yeast activity to biotransform at this time?
And do we know what yeasts actively biotransform?
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,518
Reaction score
1,527
OK good tip. What If I used a yeast known to biotransform?
There's a lot of talk on here about skipping the mid dryhop addition and soft crashing, collecting yeast then dryhoping. Is there still enough yeast in suspension and yeast activity to biotransform at this time?
And do we know what yeasts actively biotransform?
There’s plenty of yeasts that poses the ability to “biotransform” some compounds found in hops (and malt). All the compounds that get added on the hotside are essentially being “biotransformed” during fermentation.

You can also add enzymes that can aid in it. However I’m pretty sure there have been some decent studies done on both the enzyme and also with genetically engineered biotransformative yeast strains that didn’t exactly have positive results.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
I have brewed north of 60 batches of NEIPA and can honestly say I’ve never been able to identify any actual aspects of “biotransformation” in any of my finished beers. I’m not saying it doesn’t occur but just that I’ve never been able to see any reason to purposely try and make it happen. Anything you put in your whirlpool is essentially the same thing as adding it at high krausen. In my experience I strongly prefer crashing to get rid of as much yeast as possible before dry hopping. Just my 2 cents. I would say try it both ways and formulate your own opinion..see what you prefer. To me that’s the fun of home brewing.
 

SanPancho

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,355
Reaction score
659
Location
SF
I understand your theory on it and I’ve heard breweries like Hop Butcher speak about it but I think there are so many other variables that apply. Nelson is a perfect example. It might not be as high in oil content but it’s packed with Thiols, maybe more than almost any hop.

Riwaka is another one that’s only like .8g/l oil content and 4-7% alpha yet paired 50/50 with Citra in my mind it would stand out above Citra.

Sultana (Denali) is another where the total oil is I think second highest to only Galaxy. Yet Citra might still overshadow it at 50/50. Sultana’s oil content might be high but it’s Thiol content isn’t near what Citra is.

There are just so many variables I find it hard to apply any sort of equation to it. Then there’s the whole issue with the actual quality of the hops you have. In my opinion. The one that smells the best is the one you should use the most of (especially on the dry hop).
i will second the notion. Oil content doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with flavor/aroma intensity. Sadly.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,648
Reaction score
5,842
Location
Albany
i will second the notion. Oil content doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with flavor/aroma intensity. Sadly.
9/10 times, the higher the oil content, the more potent the hop. Also, people specifically choose to use hops at higher try hoping rates with more myrcene. There is a very strong scientific correlation between total oil content and potency.
 

Clyde McCoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
154
Reaction score
143
9/10 times, the higher the oil content, the more potent the hop.
The only academic research I've seen on the topic found "a negligible role of total oil content (mL/100 g) as an indicator of hoppiness. In fact, there was no correlation between total oil content and overall hop aroma intensity." Vollmer & Shellhammer, 2018.

Screen Shot 2020-08-10 at 11.22.05 PM.png


With that said, this is an under-researched topic so 🤷‍♂️.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,648
Reaction score
5,842
Location
Albany
The only academic research I've seen on the topic found "a negligible role of total oil content (mL/100 g) as an indicator of hoppiness. In fact, there was no correlation between total oil content and overall hop aroma intensity." Vollmer & Shellhammer, 2018.

View attachment 693398

With that said, this is an under-researched topic so 🤷‍♂️.
Based on that I stand corrected on my “strong scientific correlation” comment.

I’d love to see this done with a hop like Citra or Sabro (and such varieties) that are known for their potency and have higher average oil content
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
2,850
Reaction score
2,127
Location
UK
I have brewed north of 60 batches of NEIPA and can honestly say I’ve never been able to identify any actual aspects of “biotransformation” in any of my finished beers. I’m not saying it doesn’t occur but just that I’ve never been able to see any reason to purposely try and make it happen. Anything you put in your whirlpool is essentially the same thing as adding it at high krausen.
You have to distinguish between two things, as "biotransformation" gets applied to the release of bound compounds (increasing the quantity of hoppiness) and to the conversion of compounds from one to another (affecting flavour, or the quality of hoppiness - and usually with a slight loss of quantity as the process is not 100% efficient). I wish people would start talking about eg "biorelease" and "bioconversion" rather than "biotransformation" which is too ambiguous to be useful.

Most of the focus of the testing by yeast labs (eg Lallemand) has been on β-glucosidase releasing compounds bound to the hop as glucosides, but conversion definitely happens as well - just make up a litre of DME to 1.050, add 3g/l Chinook at 5 minutes and 3g/l Chinook in the whirlpool, split it in two and add US-05 to one and T-58 to the other. Same wort, different yeast - and you should get a very different flavour. US-05 will keep the "usual" grapefruit of the Chinook, T-58 will have a more complex, more limey flavour (at maybe 80% of the intensity).

Now it's up to the brewer whether they think it's desirable to make that tradeoff between complexity and intensity, but I think it's no coincidence that the likes of Tree House appear to have used a scoop of T-58 in the yeast blend for Julius, at least for a while. No doubt the 30g/l hop mob will just say that "more hops" is always the answer, but that ignores the contribution of yeast to flavour.


As for the oil thing - I think it does depend on the hop. You'd expect terpenol-heavy hops (ie piney/floral) to show more of a correlation with total oil content as you need more terpenol to give a flavour effect, whereas you need tiny amounts of thiols (tropical-winey) before they have a pronounced effect on the flavour.

So you'd expect there to be more of a correlation between oil content and intensity for "old-school" US hops, and less correlation for the new generation.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
890
Reaction score
177
Location
Europe
You have to distinguish between two things, as "biotransformation" gets applied to the release of bound compounds (increasing the quantity of hoppiness) and to the conversion of compounds from one to another (affecting flavour, or the quality of hoppiness - and usually with a slight loss of quantity as the process is not 100% efficient). I wish people would start talking about eg "biorelease" and "bioconversion" rather than "biotransformation" which is too ambiguous to be useful.

Most of the focus of the testing by yeast labs (eg Lallemand) has been on β-glucosidase releasing compounds bound to the hop as glucosides, but conversion definitely happens as well - just make up a litre of DME to 1.050, add 3g/l Chinook at 5 minutes and 3g/l Chinook in the whirlpool, split it in two and add US-05 to one and T-58 to the other. Same wort, different yeast - and you should get a very different flavour. US-05 will keep the "usual" grapefruit of the Chinook, T-58 will have a more complex, more limey flavour (at maybe 80% of the intensity).

Now it's up to the brewer whether they think it's desirable to make that tradeoff between complexity and intensity, but I think it's no coincidence that the likes of Tree House appear to have used a scoop of T-58 in the yeast blend for Julius, at least for a while. No doubt the 30g/l hop mob will just say that "more hops" is always the answer, but that ignores the contribution of yeast to flavour.


As for the oil thing - I think it does depend on the hop. You'd expect terpenol-heavy hops (ie piney/floral) to show more of a correlation with total oil content as you need more terpenol to give a flavour effect, whereas you need tiny amounts of thiols (tropical-winey) before they have a pronounced effect on the flavour.

So you'd expect there to be more of a correlation between oil content and intensity for "old-school" US hops, and less correlation for the new generation.
I just saw the lallemand verdant livestream. The guy from lallemand spoke of the conversion enzymes possibly being excreted into the wort and staying in suspension even after crashing yeast out, so it doesnt matter if you dry hop during.
This is my experience so far, that the conversion happens with time. Maybe hopping during fermentation speeds it a bit up but on my comparison beer where I did a dryhop during and after fermentation I could only detect a difference when the beer was young. After some time they where identical to my pallet.
 

SanPancho

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,355
Reaction score
659
Location
SF
9/10 times, the higher the oil content, the more potent the hop. Also, people specifically choose to use hops at higher try hoping rates with more myrcene. There is a very strong scientific correlation between total oil content and potency.
Terpenes are fairly volatile, easy to lose from heat in kettle, co2 blowoff, etc. That’s why as standalone products they’re only advised for post ferment addition. We don’t really know yet, but as alluded to earlier it could be something like thiols that actually drive the flavor impact/intensity.
 

brewbama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,032
I just saw the lallemand verdant livestream. The guy from lallemand spoke of the conversion enzymes possibly being excreted into the wort and staying in suspension even after crashing yeast out, so it doesnt matter if you dry hop during.
This is my experience so far, that the conversion happens with time. Maybe hopping during fermentation speeds it a bit up but on my comparison beer where I did a dryhop during and after fermentation I could only detect a difference when the beer was young. After some time they where identical to my pallet.
I saw the same product kickoff.

I think the advantage to dry hopping in active fermentation is the ability for yeast to consume any potential O2 pickup during the hop charge. Dry hopping in a keg is fairly difficult to ensure a low O2 pickup in my experience.

Of course, the disadvantage is CO2 scrubbing from active fermentation.
 

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
129
Reaction score
50
Location
Chicago, IL
I saw some interesting biotransformation data in Yakima Chief Hops' Dry Hopping webinar. They did a side by side experiment dry hopping during Active Fermentation or Post-Fermentation. Final Quantities of Linalool, Geraniol, Methyl Geranate were all higher in the Post-fermentation beer. I'm not sure what the 3MH number means, perhaps someone could help decipher this?

Hop Timing.PNG

Full webinar here: Webinars | Yakima Chief Hops
I believe it's one of the "Improved Dry Hopping Techniques" webinars.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,648
Reaction score
5,842
Location
Albany
First commercial beer I’ve seen advertised with LUPOMAX. Can’t say I get any more intense Citra notes but there is for sure a very precise Citra character. Nelson rounds it out very well
381177D3-AB94-4057-A977-0C15A971D169.jpeg
 

aaronm13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
159
Reaction score
53
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Have some of that Verdant Lalbrew yeast on the way. Not used to using dry yeast so what would be a suitable pitch rate? I usually under pitch London Fog etc by around 30% so how would this translate to dry yeast for example on a 1.080 DIPA with 22L/6G into the fermenter? It says pitching rate of .5g-1g per liter on the package which is a bit vauge
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
1D8A68C1-001D-40E9-8F6A-2AFFCC02D1D4.jpeg
Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterday. 8 oz Nelson, 5 oz strata, 3 oz Citra. This is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. It’s a simple grain bill of 14 pounds 2-row and a half pound of c-10. I also pushed the chloride higher than I ever have and kept the sulfate lower than I ever have. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavor but I’m excited to see how it matures. I’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it. I also used an extremely clean yeast and am a big fan of it as well.
 

wepeeler

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
644
Reaction score
711
Location
CT
View attachment 693471Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterday. 8 oz Nelson, 5 oz strata, 3 oz Citra. This is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. It’s a simple grain bill of 14 pounds 2-row and a half pound of c-10. I also pushed the chloride higher than I ever have and kept the sulfate lower than I ever have. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavor but I’m excited to see how it matures. I’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it. I also used an extremely clean yeast and am a big fan of it as well.
It would help everyone out more if you were more specific about your process (ie hop schedule + water profile). 5 Gallon batch? RO/distilled water built up? Boil hops vs dry hops? Yeast? Fermentation temp?
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
It would help everyone out more if you were more specific about your process (ie hop schedule + water profile). 5 Gallon batch? RO/distilled water built up? Boil hops vs dry hops? Yeast? Fermentation temp?
Sorry, many of these details were listed some posts back. It’s such a long thread and unless you’re constantly reading it it’s easy to miss things. I didn’t want to just keep repeating things.

5 gallon batch
14 pounds 2-row, 8 oz c-10
Mash at 156

I build my water from tap but have a ward labs report so know exactly what’s in it.
For this beer: 93 ca, 230 cl, 4 sulfate, 60 nacl, 4 mag

1oz Nelson 1oz strata at 10
2oz Nelson, 2oz strata at 170 wp
2oz Nelson, 2oz strata dry hop at 55 (after crashing for 2 days down to 42)
3 oz Nelson, 2oz Citra Lupomax dry hop 24 hours after DH1 at 60 raising up to 65.

Crashed for 24 hours and transferred to keg.

Yeast was omega Lutra. Fermented at 85. I pitched the whole pack and added twice the recommended amount of wyeast nutrient.

OG 1.073 FG 1.016
 
Last edited:

stickyfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
2,119
Reaction score
527
Location
Hudson Valley
Dude, that glass. No

View attachment 693471Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterday. 8 oz Nelson, 5 oz strata, 3 oz Citra. This is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. It’s a simple grain bill of 14 pounds 2-row and a half pound of c-10. I also pushed the chloride higher than I ever have and kept the sulfate lower than I ever have. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavor but I’m excited to see how it matures. I’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it. I also used an extremely clean yeast and am a big fan of it as well.
 

wepeeler

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
644
Reaction score
711
Location
CT
Sorry, many of these details were listed some posts back. It’s such a long thread and unless you’re constantly reading it it’s easy to miss things. I didn’t want to just keep repeating things.

5 gallon batch
14 pounds 2-row, 8 oz c-10
Mash at 156

I build my water from tap but have a ward labs report so know exactly what’s in it.
For this beer: 93 ca, 230 cl, 4 sulfate, 60 nacl, 4 mag

1oz Nelson 1oz strata at 10
2oz Nelson, 2oz strata at 170 wp
2oz Nelson, 2oz strata dry hop at 55 (after crashing for 2 days down to 42)
3 oz Nelson, 2oz Citra Lupomax dry hop 24 hours after DH1 at 60 raising up to 65.

Crashed for 24 hours and transferred to keg.

Yeast was omega Lutra. Fermented at 85. I pitched the whole pack and added twice the recommended amount of wyeast nutrient.

OG 1.073 FG 1.016
Awesome. Thanks man. I looked back, but I must not have looked back far enough. Lots of repeated info in this thread, so what's one more post, if it's as informational as this, you know? I checked out that yeast. Seems to be a pseudo-lager yeast. Interesting. I'm guessing it lets the hops do their thing, as opposed to all the neipa yeasts that create fruity esters. Interested to see how it conditions. High flocculation. I'll be using Hornindal for the first time in a week or so.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
Dude, that glass. No
Why’s that? Too cool for a Teku?

This was a triple crossing x hop culture glass from summer 2018. I bet you don’t have one of these bad boys. Hahaha

 
Last edited:

Fergal

Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
28
Reaction score
17
Location
Melbourne
View attachment 693471Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterday. 8 oz Nelson, 5 oz strata, 3 oz Citra. This is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. It’s a simple grain bill of 14 pounds 2-row and a half pound of c-10. I also pushed the chloride higher than I ever have and kept the sulfate lower than I ever have. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavor but I’m excited to see how it matures. I’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it. I also used an extremely clean yeast and am a big fan of it as well.
Any thoughts on the what the water profile contributed? I've been tempted to do something similar to the Verdant profile posted a while back where the sulfate was base numbers and the chloride somewhere in the 200s from memory. That hop combo sounds amazing.
 

SanPancho

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,355
Reaction score
659
Location
SF
View attachment 693471Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterThis is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavorI’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it.
I would point out here that this advice has been given before, most notably by @couchsending regarding not following the dogmas regarding how one is “supposed“ to build a hazy recipe. My one attempt got screwed by a leaky gas valve. Nice to see validation of the advice
I saw some interesting biotransformation data in Yakima Chief Hops' Dry Hopping webinar. They did a side by side experiment dry hopping during Active Fermentation or Post-Fermentation. Final Quantities of Linalool, Geraniol, Methyl Geranate were all higher in the Post-fermentation beer. I'm not sure what the 3MH number means, perhaps someone could help decipher this?

View attachment 693422
Full webinar here: Webinars | Yakima Chief Hops
I believe it's one of the "Improved Dry Hopping Techniques" webinars.
3mh is bound thiol that needs to be boiled where it becomes passion fruit/ citrus if I recall.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
890
Reaction score
177
Location
Europe
View attachment 693471Not the best picture but I kegged and carbed this yesterday. 8 oz Nelson, 5 oz strata, 3 oz Citra. This is the first hoppy NEIPA I’ve ever done with no oats and or wheat. It’s a simple grain bill of 14 pounds 2-row and a half pound of c-10. I also pushed the chloride higher than I ever have and kept the sulfate lower than I ever have. There’s virtually zero hopburn, possibly from the simple grain bill, and it’s very smooth. Nelson is the dominant aroma and flavor but I’m excited to see how it matures. I’d highly recommend trying a similar grain bill if you’re like me and just always use oats and or wheat because that’s how you’re “supposed” to do it. I also used an extremely clean yeast and am a big fan of it as well.
Looks nice man, the glass too ;)
Id be interested to hear how the haze stability develops of this one. If u dont drink it too fast that is.
Cheers
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
Any thoughts on the what the water profile contributed? I've been tempted to do something similar to the Verdant profile posted a while back where the sulfate was base numbers and the chloride somewhere in the 200s from memory. That hop combo sounds amazing.
It’s hard to say to be honest. What I will say is that it’s definitely not chalky or harsh in any way, which is what I’ve seen some people report from high chloride levels. The low sulfate is interesting as I can’t really tell much of a difference from the typical 80-120 that I’m usually around.[/QUOTE]
 

VirginiaHops1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
916
Reaction score
530
Location
Vienna, Va
You clearly can get haze without much wheat/oats. Homebrewers have been trying to get rid of haze and clear their beers for decades and they weren't even doing huge dry hops. The pilsner I recently made is currently somewhat hazy since I made no effort to fine it. I play around with the wheat/oats to see what they can bring to the table in terms of mouthfeel and aiding hop saturated flavor, although I am also experimenting with various grain bills.
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
350
Reaction score
591
Location
New Jersey
You clearly can get haze without much wheat/oats. Homebrewers have been trying to get rid of haze and clear their beers for decades and they weren't even doing huge dry hops. The pilsner I recently made is currently somewhat hazy since I made no effort to fine it. I play around with the wheat/oats to see what they can bring to the table in terms of mouthfeel and aiding hop saturated flavor, although I am also experimenting with various grain bills.
I agree with you 100%. I absolutely plan to continue using oats and wheat in the future. I also dont care at all about what level of haze is achieved. I care about the quality of the beer, the drinkability and the flavor and aroma.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
890
Reaction score
177
Location
Europe
I agree with you 100%. I absolutely plan to continue using oats and wheat in the future. I also dont care at all about what level of haze is achieved. I care about the quality of the beer, the drinkability and the flavor and aroma.
Haze locks in more hop oils. You can def tell a difference when it drops out imho
 
Top