New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

Something interesting I found about bitterness when trying to make traditional IPA's is that for me it's really depended on the water profile and possibly the dry hop. I always try to go for 60-80 IBU's in those beers from the boil, then whirlpool and dry hop. As long as my CaCl has been 100-150, there is almost no bitterness.

It's honestly a little frustrating since I want these beers to be bitter, but I feel like as long as CaCl is greater than or matches the Sulfate levels, the perceived bitterness is just too smooth. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Latest WCIPA: 78 IBU's, Cl 95, SO4 221, pH 5.38. OG: 1.061, FG: 1.008. I really tried to dry this beer out and make it bitter but it's really not... I feel like the 7oz Simcoe Dry hop could have (bio?)transformed the alpha acids and humulone to add more flavor than bitterness.

There is quiet a lot of research floating around on how bitterness changes throughout the process. It's not as simple as calculating from the boil additions.
If I remember correctly you loose bitterness by dry hopping if a beer is on the higher side, I believe above 60IBU but dry hopping adds bitterness if you have only around 30IBU.
I have just looked up my notes. I've had 100cl / 150su beer with about 30ibu as 60min bittering addition. Then a light whirpool of 2oz and it came out much more bitter then anticipated.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I've been adding a few oz at 10 minutes for the last few months now and it really has taken my beers to the next level. Even the guys in my club have said the same about them. I'm dry hopping my All Together clone at the moment which had no boil additions so will be interesting to compare when I keg on Sunday or Monday.

I referenced this before but completely agree. Adding in a 10 minute addition has been a massive improvement for me. Even if 80-100% of isomerization is occurring, something else is happening or being added that has made a noticeable impact for me. Beers without the 10 minute addition are severely lacking something. I usually hit around 25-35 calculated ibus from the 10 minute addition.

 

[beervoid]

I referenced this before but completely agree. Adding in a 10 minute addition has been a massive improvement for me. Even if 80-100% of isomerization is occurring, something else is happening or being added that has made a noticeable impact for me. Beers without the 10 minute addition are severely lacking something. I usually hit around 25-35 calculated ibus from the 10 minute addition.

Have you played with different hops and noticed any difference? It seems to me at these higher temps you loose most of the volatile oils that make up distinct character of selected hops.. so basically any high oil content hop might work.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Have you played with different hops and noticed any difference? It seems to me at these higher temps you loose most of the volatile oils that make up distinct character of selected hops.. so basically any high oil content hop might work.

I have played with tons of different hops, almost always fairly high oil hops. Citra, mosaic, Galaxy, Idaho 7, strata, Amarillo, Nelson, pretty much all of the trendy NEIPA hops. Usually whatever I’ve been adding at 10 is also then featured in WP and or DH, although lately I’ve been switching it up.

Going to transfer my latest into the keg today which was:

1.5 oz mosaic, 1.5 oz I-7 at 10 minutes
1.5 oz mosaic, 1.5 oz I-7 at 160 WP
3 oz Citra, 3 oz Vic Secret DH

I usually go higher on the DH but went a little lower this time to see if there was much of a difference. Have usually been in the 8-12 range.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just got this in the mail so plenty of brews in the works.

 

[kevink]

Looks like at least one lost the vacuum seal. I have returned bags like that to Yakima. It used to happen to me all the time.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Looks like at least one lost the vacuum seal. I have returned bags like that to Yakima. It used to happen to me all the time.

Yeah, all the half pounders are good, one of the 2oz citras appears to have lost the seal. I’ll ride with it. No biggie

 

[kevink]

I pretty much stopped caring if they lost the seal. I definitely re-vacuum seal them, and if they smell good at that point, I just use them.

 

[secretlevel]

There is quiet a lot of research floating around on how bitterness changes throughout the process. It's not as simple as calculating from the boil additions.
If I remember correctly you loose bitterness by dry hopping if a beer is on the higher side, I believe above 60IBU but dry hopping adds bitterness if you have only around 30IBU.
I have just looked up my notes. I've had 100cl / 150su beer with about 30ibu as 60min bittering addition. Then a light whirpool of 2oz and it came out much more bitter then anticipated.

Very valid points and very interesting observations. Did you dry hop the beer that you mentioned? Most WCIPA recipes I see only have about 0.5oz/gallon dry hop if not less or any at all. This is drastically different than what we do here!

 

[pmaster]

Anyone tried something like Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy? I love Amarillo and wanted to give it a shot with this base recipe.

 

[Dgallo]

Anyone tried something like Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy? I love Amarillo and wanted to give it a shot with this base recipe.

Not the exact combo but Amarillo and mosaic are a match made in heaven man. They play great off each other. I do a 2:1 ratio of Amarillo to mosaic. Just depends how much galaxy you want in the beer? If you want it as the star even it with the Amarillo, if you want it just as support go 2:1:0.5 Amarillo, mosaic, galaxy.

 

[eugles]

I’ve been reading this thread on and off for a long time now. Flat out, every neipa I have ever made has been totally muted I’m hop aroma and that saturated taste. I’ve tweaked about a thousand different aspects of my process, but no dice. Recently I’ve been pointed to a few posts discussing how force carbonation could be screwing up my beers. Grasping at straws here so I’m going to try and spund the next brew.

A lot of people on this thread and others talk about how yeast in suspension pulls down hop oils, so it’s important to get yeast to settle before dry hopping. My question is...how does that work with spunding? At what temperature are you guys dry hopping if spunding? Do you not try to get yeast to settle out first as you need to finish fermentation? Feeling very conflicted by all the techniques and lack of “umpff” in my brews. Halp!

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve been reading this thread on and off for a long time now. Flat out, every neipa I have ever made has been totally muted I’m hop aroma and that saturated taste. I’ve tweaked about a thousand different aspects of my process, but no dice. Recently I’ve been pointed to a few posts discussing how force carbonation could be screwing up my beers. Grasping at straws here so I’m going to try and spund the next brew.

A lot of people on this thread and others talk about how yeast in suspension pulls down hop oils, so it’s important to get yeast to settle before dry hopping. My question is...how does that work with spunding? At what temperature are you guys dry hopping if spunding? Do you not try to get yeast to settle out first as you need to finish fermentation? Feeling very conflicted by all the techniques and lack of “umpff” in my brews. Halp!

If you drop the yeast traditional spunding will not work, you’d have to add addition wort or sugar to do that. If you plan to prime the keg then yes, there should still be enough yeast in suspension to carbonate the beer. You could always pitch some CBC-1 with the priming solution.

That’s being said, when flavors and aroma are muted even after conditioning time, the first culprit to me is always oxidation. I force carb 98% of my NEIPAS with aggregation, literally fully carbing beers and drinking them 7 mins after they come out of the fv. Never had an issue of my aromas or flavors being muted.

If you type out your full process it will be easier for people to help see what the issue could be.

 

[pmaster]

Not the exact combo but Amarillo and mosaic are a match made in heaven man. They play great off each other. I do a 2:1 ratio of Amarillo to mosaic. Just depends how much galaxy you want in the beer? If you want it as the star even it with the Amarillo, if you want it just as support go 2:1:0.5 Amarillo, mosaic, galaxy.

Thanks a lot for the tips, ill go with 2:1:0.5!

 

[eugles]

If you drop the yeast traditional spunding will not work, you’d have to add addition wort or sugar to do that. If you plan to prime the keg then yes, there should still be enough yeast in suspension to carbonate the beer. You could always pitch some CBC-1 with the priming solution.

That’s being said, when flavors and aroma are muted even after conditioning time, the first culprit to me is always oxidation. I force carb 98% of my NEIPAS with aggregation, literally fully carbing beers and drinking them 7 mins after they come out of the fv. Never had an issue of my aromas or flavors being muted.

If you type out your full process it will be easier for people to help see what the issue could be.

Totally makes sense, which is what I thought too. So i posted this on reddit and got a lot of replies also suggesting oxidation, which I also suspect, but at this point I have no idea where...which is why i was considering spunding. I would SUPER DUPER appreciate any advice here. I'd love to do a hoppy beer...any kind, west coast ipa, pale ale, neipa, whatever that I can just have a nice hop aroma. I have fermenting kegs, carboys, brewbucket, etc. Open to try any specific process in terms of dry hopping, carbonating, etc.

Post below...

I'm pretty frustrated as I write this. I've been brewing for about 2.5 years now (as much as having a toddler and a baby allows) and am totally lost. Why the hell do all my NEIPAs taste the same? I have tried every suggestion, every process tweak, and I still get a dull, un-aromatic, slightly bitter "meh" beer. My friends like them, they are drinkable for sure, but I'm totally unimpressed. Here's in no order a list of random crap I have tried to tweak in hopes of making something I'm proud of:

Fermenter: Started with carboy, moved onto Fermonster, moved onto Brewbucket, finally landed on kegs with floating dip tubes so I can serve from same vessel with minimal oxygen exposure. Also spunding valve to dry hop under pressure.

Hops: different vendors, opened hops, brand new hops, vacuum sealed hops

Grist: every vendor you can think of

Yeast: various strains. Building starters and pitching appropriate amounts. Oxygenating. Fermentation usually kicks off within 6 hours.

PH: dialed in. tried lactic and phosphoric acids:

Water: using RO and adding minerals back in. Using recommended water profiles for the style.

Hot side: Robobrew which i hate and a good old propane kettle. Short boils, extra long boils. Adding hops at flame out, adding hops at 160-190F. Chill wort down quickly with Jaded Hydra.

Dry hopping: mid fermention, tail end of fermentation, post fermention, keg hopping, dry hopping with CO2 blasting to reduce oxidation, loose dry hopping, dry hopping in mesh cylinders.

Serving: never bottled, kegging and force carbonating, burst carbonating, 2-week carbonating, always at good temperature with a picnic tap.

Fermentation: always temp controlled, always given plenty of time for D-rest

Mash temps: usually 150-155

Batch sizes: 3-5 gallons. Heard too much headspace good be problematic.

Oxidation mitigation: closed transfers, purged kegs, purged lines, and finally just serving from fermentation keg with floating dip tube that was dry hopped at tail end of fermentation.

Milling: coarse and pulverized

Ugh. Super frustrated. I see here on reddit and Instagram people posting their brews that they ferment in simple carboys and discuss how one they can pick out one hop from another. I have what I think a really good process and understanding of what I'm doing, but I cannot pick out ****. Just tastes and smells like beer with "some hop taste" and little to no aroma of just "hop smell." I've tried various recipes, but all seem to be the same.

Can anyone think of what I should try next? What experiment should I attempt? What's a sure-fire recipe that I can try? Is it just not possible to make something remotely comparable to a commercial example? I can absolutely pick out shitty NEIPAs from the amazing ones. I've been lucky enough to try some of the world's best after a month long road trip across New England with my family. Am I just borked? Help me friends, you are my only hope.

 

[stickyfinger]

do commercial NEIPAs all taste muted to you?

I’ve been reading this thread on and off for a long time now. Flat out, every neipa I have ever made has been totally muted I’m hop aroma and that saturated taste. I’ve tweaked about a thousand different aspects of my process, but no dice. Recently I’ve been pointed to a few posts discussing how force carbonation could be screwing up my beers. Grasping at straws here so I’m going to try and spund the next brew.

A lot of people on this thread and others talk about how yeast in suspension pulls down hop oils, so it’s important to get yeast to settle before dry hopping. My question is...how does that work with spunding? At what temperature are you guys dry hopping if spunding? Do you not try to get yeast to settle out first as you need to finish fermentation? Feeling very conflicted by all the techniques and lack of “umpff” in my brews. Halp!

 

[eugles]

do commercial NEIPAs all taste muted to you?

Not in the slightest. Can absolutely pick out various commercial examples and identify hops. All mine, regardless of hops, malt, yeast have the exact same flavor. This generic hoppy thing. I’m sure oxidation is probably the culprit, but now I am literally fermenting and serving from the same keg, and still taste is the same with almost no discernible aroma. Someone has suggested that it could be my co2 tank and co2 quality as that is the one thing I haven’t changed.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Not in the slightest. Can absolutely pick out various commercial examples and identify hops. All mine, regardless of hops, malt, yeast have the exact same flavor. This generic hoppy thing. I’m sure oxidation is probably the culprit, but now I am literally fermenting and serving from the same keg, and still taste is the same with almost no discernible aroma. Someone has suggested that it could be my co2 tank and co2 quality as that is the one thing I haven’t changed.

Have you done single-hop beers? E.g., a single-hop Citra should taste quite a bit different from a single-hop Mosaic.

 

[eugles]

Have you done single-hop beers? E.g., a single-hop Citra should taste quite a bit different from a single-hop Mosaic.

Not in a long time. But a did an neipa with galaxy and nelson that tastes identical to a citra mosaic one I did, which mind as well have been fuggles and sorachi what I really really would love if someone could volunteer a simple recipe, not even neipa, and their process that i follow to the dot. Something to help me see that it’s possible to get aroma on an brew using my system and tools. I literally am desperate at this point as I have tweaked every little knob I could find.

 

[Dgallo]

Not in a long time. But a did an neipa with galaxy and nelson that tastes identical to a citra mosaic one I did, which mind as well have been fuggles and sorachi what I really really would love if someone could volunteer a simple recipe, not even neipa, and their process that i follow to the dot. Something to help me see that it’s possible to get aroma on an brew using my system and tools. I literally am desperate at this point as I have tweaked every little knob I could find.

Here is my single hop pale ale recipe thread, makes a solid hazy pale
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/base-pale-ale-recipe-for-single-hop-beers.673718/

 

[eugles]

Here is my single hop pale ale recipe thread, makes a solid hazy pale
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/base-pale-ale-recipe-for-single-hop-beers.673718/

That’s awesome I will absolutely do this one. Since I’m not totally lost on how I’m oxidizing my beers, can you recommend how you would dry hop? Post terminal gravity or a few points before?

 

[stickyfinger]

make sure your air exposure is minimal and ditch any keg hops. Then see if you can tell apart the beers.

Not in a long time. But a did an neipa with galaxy and nelson that tastes identical to a citra mosaic one I did, which mind as well have been fuggles and sorachi what I really really would love if someone could volunteer a simple recipe, not even neipa, and their process that i follow to the dot. Something to help me see that it’s possible to get aroma on an brew using my system and tools. I literally am desperate at this point as I have tweaked every little knob I could find.

 

[Dgallo]

That’s

That’s awesome I will absolutely do this one. Since I’m not totally lost on how I’m oxidizing my beers, can you recommend how you would dry hop? Post terminal gravity or a few points before?

well let's find out if its o2 first. So IDK how you purge your kegs but you said your fermenting in one. Well if thats the case, you should fill your serving keg with sterilizer solution, absolutely to the brim. then when fermentation is starting in your fermenting keg, connect the gas posts of both kegs to each other and the Liquid post of the sanitizer keg to a long hose into a 7 gallon empty pale bucket. This way you can use the co2 created in fermentation to purge the keg completely of o2 and fill in with aroma filled co2. Then on day 3 or 4 of fermentation you should dry hop in the fermenting keg with all line still connected. After fermentation cold crash as usual in the fermenting keg. After, pressure transfer to your serving keg and force carb. Let the beer sit cold on pressure for at least 10 days and then tap it. If it still taste muted it is certainly not coldside oxidation. If it taste great then you know you were getting oxidized in your previous batches and now you have a new coldside process

 

[eugles]

well let's find out if its o2 first. So IDK how you purge your kegs but you said your fermenting in one. Well if thats the case, you should fill your serving keg with sterilizer solution, absolutely to the brim. then when fermentation is starting in your fermenting keg, connect the gas posts of both kegs to each other and the Liquid post of the sanitizer keg to a long hose into a 7 gallon empty pale bucket. This way you can use the co2 created in fermentation to purge the keg completely of o2 and fill in with aroma filled co2. Then on day 3 or 4 of fermentation you should dry hop in the fermenting keg with all line still connected. After fermentation cold crash as usual in the fermenting keg. After, pressure transfer to your serving keg and force carb. Let the beer sit cold on pressure for at least 10 days and then tap it. If it still taste muted it is certainly not coldside oxidation. If it taste great then you know you were getting oxidized in your previous batches and now you have a new coldside process

Thanks for all the great advice here dude! I’m just going to ask some questions that may be dumb, but I’ll do it anyways for sake of completeness.

- when adding dry hops, this is done at fermentation temps, around 68F?
- when adding dry hops, this is done pre terminal fg?
- in the system you described, when you cold crash, you disconnect the gas connector from the fermenting keg to the serving keg I assume?
- would it be worthwhile to just keep going with my single keg ferment and serve system. Less places for me to mess up and oxidize?

 

[beervoid]

Very valid points and very interesting observations. Did you dry hop the beer that you mentioned? Most WCIPA recipes I see only have about 0.5oz/gallon dry hop if not less or any at all. This is drastically different than what we do here!

I was not aiming for a westcoast. It had 6oz of dry hops.

 

[echoALEia]

@echoALEia
Are you sure the blowing away factor of the right comes from the yeast and not the hops? Strata hops are really impressive.

A couple minutes of weeks ago I would have said it’s possible because Strata hops are amazing but I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

If you drop the yeast traditional spunding will not work

If someone wants to spund they can do it in primary before dry hopping. I'll sometimes slap on a spunding valve after a couple days of fermentation and before I drop the yeast and dry hop.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Totally makes sense, which is what I thought too. So i posted this on reddit and got a lot of replies also suggesting oxidation, which I also suspect, but at this point I have no idea where...which is why i was considering spunding. I would SUPER DUPER appreciate any advice here. I'd love to do a hoppy beer...any kind, west coast ipa, pale ale, neipa, whatever that I can just have a nice hop aroma. I have fermenting kegs, carboys, brewbucket, etc. Open to try any specific process in terms of dry hopping, carbonating, etc.

Post below...

I'm pretty frustrated as I write this. I've been brewing for about 2.5 years now (as much as having a toddler and a baby allows) and am totally lost. Why the hell do all my NEIPAs taste the same? I have tried every suggestion, every process tweak, and I still get a dull, un-aromatic, slightly bitter "meh" beer. My friends like them, they are drinkable for sure, but I'm totally unimpressed. Here's in no order a list of random crap I have tried to tweak in hopes of making something I'm proud of:

Fermenter: Started with carboy, moved onto Fermonster, moved onto Brewbucket, finally landed on kegs with floating dip tubes so I can serve from same vessel with minimal oxygen exposure. Also spunding valve to dry hop under pressure.

Hops: different vendors, opened hops, brand new hops, vacuum sealed hops

Grist: every vendor you can think of

Yeast: various strains. Building starters and pitching appropriate amounts. Oxygenating. Fermentation usually kicks off within 6 hours.

PH: dialed in. tried lactic and phosphoric acids:

Water: using RO and adding minerals back in. Using recommended water profiles for the style.

Hot side: Robobrew which i hate and a good old propane kettle. Short boils, extra long boils. Adding hops at flame out, adding hops at 160-190F. Chill wort down quickly with Jaded Hydra.

Dry hopping: mid fermention, tail end of fermentation, post fermention, keg hopping, dry hopping with CO2 blasting to reduce oxidation, loose dry hopping, dry hopping in mesh cylinders.

Serving: never bottled, kegging and force carbonating, burst carbonating, 2-week carbonating, always at good temperature with a picnic tap.

Fermentation: always temp controlled, always given plenty of time for D-rest

Mash temps: usually 150-155

Batch sizes: 3-5 gallons. Heard too much headspace good be problematic.

Oxidation mitigation: closed transfers, purged kegs, purged lines, and finally just serving from fermentation keg with floating dip tube that was dry hopped at tail end of fermentation.

Milling: coarse and pulverized

Ugh. Super frustrated. I see here on reddit and Instagram people posting their brews that they ferment in simple carboys and discuss how one they can pick out one hop from another. I have what I think a really good process and understanding of what I'm doing, but I cannot pick out ****. Just tastes and smells like beer with "some hop taste" and little to no aroma of just "hop smell." I've tried various recipes, but all seem to be the same.

Can anyone think of what I should try next? What experiment should I attempt? What's a sure-fire recipe that I can try? Is it just not possible to make something remotely comparable to a commercial example? I can absolutely pick out shitty NEIPAs from the amazing ones. I've been lucky enough to try some of the world's best after a month long road trip across New England with my family. Am I just borked? Help me friends, you are my only hope.

Your process looks pretty buttoned up but I'd still say your issue is oxidation somewhere, if you've tried all those different things and still not getting the hop flavor. I may of missed it but what are you fermenting in? I stopped opening my fermenter(kegs) after fermentation is complete to minimize O2. I used to blow CO2 in while dry hopping which I'm sure helps some but there really is no way to limit O2 as much as you need to if you open the fermenter, unless you waste tons of CO2 purging afterwards. What I do now is load a dry hop keg at the beginning hooked up with jumpers to purge it during fermentation, and then when I want to dry hop I transfer over. I just tapped a new hazy yesterday with Azacca, Simcoe, Mosaic with super aroma and hop saturated flavor.

 

[Dgallo]

If someone wants to spund they can do it in primary before dry hopping. I'll sometimes slap on a spunding valve after a couple days of fermentation and before I drop the yeast and dry hop

Didn’t realize people we carbonating their beer before dryhoping. Do you feel you get the same level of extraction that way?

 

[beervoid]

Totally makes sense, which is what I thought too. So i posted this on reddit and got a lot of replies also suggesting oxidation, which I also suspect, but at this point I have no idea where...which is why i was considering spunding. I would SUPER DUPER appreciate any advice here. I'd love to do a hoppy beer...any kind, west coast ipa, pale ale, neipa, whatever that I can just have a nice hop aroma. I have fermenting kegs, carboys, brewbucket, etc. Open to try any specific process in terms of dry hopping, carbonating, etc.

Post below...

I'm pretty frustrated as I write this. I've been brewing for about 2.5 years now (as much as having a toddler and a baby allows) and am totally lost. Why the hell do all my NEIPAs taste the same? I have tried every suggestion, every process tweak, and I still get a dull, un-aromatic, slightly bitter "meh" beer. My friends like them, they are drinkable for sure, but I'm totally unimpressed. Here's in no order a list of random crap I have tried to tweak in hopes of making something I'm proud of:

Fermenter: Started with carboy, moved onto Fermonster, moved onto Brewbucket, finally landed on kegs with floating dip tubes so I can serve from same vessel with minimal oxygen exposure. Also spunding valve to dry hop under pressure.

Hops: different vendors, opened hops, brand new hops, vacuum sealed hops

Grist: every vendor you can think of

Yeast: various strains. Building starters and pitching appropriate amounts. Oxygenating. Fermentation usually kicks off within 6 hours.

PH: dialed in. tried lactic and phosphoric acids:

Water: using RO and adding minerals back in. Using recommended water profiles for the style.

Hot side: Robobrew which i hate and a good old propane kettle. Short boils, extra long boils. Adding hops at flame out, adding hops at 160-190F. Chill wort down quickly with Jaded Hydra.

Dry hopping: mid fermention, tail end of fermentation, post fermention, keg hopping, dry hopping with CO2 blasting to reduce oxidation, loose dry hopping, dry hopping in mesh cylinders.

Serving: never bottled, kegging and force carbonating, burst carbonating, 2-week carbonating, always at good temperature with a picnic tap.

Fermentation: always temp controlled, always given plenty of time for D-rest

Mash temps: usually 150-155

Batch sizes: 3-5 gallons. Heard too much headspace good be problematic.

Oxidation mitigation: closed transfers, purged kegs, purged lines, and finally just serving from fermentation keg with floating dip tube that was dry hopped at tail end of fermentation.

Milling: coarse and pulverized

Ugh. Super frustrated. I see here on reddit and Instagram people posting their brews that they ferment in simple carboys and discuss how one they can pick out one hop from another. I have what I think a really good process and understanding of what I'm doing, but I cannot pick out ****. Just tastes and smells like beer with "some hop taste" and little to no aroma of just "hop smell." I've tried various recipes, but all seem to be the same.

Can anyone think of what I should try next? What experiment should I attempt? What's a sure-fire recipe that I can try? Is it just not possible to make something remotely comparable to a commercial example? I can absolutely pick out shitty NEIPAs from the amazing ones. I've been lucky enough to try some of the world's best after a month long road trip across New England with my family. Am I just borked? Help me friends, you are my only hope.

How do you control how much you oxygenate the beer? Without having a flowmeter its pretty much impossible to know for sure how much oxygen you put in. Have you tried without oxygenating?
Other then did you check your keg is leaky. Are you sure then when you crash there is pressure on it and that the lid stays closed at all times?
Check all hoses for leaks. If there is one small leak anywhere and u transfer you will introduce DO.
Is the beer not good at any point during sampling?
Perhaps you suffer from hop fatigue.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Didn’t realize people we carbonating their beer before dryhoping. Do you feel you get the same level of extraction that way?

Yes, I just tapped one that was one of the most flavorful/aromatic ones I've done. Don't some professional brewers do it, hence the videos out there of geysers exploding out of their tanks when they don't close it fast enough.

I'm not dealing with full levels of carbonation when I dry hop, but I think the spunding gets it partly there. This last one I tapped at 6 days on gas because my wife wanted to drink it and it was well carbed, normally takes longer to get there without spunding

 

[Dgallo]

Yes, I just tapped one that was one of the most flavorful/aromatic ones I've done. Don't some professional brewers do it, hence the videos out there of geysers exploding out of their tanks when they don't close it fast enough.

I'm not dealing with full levels of carbonation when I dry hop, but I think the spunding gets it partly there. This last one I tapped at 6 days on gas because my wife wanted to drink it and it was well carbed, normally takes longer to get there without spunding

In the video I saw they were pushing co2 in limit o2 pick up at dryhoping, i don’t recall if the beer it’s self was carbed at that point. Then I know they dryhop under a low pressure to keep surface tension

 

[secretlevel]

Thanks for all the great advice here dude! I’m just going to ask some questions that may be dumb, but I’ll do it anyways for sake of completeness.

- when adding dry hops, this is done at fermentation temps, around 68F?
- when adding dry hops, this is done pre terminal fg?
- in the system you described, when you cold crash, you disconnect the gas connector from the fermenting keg to the serving keg I assume?
- would it be worthwhile to just keep going with my single keg ferment and serve system. Less places for me to mess up and oxidize?

I struggled with the same issue, my friend. What made the difference for me is changing my dry hopping rates and dry hopping after fermentation is fully complete.
- finish fermenting
- chill to 55-58F for a day
- dry hop at around 2oz/gal for 48 hours
- then transfer to keg

 

[eugles]

I struggled with the same issue, my friend. What made the difference for me is changing my dry hopping rates and dry hopping after fermentation is fully complete.
- chill to 55-58F for a day
- dry hop at around 2oz/gal for 48 hours
- then transfer to keg

Good to know someone has been able to fix this issue! I absolutely understand and have read from pro brewers how yeast settling takes all hop aroma with it. In interviews with some of the best breweries in Scott Janish’s book, most dry hop after fermentation is done. I’m confused on how to do this while preventing oxidation at a homebrew level with homebrew equipment. Are you just cracking open your fermenter?
I feel like I tried all sorts of setups and nothing seems to do it for me. Some folks say spund the beer with hops in at ferm temperature a few degrees before terminal. Other say soft crash to get yeast to settle, then dry hop after terminal. I know there’s about a million ways of doing something like this, but I’ve had no success with doing many of them. I think I’m going to take a step back from neipa sadly and try the single hop pale ale recipe posted above. My goal is to just get an aroma heavy beer. The original recipe and process provided by brau has dry hopping happening during fermentation or at the tail end. Is that not a problem with yeast pulling those aromatics off? I feel like a schizophrenic sometimes trying to reconcile all the “best practices” around this style

 

[eugles]

How do you control how much you oxygenate the beer? Without having a flowmeter its pretty much impossible to know for sure how much oxygen you put in. Have you tried without oxygenating?
Other then did you check your keg is leaky. Are you sure then when you crash there is pressure on it and that the lid stays closed at all times?
Check all hoses for leaks. If there is one small leak anywhere and u transfer you will introduce DO.
Is the beer not good at any point during sampling?
Perhaps you suffer from hop fatigue.

I only got an oxygenation tank and wand a few months ago so i have tried with and without. Have 3 diff kegs that i experimented with and rebuilt their posts/poppets etc. As you mentioned about checking hoses, my last two batches have been in a combo fermenting and serving keg to avoid additional sources. Still no dice.
So you asked a question that I find myself asking a lot. With regards to samples, do you folks take a fermenter sample and say “omg this is amazing” I have never had that with a fermenter sample ever. They’ve been fine, but not mind blowing. Is this a problem of mine?

 

[skleice]

A couple minutes of weeks ago I would have said it’s possible because Strata hops are amazing but I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

Really? What kind of attenuation are you getting? I have a sachet in the fridge, but have been scared to use it.

 

[anteater8]

Anyone tried something like Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy? I love Amarillo and wanted to give it a shot with this base recipe.

I did Amarillo/Mosaic/Vic Secret recently, which I'm guessing would be somewhat similar. I definitely enjoyed it, but for me, it had a little too much going on in terms of flavor and aroma - everything from pine, tropical fruit, citrus, berry, melon... I would have preferred to highlight just 2 or 3 of those.

 

[SanPancho]

If someone wants to spund they can do it in primary before dry hopping. I'll sometimes slap on a spunding valve after a couple days of fermentation and before I drop the yeast and dry hop.

This seems like you’d lose a lot of aroma from the off gassing produced by the dry hop addition. You close it up and repressurize it fast? How do you avoid the off gas?

 

[SanPancho]

Got an email from Farmhouse about a new hop. Anyone use it yet?
View attachment 680280

Ive got it in my cart, along with some “Julius” hops never heard of before. Going for orange bomb obviously. Haven’t found any reviews in real life.

also check the german amarillo. They claiming the crop was picked at different points and gave three different flavor profiles. i can understand how it’s possible, but not sure I believe the Difference is that prominent or noticeable. interesting nonetheless

 

[secretlevel]

I only got an oxygenation tank and wand a few months ago so i have tried with and without. Have 3 diff kegs that i experimented with and rebuilt their posts/poppets etc. As you mentioned about checking hoses, my last two batches have been in a combo fermenting and serving keg to avoid additional sources. Still no dice.
So you asked a question that I find myself asking a lot. With regards to samples, do you folks take a fermenter sample and say “omg this is amazing” I have never had that with a fermenter sample ever. They’ve been fine, but not mind blowing. Is this a problem of mine?

I get decent flavors out of the fermenter, but they don't really hit their peak until 2-3 weeks after the dry hop.

Go ahead and follow Dgallo's recipe or the one from Braufessor (see pg.1). Then wait for the fermentantion to finish, soft crash to 55-58 for a day and drop in 2oz/gallon of banger hops like Galaxy, Citra, or Mosaic. I'll be truly amazed if you don't get killer flavors in this. If this doesn't work, you might just have an infection.

What yeast do you use?

Gents if I'm not wrong, oxidation would usually mean that the beer turns relatively brown and tastes like cardboard. Is this the case?