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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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SanPancho

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True, but that’s not necessarily the same thing as more intense hop flavor. It’s not a perfect analogy but the IPL used to make was nothing but hopflavor. About an oz per gal. Hazy takes 2-3 x the hops that beer did, but is it 2-3x “hoppier”? No. But you’ve got other stuff going on, which is why I say not a great analogy. It wasn’t your typical lager/Pilsner crystal clear, but it wasn’t hazy or murky at all either.

hazy is so different from other styles that it sort of has its own science. Definitely some counterintuitive aspects to it.
@SanPancho Yes, @couchsending has repeatedly stated that using no oats and or wheat is definitely worth experimenting with. His posts were the main reason I tried this.
So if you only get one sentence, what’s the main diff you noticed ?
 

HopsAreGood

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True, but that’s not necessarily the same thing as more intense hop flavor. It’s not a perfect analogy but the IPL used to make was nothing but hopflavor. About an oz per gal. Hazy takes 2-3 x the hops that beer did, but is it 2-3x “hoppier”? No. But you’ve got other stuff going on, which is why I say not a great analogy. It wasn’t your typical lager/Pilsner crystal clear, but it wasn’t hazy or murky at all either.

hazy is so different from other styles that it sort of has its own science. Definitely some counterintuitive aspects to it.

So if you only get one sentence, what’s the main diff you noticed ?
The one main difference is that it seems ready to drink much faster. No hop burn, no rough edges, etc..
 

beervoid

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True, but that’s not necessarily the same thing as more intense hop flavor. It’s not a perfect analogy but the IPL used to make was nothing but hopflavor. About an oz per gal. Hazy takes 2-3 x the hops that beer did, but is it 2-3x “hoppier”? No. But you’ve got other stuff going on, which is why I say not a great analogy. It wasn’t your typical lager/Pilsner crystal clear, but it wasn’t hazy or murky at all either.

hazy is so different from other styles that it sort of has its own science. Definitely some counterintuitive aspects to it.

So if you only get one sentence, what’s the main diff you noticed ?
I would define it as following. As the haze drops out the juicy character drops out and what is left is a mediocre neipa that wants to be a westcoast ipa but without balls cause there is no bitterness to make it interesting.
 

SanPancho

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I would define it as following. As the haze drops out the juicy character drops out and what is left is a mediocre neipa that wants to be a westcoast ipa but without balls cause there is no bitterness to make it interesting.
"juiciness" from haze as you call it isnt required for packing a beer with alot of hop flavor. that was the distinction i was making. might have been a bit irrelevant to the overall discussoin. but i think its an important thing to consider in light of a neipa with no oats/wheat displaying typical neipa profile. and hence my question as to whether his example of the no oats/wheat is gonna hang around long enough to be able to tell if it drops clear. its always interesting to see the dogmas be shown to be false, or at least shown to be a misunderstanding of what is happening. other than long term sours, hazy seems to be an area where there are so many things interplaying off each other that it can be hard to single out individual variables.
 

Noob_Brewer

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I’m sure there are many variable and The fact that we aren’t privy to the exact data on our hops either. There’s also the possible that some of the oils may be received Easier or more difficulty by our senses. That being said, this really has worked.

Again i don’t think this is something that make the beer “better” in and of its self but I strongly believe it helps design a recipe to target specific flavor and aromas. It really has worked that last 8 beers.

Give it a try in your next ipa and see if it works. Please let me know whether or not it works.
OK so Ive seen the comments for and against using total oil content as a way to decide hop ratios in order to get a flavor/aroma profile someone is shooting for. From the peeps, @Dgallo @couchsending @SanPancho, that have been talking about this, I will just say that I am FAR more inexperienced than all of ya, but I thought Id chime in anyway on my thoughts from the perspective of a new brewer. My classification of "new" is well justified as I had my first brew day in mid-january of this year, but I have at least been hard at work/fun at learning as much as I can and brewing lots (by my standards) having just kegged my 24th batch (5gals) this past week and ~16 of them have been these NEIPA styles.

So when I started brewing I was copycatting reciepes just to get my processes down but quickly got curious to start designing my own and naively took the strategy of doing 1:1:1 type ratios of the hops chosen for said beer. The beers were good overall. However, when I took my first swing at the ever popular citral-nelson-galaxy hop combo I used nearly a 1:1:1 ratio again. it was more like 1:1:0.9 with having a "little" less galaxy because my previous experience I knew it was potent. Nevertheless I was very disappointed because I got all galaxy with citrus and none of the white wine from nelson that I had previously gotten from nelson on a previous brew. This was also a good example of my own experience telling me something was off. Don't get me wrong, the beer was still damn good because who doesn't like galaxy? :) So I started more looking at all the different oils of every hop and that was daunting especially after reading Jannish's book too lol. So I thought Id start simplifying and look at total oil content as a surrogate of "potency" to better balance the hop flavor/aroma at the design stage so that I could get the profile I was expecting/wanting. I also picked @Dgallo brain in his TIPA thread about how he chose his hop ratios and after that discussion, decided to give Citra/Nelson/Galaxy another try. Despite galaxy being MUCH higher in oils than nelson, I went with a 1.75 (nelson): 1 (galaxy) : 1.25 (citra) ratio. On this second try, BOOM! white wine! the nelson came through and still had all the great flavors and aromas from galaxy and citra as well. I was very pleased.

So ever since, I too have been using this concept at the design stage of my beers. I feel that it is VERY useful especially for inexperienced brewers who have little experience to lean on when designing beers and the strategy will definitely get you "in the ball park" of what you want/expect from the profile.

I completely understand there are TONs of other variables at play and Im not naive enough to think that going by total oils alone is the "golden ticket", but again, its a nice simplified way to get you in the ball-park and as experienced is gained, I will tweak them even more.

The only issue with using total oil content from my point of view is the VAST range of reported specs on total oils leaving the home brewer to decide on an "average" total oil content. For example, YVH lists 2020 galaxy as 2.1ml/100g, the 2019 galaxy was 1.8-3.0ml/100g, but BeerCo lists galaxy as 3.0-5.0ml/100g, and BSG has galaxy at 2.4-4.0ml/100g. So this is a total range of ~2.0-5.0 which is HUGE. So deciding on an expected total oil content can be difficult depending on the source.

Nevertheless, I will continue to read new research on contributions to hop flavor and aroma and despite research suggesting that theres just too many other variables that contribute, I don't think thats a reason to discount using total oil content as a viable metric at the beer design stage all together. It has worked for me as a noob in that at least the flavor profile is close to what I was expecting/wanting from the design to finished product. It is easy to do as well which is a plus.

Sorry for long post, but thats my two cents (or how much you think its worth anyways). :) Cheers!
 

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OK so Ive seen the comments for and against using total oil content as a way to decide hop ratios in order to get a flavor/aroma profile someone is shooting for. From the peeps, @Dgallo @couchsending @SanPancho, that have been talking about this, I will just say that I am FAR more inexperienced than all of ya, but I thought Id chime in anyway on my thoughts from the perspective of a new brewer. My classification of "new" is well justified as I had my first brew day in mid-january of this year, but I have at least been hard at work/fun at learning as much as I can and brewing lots (by my standards) having just kegged my 24th batch (5gals) this past week and ~16 of them have been these NEIPA styles.

So when I started brewing I was copycatting reciepes just to get my processes down but quickly got curious to start designing my own and naively took the strategy of doing 1:1:1 type ratios of the hops chosen for said beer. The beers were good overall. However, when I took my first swing at the ever popular citral-nelson-galaxy hop combo I used nearly a 1:1:1 ratio again. it was more like 1:1:0.9 with having a "little" less galaxy because my previous experience I knew it was potent. Nevertheless I was very disappointed because I got all galaxy with citrus and none of the white wine from nelson that I had previously gotten from nelson on a previous brew. This was also a good example of my own experience telling me something was off. Don't get me wrong, the beer was still damn good because who doesn't like galaxy? :) So I started more looking at all the different oils of every hop and that was daunting especially after reading Jannish's book too lol. So I thought Id start simplifying and look at total oil content as a surrogate of "potency" to better balance the hop flavor/aroma at the design stage so that I could get the profile I was expecting/wanting. I also picked @Dgallo brain in his TIPA thread about how he chose his hop ratios and after that discussion, decided to give Citra/Nelson/Galaxy another try. Despite galaxy being MUCH higher in oils than nelson, I went with a 1.75 (nelson): 1 (galaxy) : 1.25 (citra) ratio. On this second try, BOOM! white wine! the nelson came through and still had all the great flavors and aromas from galaxy and citra as well. I was very pleased.

So ever since, I too have been using this concept at the design stage of my beers. I feel that it is VERY useful especially for inexperienced brewers who have little experience to lean on when designing beers and the strategy will definitely get you "in the ball park" of what you want/expect from the profile.

I completely understand there are TONs of other variables at play and Im not naive enough to think that going by total oils alone is the "golden ticket", but again, its a nice simplified way to get you in the ball-park and as experienced is gained, I will tweak them even more.

The only issue with using total oil content from my point of view is the VAST range of reported specs on total oils leaving the home brewer to decide on an "average" total oil content. For example, YVH lists 2020 galaxy as 2.1ml/100g, the 2019 galaxy was 1.8-3.0ml/100g, but BeerCo lists galaxy as 3.0-5.0ml/100g, and BSG has galaxy at 2.4-4.0ml/100g. So this is a total range of ~2.0-5.0 which is HUGE. So deciding on an expected total oil content can be difficult depending on the source.

Nevertheless, I will continue to read new research on contributions to hop flavor and aroma and despite research suggesting that theres just too many other variables that contribute, I don't think thats a reason to discount using total oil content as a viable metric at the beer design stage all together. It has worked for me as a noob in that at least the flavor profile is close to what I was expecting/wanting from the design to finished product. It is easy to do as well which is a plus.

Sorry for long post, but thats my two cents (or how much you think its worth anyways). :) Cheers!
Dont forget to rub your pellets and develop your senses to get an idea about the potency. Our nose probably the best instrument we have to analyse hop quality.
 

Frieds

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Dont forget to rub your pellets and develop your senses to get an idea about the potency. Our nose probably the best instrument we have to analyse hop quality.
100%. I just brewed last night and 4:1 Comet to Citra in the kettle and all I could smell was the Citra.
 

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Last NEIPA I did was high flaked grain and double dry hop'd (during and post fermentation additions) and looking to change to a more malted wheat and single dry hop to see the difference in what I prefer. With that, I'd also like to experiment with dry hopping at cooler temps. Any suggestions on dry hopping temperature and overall fermentation schedule? I don't have the ability to dump trub as I'm using a SS brewbucket so would I just wait until I hit FG to drop to a cooler DH'ing temp? Cheers all!
 
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AnttiLeh

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Just made second patch with the original version. First patch year ago was "too good for selfmade" said by my friends, that was a bottled.
Now i have keg and tap, so lets hope this one will be even better.

Tip for everyone: when transfering from boiling champer to fermentation chamber, remember to close ferment tap. 3 liters down the drain 😭
 

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I thought this would be interesting to people here. This is my first time keg hopping. Long story short, this is a smash with Thrall Family Pale malt and only 1.5oz of Sabro throughout the boil (.5oz at 60, .5 at 20 and .5 at flameout). It wasn’t too exciting of a beer so I decided to keg hop with 1.5oz of Sabro to the remaining 3.5 gallons. The difference in appearance post 6 hours dry hop surprised me. US-05 for the yeast.


 

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Version 3 of my kveik hazy went in last night.
i wanted to use kveik Stranda from Whitelabs, but LHBS didn't have it.

so went Opshaug again.
fermentation at 28.5 deg C

Been playing with boil hops with these.
V1 - all whirlpool hops
whirlpool - 100g of centennial, 50g mandarina 20g chinook
biotrans - 50g centennial
dryhop - 50g loral 50g centennial 50g mandarina (and something else i can't remember)

Notes: Major hop losses, 20l into fermenter, and 15-16l into keg. huge citrus, and voss took too long to settle down.

V2 - add in some late boil hops
15g @ 15min - Columbus
whirlpool - 100g mosaic 25g galaxy
biotrans - 50g mosaic
dryhop 100g citra 50g galaxy

Notes: Great beer, tropical and fruity, good hazy IPA, but lack a little bitterness and punch. I'm putting it down to the type of hops used currently, but interested to find out what can happen when more bitterness is added.

V3 - extra additional late boil hops, lower whirlpool addition again
25g @ 15min - columbus
25g @ 5min - columbus
100g @ whirlpool - Mosaic
Biotrans - 50g motueka
dryhop - 50g mosaic & 100g motueka

my idea is to see what i can get out of the boil hop and make it juicy without overloading the whirlpool additions.

V4 plan is for the following:
1. follow either V2 or V3 based on taste & bitterness
2. biotrans hops variation aim to split the 50g into 2 additions, 1 at pitch day, the other 36 hours later
3. 150g of chosen hop for dryhop


Grain bill has remained the same throughout -
5kg pilsner malt
1kg flaked oats
1kg wheat
250g acidulated for pH

Happy to post up results in about 10 days
Kveik takes me 10 days grain to glass
 

secretlevel

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I thought this would be interesting to people here. This is my first time keg hopping. Long story short, this is a smash with Thrall Family Pale malt and only 1.5oz of Sabro throughout the boil (.5oz at 60, .5 at 20 and .5 at flameout). It wasn’t too exciting of a beer so I decided to keg hop with 1.5oz of Sabro to the remaining 3.5 gallons. The difference in appearance post 6 hours dry hop surprised me. US-05 for the yeast.


This is a great study of what causes a good degree of haze. Regardless of oat or wheat content, dry hopping mid-fermentation doesn't always guarantee that milky haze. I used to solely dry hop mid-fermentation and both flavors as well as the haze were never quite there until I waited for the yeast to drop out.

I'm not sure if there's a study that can back this up but it seems that hop oils bind with yeast cells and drop out during the cold crash/conditioning. This seems to lead to much of the flavor and the haze to drop into the trub. Thus, haze is gone and so is the majority of hop flavor.
 

SanPancho

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This is a great study of what causes a good degree of haze. Regardless of oat or wheat content, dry hopping mid-fermentation doesn't always guarantee that milky haze. I used to solely dry hop mid-fermentation and both flavors as well as the haze were never quite there until I waited for the yeast to drop out.

I'm not sure if there's a study that can back this up but it seems that hop oils bind with yeast cells and drop out during the cold crash/conditioning. This seems to lead to much of the flavor and the haze to drop into the trub. Thus, haze is gone and so is the majority of hop flavor.
dont need a study to tell you this is true. just try making a hoppy lager. i had a conversation years back with vinny from RR and a brewer from stone (cant recall his name). crying about how hard i was finding it to get the real hoppy lagers, we decided you needed to do an "initial crash" for the brightest hop flavor for exactly this reason.

you can literally see the difference in the sedimented yeast coloring. its not cream vs green exactly, but you can defintiely tell the difference if you dryhop with yeast still floating freely. its darker and kind of dirty looking vs the crashed out yeast which is your whitish/creamy color. should be able to see it at bottom of the fermenter (or keg).
 

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Been stuck on 1318 and a few Imperial Yeast strains for neipas but never used Kviek. Got a few slivers of frozen Hornindal from a dude in my brew club. Gonna make a starter (should I?) and do 2 5 gallon batches of my Citra/Mosiac neipa. One with all Golden Promise as the base malt and one with all Rahr 2 row as the base, keeping everything else the same. I usually do a mix of both, but I want to see what the grains bring to the table solo. Planning to drop out yeast before dry hopping. Probably just one monster DH. Thoughts?
 

flintoid

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Been stuck on 1318 and a few Imperial Yeast strains for neipas but never used Kviek. Got a few slivers of frozen Hornindal from a dude in my brew club. Gonna make a starter (should I?) and do 2 5 gallon batches of my Citra/Mosiac neipa. One with all Golden Promise as the base malt and one with all Rahr 2 row as the base, keeping everything else the same. I usually do a mix of both, but I want to see what the grains bring to the table solo. Planning to drop out yeast before dry hopping. Probably just one monster DH. Thoughts?
I would do a starter if you want the hops and grain to shine- golden promise brings a sweetness to the whole thing and if you're using aplomb hops that you want to bring out- a starter is a must.

If you stress Kviek yeasts, they turn into ester bombs. I underpitch Kveiks when I'm using leftover hops, etc. But when I want a balanced brew (malt, hops, yeast esters) pitching a high cell count is a must.
 

Genuine

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This is a great study of what causes a good degree of haze. Regardless of oat or wheat content, dry hopping mid-fermentation doesn't always guarantee that milky haze. I used to solely dry hop mid-fermentation and both flavors as well as the haze were never quite there until I waited for the yeast to drop out.

I'm not sure if there's a study that can back this up but it seems that hop oils bind with yeast cells and drop out during the cold crash/conditioning. This seems to lead to much of the flavor and the haze to drop into the trub. Thus, haze is gone and so is the majority of hop flavor.
I was gonna say, from my experiences of tasting the first pint (usually there's a lot of yeast sediment on the first pour for my NEIPA's) and the flavor/aroma is greatly subdued till that all is poured from the keg...then it gets significantly better. I think for my next batch I'll hop after fermentation and reserve an oz or two for the keg and see how that plays out.
 

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This is a great study of what causes a good degree of haze. Regardless of oat or wheat content, dry hopping mid-fermentation doesn't always guarantee that milky haze. I used to solely dry hop mid-fermentation and both flavors as well as the haze were never quite there until I waited for the yeast to drop out.

I'm not sure if there's a study that can back this up but it seems that hop oils bind with yeast cells and drop out during the cold crash/conditioning. This seems to lead to much of the flavor and the haze to drop into the trub. Thus, haze is gone and so is the majority of hop flavor.
***
 
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AnttiLeh

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One questiion, do you guys drop temperature when you dryhop Neipa?

I usually drop temperature around 14 celsius with IPAs when ferment is done and its ready to dryhop.
 

Beerdrinker85

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One questiion, do you guys drop temperature when you dryhop Neipa?

I usually drop temperature around 14 celsius with IPAs when ferment is done and its ready to dryhop.
I ferment at 66-68F, raise to 72 until the end of fermentation then soft crash to 56-58, First dry hop that will be in for 5 days, stay at 58F, second dryhop 2 days after. Total contact time 5 days max. Cold Crash at 45 for 24h then keg it. I don't know if it's doing anything special (dry hopping at 58) but it's working great for me so I stick with this process.
 

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I would do a starter if you want the hops and grain to shine- golden promise brings a sweetness to the whole thing and if you're using aplomb hops that you want to bring out- a starter is a must.

If you stress Kviek yeasts, they turn into ester bombs. I underpitch Kveiks when I'm using leftover hops, etc. But when I want a balanced brew (malt, hops, yeast esters) pitching a high cell count is a must.
I've heard Kviek strains are notoriously great under stress. That's kind of why I asked about the starter. I've also read it's very difficult to even stress this yeast, but I only know what I've read and been told. Never used it before. Personally, I make a starter for every beer, so I feel inclined to do so for this batch too...
 

BongoYodeler

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I've heard Kviek strains are notoriously great under stress. That's kind of why I asked about the starter. I've also read it's very difficult to even stress this yeast, but I only know what I've read and been told. Never used it before. Personally, I make a starter for every beer, so I feel inclined to do so for this batch too...
I brewed this recipe with Omega Kveik Voss that I used to make a two-step starter. Decanted most of the liquid and poured the rest into four 8oz mason jars. For this batch I took one of the jars and poured off half of that liquid and shook up the yeast into a slurry. Pitched a single tablespoon into 6.5 gallons of wort. It chewed through it in under 72 hours. 1.063 to 1.014

hazy.jpg
 

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Thanks!

Citra and Mosaic T-90. It was basically the original base recipe in this thread but scaled down to a 2.2 gallon batch size.

I did a small Columbus bittering hop then 1oz each of Citra and Mosaic in a 20-minute WP once it reached 180F.

Hit stable FG after about 9 days with LAIII at 66F, crashed to 50F over 12 hours and then left it there another 24. Then close transferred to the DH keg with 3oz of each hop (6oz total) and let it sit at 55F for 48 hours before kegging.

Excited to see how it holds up now!

I lost quite a bit of beer from the DH (ended up with 1.6 gallons instead of 2. Would a hard crash post DH help with that? Or do I just accept the absorption rate as a built-in cost?
Made this exact same recipe but swapped all non-bittering hops out for the 2020 YVH galaxy crop. Also, dropped the whirlpool and dry hop amounts to 2/3 of the previous recipe, based on what was recommended by some of the gurus in this thread.

It's delicious and the aroma is on par with my favorite Galaxy focused beers (Other Half Space Diamonds and Hill Farmstead Double Galaxy).

Something interesting to me is that it's waaaay murkier than my last batch (I'm about 4 full 12oz pours in now). Anybody else have this experience with Galaxy producing a murkier end product?

Thanks again for all of the tips, y'all!
IMG-20200822-WA0000.jpeg
 
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mccabedoug

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Pretty interesting article here by Janish that also includes a recipe.
It was an interesting article and a good read. I think there is something slightly ‘off’ with the recipe‘s process though. Not sure if all those transfers are accurately listed. But it was certainly a good article.
 

wepeeler

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I brewed this recipe with Omega Kveik Voss that I used to make a two-step starter. Decanted most of the liquid and poured the rest into four 8oz mason jars. For this batch I took one of the jars and poured off half of that liquid and shook up the yeast into a slurry. Pitched a single tablespoon into 6.5 gallons of wort. It chewed through it in under 72 hours. 1.063 to 1.014

View attachment 695012
Very interesting. This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. A guy in my brew club did the same thing ie pitched a tablespoon after making a starter. He said it was insane how fast it worked. Plus he had a ton leftover to use! Looks great man 👍🍻
 

Dgallo

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Going to be trying something slightly different this time. I ferment in fermonster FV so I am unable to dump the yeast. I will typically Soft or soft crash the yeast out of suspension after fermentation and ddh at about 60 for 2-3 days. I’ve noticed that I still get some hop creep.

because if this and the fact that I have two fermonsters with modified closed transfer lids
(Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!)
I decided to piggy back the second fermonster before the keg during fermentation to purge both. The second fermonster is preloaded with the a single dryhop.

After ferm completes I’ll do a soft crash at 50 for 48 hrs and then rack to the second fermonster and let the temp rise to 58-60*f. Im doing this with a tried a true recipe of mine so I’m interested to see if this will add any additional flavor or aroma to the finished beer.
 
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VirginiaHops1

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Going to be trying something slightly different this time. I ferment in fermonster FV so I am unable to dump the yeast. I will typically Soft or soft crash the yeast out of suspension after fermentation and ddh at about 60 for 2-3 days. I’ve noticed that I still get some hop creep.

because if this and the fact that I have two fermonsters with modified closed transfer lids
(Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!)
I decided to piggy back the second fermonster before the keg during fermentation to purge both. The second fermonster is preloaded with the a single dryhop.

After ferm completes I’ll do a soft crash at 50 for 48 hrs and then rack to the second fermonster and let the temp rise to 58-60*f. Im doing this with a tried a true recipe of mine so I’m interested to see if this will add any additional flavor or aroma to the finished beer.
This is my MO(although fermenting in kegs). I guess it helps with hop creep but my main motivation is limiting DO by not having to break the seal on the fermenter to dry hop.
 

Dgallo

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This is my MO(although fermenting in kegs). I guess it helps with hop creep but my main motivation is limiting DO by not having to break the seal on the fermenter to dry hop.
I’ve seen you and a couple other post about using kegs and I just thought, well I got two fermonsters why not give it a shot and I can get a full serving keg in the end.

For my typical process, I’m personally not overly concerned with opening the lid for dryhoping since I’m running co2 through the liquid post at that point. I’m sure some gets in but with the quick dryhop time, then going right to cold storage.. I haven’t experienced any notable oxidation
 

anteater8

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Made this exact same recipe but swapped all non-bittering hops out for the 2020 YVH galaxy crop. Also, dropped the whirlpool and dry hop amounts to 2/3 of the previous recipe, based on what was recommended by some of the gurus in this thread.

It's delicious and the aroma is on par with my favorite Galaxy focused beers (Other Half Space Diamonds and Hill Farmstead Double Galaxy).

Something interesting to me is that it's waaaay murkier than my last batch (I'm about 4 full 12oz pours in now). Anybody else have this experience with Galaxy producing a murkier end product?

Thanks again for all of the tips, y'all!View attachment 695113
Yep, many have had the same experience. I actually going to start brewing my NEIPA's a little different when using Galaxy (or Idaho 7 or Vic Secret) from now on. I'll lower my protein with less flaked oats and wheat, use whirfloc in the boil and gelatin in the keg. I'm mainly curious to see if it produces a beer that's ready to drink sooner, but the difference in appearance would be interesting as well.
 

VirginiaHops1

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I’ve seen you and a couple other post about using kegs and I just thought, well I got two fermonsters why not give it a shot and I can get a full serving keg in the end.

For my typical process, I’m personally not overly concerned with opening the lid for dryhoping since I’m running co2 through the liquid post at that point. I’m sure some gets in but with the quick dryhop time, then going right to cold storage.. I haven’t experienced any notable oxidation
I hear you. I used to always blow CO2 while opening the lid too. I actually have a hazy IPA batch now that I'll be doing that with since I didn't have a 2nd keg ready to use during fermentation. O2 definitely gets in though. I think the only way to know if there's notable oxidation would be doing identical recipes with the different processes. Since early stages of oxidation doesn't result in creation of off-flavors, but rather diminishing hop flavors(how would you know if they're diminished or not?). Still you're probably right that for us homebrewers who drink our beer quickly and don't have to worry about distro there probably isn't huge issues doing it that way.
 

ChiknNutz

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I just brewed a ~5g batch yesterday and plan to dry-hop with 6 oz. of pellet hops total (3 Citra+2 Mosaic+1 Galaxy). I also did a whirlpool/hopstand with the same amounts. I get that the majority suggests to do these loose, not in a bag, right? This is my first go of dry-hopping and I know the concern with O2 exposure and such. To be clear, you simply drop in the hops and away you go? Is there no real concern for sanitizing them (don't know how you would anyway)?
 

troglodytes

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Before I head into my next attempt I wanted to check in here on whirlpool practices. I've taste issues when really getting a whirlpool going with my NEIPAs. I'm generally at around 5.2 pH post boil and do about 5 oz in WP. I don't have any tools to facilitate a WP and usually just get it going with a stainless spoon at 180F. Should I not actually be stirring/aerating at the temp with those hops and just let the sit and get their contact time at that temp? I know the homebrew community has been back and forth on the legitimacy of HSA aeration at a homebrew level.
 

Dgallo

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Before I head into my next attempt I wanted to check in here on whirlpool practices. I've taste issues when really getting a whirlpool going with my NEIPAs. I'm generally at around 5.2 pH post boil and do about 5 oz in WP. I don't have any tools to facilitate a WP and usually just get it going with a stainless spoon at 180F. Should I not actually be stirring/aerating at the temp with those hops and just let the sit and get their contact time at that temp? I know the homebrew community has been back and forth on the legitimacy of HSA aeration at a homebrew level.
what “taste” issues are you experiencing? With actually moving the wort you can get better extraction In a shorter amount of time But I’d honestly believe you will get equivalent extract either way if your at 180*f for say 30 mins plus. I guess there is always the possibility to extract more polyphenols if constantly moving the wort

in a 30 minute hopstand I probably stir 3 or 4 times and that’s it. I only really do it to speed up cooling and to get the break material and hops to gravitate to the center.
 
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troglodytes

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Two beers in particular I really whipped up a whirlpool. Both had this taste I get with IPAs both homebrew and commercial. I guess I would call it a combo of cat piss and grass clippings after the main flavor of the hops fade as you swallow. I sometimes get a light instance of this flavor, but never as bad as the times I did the large WPs while stirring.

The beers both also faded, turned brown, and had more pronounced vegetal taste after about 3 weeks...although I chalked that up to possible aeration in the transfer process.
 

Dgallo

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Two beers in particular I really whipped up a whirlpool. Both had this taste I get with IPAs both homebrew and commercial. I guess I would call it a combo of cat piss and grass clippings after the main flavor of the hops fade as you swallow. I sometimes get a light instance of this flavor, but never as bad as the times I did the large WPs while stirring.

The beers both also faded, turned brown, and had more pronounced vegetal taste after about 3 weeks...although I chalked that up to possible aeration in the transfer process.
Cat piss can come from hops high in 4mmp. Citra has it sometimes. So that would be nothing you did wrong. Vegetable notes is typically due to the beer being young and just needing conditioning time or just not good hop quality.

now beers turning brown and losing their flavor, thats 100% oxidation and comes mainly from post fermentation oxygen exposure.
 

wepeeler

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Two beers in particular I really whipped up a whirlpool. Both had this taste I get with IPAs both homebrew and commercial. I guess I would call it a combo of cat piss and grass clippings after the main flavor of the hops fade as you swallow. I sometimes get a light instance of this flavor, but never as bad as the times I did the large WPs while stirring.

The beers both also faded, turned brown, and had more pronounced vegetal taste after about 3 weeks...although I chalked that up to possible aeration in the transfer process.
I'm no expert, but whirlpooling at 180 may be your culprit for the cat pee or extra bitterness. Only going on personal experience here, but the few times I whirlpooled at 180, I found the beer to be more harsh, although never grassy... I've since gone to 160 and then dropped in my hops. By the time 30 minutes is up, I'm usually around 140. Variables also include hop variety, as I got more bitterness/harshness out of Galaxy/Strata vs Citra/Mosaic this way too. But, those are harsher hops to begin with. I would suggest whirlpooling a bit lower. It has certainly helped my beer.
 
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