New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[VirginiaHops1]

Didn’t realize people we carbonating their beer before dryhoping. Do you feel you get the same level of extraction that way?

Yes, I just tapped one that was one of the most flavorful/aromatic ones I've done. Don't some professional brewers do it, hence the videos out there of geysers exploding out of their tanks when they don't close it fast enough.

I'm not dealing with full levels of carbonation when I dry hop, but I think the spunding gets it partly there. This last one I tapped at 6 days on gas because my wife wanted to drink it and it was well carbed, normally takes longer to get there without spunding

 

[Dgallo]

Yes, I just tapped one that was one of the most flavorful/aromatic ones I've done. Don't some professional brewers do it, hence the videos out there of geysers exploding out of their tanks when they don't close it fast enough.

I'm not dealing with full levels of carbonation when I dry hop, but I think the spunding gets it partly there. This last one I tapped at 6 days on gas because my wife wanted to drink it and it was well carbed, normally takes longer to get there without spunding

In the video I saw they were pushing co2 in limit o2 pick up at dryhoping, i don’t recall if the beer it’s self was carbed at that point. Then I know they dryhop under a low pressure to keep surface tension

 

[secretlevel]

Thanks for all the great advice here dude! I’m just going to ask some questions that may be dumb, but I’ll do it anyways for sake of completeness.

- when adding dry hops, this is done at fermentation temps, around 68F?
- when adding dry hops, this is done pre terminal fg?
- in the system you described, when you cold crash, you disconnect the gas connector from the fermenting keg to the serving keg I assume?
- would it be worthwhile to just keep going with my single keg ferment and serve system. Less places for me to mess up and oxidize?

I struggled with the same issue, my friend. What made the difference for me is changing my dry hopping rates and dry hopping after fermentation is fully complete.
- finish fermenting
- chill to 55-58F for a day
- dry hop at around 2oz/gal for 48 hours
- then transfer to keg

 

[eugles]

I struggled with the same issue, my friend. What made the difference for me is changing my dry hopping rates and dry hopping after fermentation is fully complete.
- chill to 55-58F for a day
- dry hop at around 2oz/gal for 48 hours
- then transfer to keg

Good to know someone has been able to fix this issue! I absolutely understand and have read from pro brewers how yeast settling takes all hop aroma with it. In interviews with some of the best breweries in Scott Janish’s book, most dry hop after fermentation is done. I’m confused on how to do this while preventing oxidation at a homebrew level with homebrew equipment. Are you just cracking open your fermenter?
I feel like I tried all sorts of setups and nothing seems to do it for me. Some folks say spund the beer with hops in at ferm temperature a few degrees before terminal. Other say soft crash to get yeast to settle, then dry hop after terminal. I know there’s about a million ways of doing something like this, but I’ve had no success with doing many of them. I think I’m going to take a step back from neipa sadly and try the single hop pale ale recipe posted above. My goal is to just get an aroma heavy beer. The original recipe and process provided by brau has dry hopping happening during fermentation or at the tail end. Is that not a problem with yeast pulling those aromatics off? I feel like a schizophrenic sometimes trying to reconcile all the “best practices” around this style

 

[eugles]

How do you control how much you oxygenate the beer? Without having a flowmeter its pretty much impossible to know for sure how much oxygen you put in. Have you tried without oxygenating?
Other then did you check your keg is leaky. Are you sure then when you crash there is pressure on it and that the lid stays closed at all times?
Check all hoses for leaks. If there is one small leak anywhere and u transfer you will introduce DO.
Is the beer not good at any point during sampling?
Perhaps you suffer from hop fatigue.

I only got an oxygenation tank and wand a few months ago so i have tried with and without. Have 3 diff kegs that i experimented with and rebuilt their posts/poppets etc. As you mentioned about checking hoses, my last two batches have been in a combo fermenting and serving keg to avoid additional sources. Still no dice.
So you asked a question that I find myself asking a lot. With regards to samples, do you folks take a fermenter sample and say “omg this is amazing” I have never had that with a fermenter sample ever. They’ve been fine, but not mind blowing. Is this a problem of mine?

 

[skleice]

A couple minutes of weeks ago I would have said it’s possible because Strata hops are amazing but I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

Really? What kind of attenuation are you getting? I have a sachet in the fridge, but have been scared to use it.

 

[anteater8]

Anyone tried something like Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy? I love Amarillo and wanted to give it a shot with this base recipe.

I did Amarillo/Mosaic/Vic Secret recently, which I'm guessing would be somewhat similar. I definitely enjoyed it, but for me, it had a little too much going on in terms of flavor and aroma - everything from pine, tropical fruit, citrus, berry, melon... I would have preferred to highlight just 2 or 3 of those.

 

[SanPancho]

If someone wants to spund they can do it in primary before dry hopping. I'll sometimes slap on a spunding valve after a couple days of fermentation and before I drop the yeast and dry hop.

This seems like you’d lose a lot of aroma from the off gassing produced by the dry hop addition. You close it up and repressurize it fast? How do you avoid the off gas?

 

[SanPancho]

Got an email from Farmhouse about a new hop. Anyone use it yet?
View attachment 680280

Ive got it in my cart, along with some “Julius” hops never heard of before. Going for orange bomb obviously. Haven’t found any reviews in real life.

also check the german amarillo. They claiming the crop was picked at different points and gave three different flavor profiles. i can understand how it’s possible, but not sure I believe the Difference is that prominent or noticeable. interesting nonetheless

 

[secretlevel]

I only got an oxygenation tank and wand a few months ago so i have tried with and without. Have 3 diff kegs that i experimented with and rebuilt their posts/poppets etc. As you mentioned about checking hoses, my last two batches have been in a combo fermenting and serving keg to avoid additional sources. Still no dice.
So you asked a question that I find myself asking a lot. With regards to samples, do you folks take a fermenter sample and say “omg this is amazing” I have never had that with a fermenter sample ever. They’ve been fine, but not mind blowing. Is this a problem of mine?

I get decent flavors out of the fermenter, but they don't really hit their peak until 2-3 weeks after the dry hop.

Go ahead and follow Dgallo's recipe or the one from Braufessor (see pg.1). Then wait for the fermentantion to finish, soft crash to 55-58 for a day and drop in 2oz/gallon of banger hops like Galaxy, Citra, or Mosaic. I'll be truly amazed if you don't get killer flavors in this. If this doesn't work, you might just have an infection.

What yeast do you use?

Gents if I'm not wrong, oxidation would usually mean that the beer turns relatively brown and tastes like cardboard. Is this the case?

 

[eugles]

I get decent flavors out of the fermenter, but they don't really hit their peak until 2-3 weeks after the dry hop.

Go ahead and follow Dgallo's recipe or the one from Braufessor (see pg.1). Then wait for the fermentantion to finish, soft crash to 55-58 for a day and drop in 2oz/gallon of banger hops like Galaxy, Citra, or Mosaic. I'll be truly amazed if you don't get killer flavors in this. If this doesn't work, you might just have an infection.

What yeast do you use?

Gents if I'm not wrong, oxidation would usually mean that the beer turns relatively brown and tastes like cardboard. Is this the case?

Will do! I've used a boat ton of different yeasts, and sadly they are all much the same to my beers...as are the hops. I'm positive I don't have an infection at this point as I've made some other non hoppy beers that have turned out fantastic.

I'm pretty positive it is oxidation, I'm just a total loss of where it is. Going to continue asking the mundane questions if you don't mind. How do you deal with oxidation while dry hopping post terminal? Just soft crash for a day to get it to 55, open fermenter and throw hops in? Any special precautions?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

This seems like you’d lose a lot of aroma from the off gassing produced by the dry hop addition. You close it up and repressurize it fast? How do you avoid the off gas?

I have a dry hop keg already loaded with hops and purged during fermentation, so I just closed transfer over when ready to dry hop. I started doing that awhile back and it's seemed to work really well so I've kept doing it.

In the video I saw they were pushing co2 in limit o2 pick up at dryhoping, i don’t recall if the beer it’s self was carbed at that point. Then I know they dryhop under a low pressure to keep surface tension

I'm not sure how just blowing CO2 into a tank would cause beer to geyser out the top, any more than beer blows out the top of a corny when you're pushing in CO2. The video I saw definitely seemed like it was caused by nucleation points from the dry hop charge. I've heard if you throw hops on carbonated beer you'll get a ton of nucleation points, although I've never done it with my keg open.

 

[SanPancho]

I have a dry hop keg already loaded with hops and purged during fermentation, so I just closed transfer over when ready to dry hop. I started doing that awhile back and it's seemed to work really well so I've kept doing it.

I'm not sure how just blowing CO2 into a tank would cause beer to geyser out the top, any more than beer blows out the top of a corny when you're pushing in CO2. The video I saw definitely seemed like it was caused by nucleation points from the dry hop charge. I've heard if you throw hops on carbonated beer you'll get a ton of nucleation points, although I've never done it with my keg open.

that was what i was getting at. even half carbed beer, i.e. spunded for only last 2-3 points, has enough co2 breakout when you dump in hops that you can get volcanoes of foam. which is why i didnt understand how that could work for you. but if the hops are already there in the serving keg then i guess that makes sense. although to be honest, i'd still imagine you're gonna get a ton of foam in the receiving keg as it fills, you just wouldnt see it or notice it since its sealed keg.

in any case, what gallo was referring to is that the gas blown into tank is to create positive pressure so that when you open the dry hop port and dump the hops in that the ambient air cannot (in theory) get in as there is a flow of co2 out the port.

 

[stickyfinger]

If u use a keg to ferment just pop the lid with dry hop charge in a large mouth plastic countainer in the other hand. Dump in the dry hops VERY fast to the large opening and then with the other hand QUICKLY put on the keg lid. It can work fine but you have to be FAST if the beer is carbonated

 

[VirginiaHops1]

that was what i was getting at. even half carbed beer, i.e. spunded for only last 2-3 points, has enough co2 breakout when you dump in hops that you can get volcanoes of foam. which is why i didnt understand how that could work for you. but if the hops are already there in the serving keg then i guess that makes sense. although to be honest, i'd still imagine you're gonna get a ton of foam in the receiving keg as it fills, you just wouldnt see it or notice it since its sealed keg.

in any case, what gallo was referring to is that the gas blown into tank is to create positive pressure so that when you open the dry hop port and dump the hops in that the ambient air cannot (in theory) get in as there is a flow of co2 out the port.

I may have some foam in my dry hop keg but it doesn't really matter since it's all sealed. It's not my serving keg FWIW, after my dry hop is done I closed transfer one last time to the serving keg. I don't like leaving hops on my beer too long.

I agree with the positive pressure theory, it's just that not that many homebrew fermenters can do it. I did that for awhile on my fermenter kegs but the problem is they open inward, so I really have to crack the seal before I start pushing significant CO2 pressure. SS conicals like the pros use, yeah they probably do a better job because they open outwards. To eliminate the issue on my system I just stopped opening the fermenter after fermentation was complete.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

So out of the tree yeast strains in your original blend you nailed it down to s33 causing the fantastic aroma and taste.
Does a beer fermented with s33 stay hazy like one with 1318?

 

[Frieds]

I used Malted Oats for the first time today and my goodness they are a dream to work with compared to Rolled Oats.

 

[HopsAreGood]

So out of the tree yeast strains in your original blend you nailed it down to s33 causing the fantastic aroma and taste.
Does a beer fermented with s33 stay hazy like one with 1318?

I’ve been curious about playing with s-33 as well. According to the fermentis descriptions it seems it would be perfect but no one ever brings it up when choosing yeast for these beers.

“S-33 has the juiciest character and allows the release of intense hop tropical notes;”

https://fermentis.com/en/yeast-to-brew-a-neipa/

 

[SanPancho]

A couple minutes of weeks ago I would have said it’s possible because Strata hops are amazing but I’ve been consistently using s33 and underpitching it a little and I love it. Way better than 1318 personally.

did you do the split fermentation a while back with s33 and few others? Id asked you about the esters from s33 but don’t recall your answer.

cant find those posts, should’ve bookmarkEd it.

 

[pmaster]

I did Amarillo/Mosaic/Vic Secret recently, which I'm guessing would be somewhat similar. I definitely enjoyed it, but for me, it had a little too much going on in terms of flavor and aroma - everything from pine, tropical fruit, citrus, berry, melon... I would have preferred to highlight just 2 or 3 of those.

Im in the process of brewing right now! I guess I'll give it a go anyway and see how i like it. Do you remember what ratios you used last time?

 

[kevink]

@eugles, where do you get your hops, how do you store them, and how old are they when you use them? I recently tracked down a weird problem I had where certain batches would suck for no apparent reason. All of these sucky batches used hops that were more than about a year old. I thought they should be fine since they were vacuum sealed and frozen, buy apparently age really matters even if kept under ideal conditions.

 

[TyYoda]

Imo, a major source of cold side oxidation is the cold crash. As the beer gets cold, the beer volume shrinks and O2 is sucked into the fermenter. I use a mylar balloon (credit to Marchall Schott - 7 methods for reducing cold-side oxidation when brewing) inflated with co2 connected to the fermenter. This way, CO2 is sucked into the fermenter as the beer volume shrinks during the cold crash. Anyway, I follow Schott's 7 methods and I've never had any oxidation issues with my NEIPAs ever.

 

[eugles]

@eugles, where do you get your hops, how do you store them, and how old are they when you use them? I recently tracked down a weird problem I had where certain batches would suck for no apparent reason. All of these sucky batches used hops that were more than about a year old. I thought they should be fine since they were vacuum sealed and frozen, buy apparently age really matters even if kept under ideal conditions.

Totally thought the same thing. I store mine in vacuum sealed bags and have had the same issue with brand new tags straight from Yakima valley hops

 

[eugles]

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

 

[stickyfinger]

just put a cold crash guardian from brew hardware or a mylar balloom filled with CO2 on before cold crash. No problem. I have been cold crashing and then warming back up to 70F for dry hop. I will never go back to biotransformation hopping or dry hopping at soft crash temps. This is an ideal procedure. Amazing long lasting juicy hop flavor. But it takes much longer and requires some care.

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

 

[anteater8]

Im in the process of brewing right now! I guess I'll give it a go anyway and see how i like it. Do you remember what ratios you used last time?

Yep, here you go! Don't get me wrong, it was definitely good. I've tried around 20 different hop combos and this was right in the middle of the road for me.

0.7 oz Warrior 60 min
4 oz Mosaic whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
4 oz Mosaic dry hop
2 oz Amarillo dry hop
2 oz Vic Secret dry hop

 

[crusader1612]

A couple of questions that I have had for a long time, but finally took the time to write down. Would love some help with these.

• A majority of pro brewers do not cool their wort after the boil and before adding hops flameout hops. I know this is an area of interest for some breweries, but not everyone is equipped to do this. The hops sit around for a long time at high heat due to the thermal mass of the wort and the time it takes to cool the wort. I’ve heard from some pros it takes an hour or more. Why is it that the neipa community has adopted whirlpooling at say 160F or so and then letting the temperature decay over 20-30 mins. If we are trying to replicate the beers from pro breweries, shouldn’t we be whirlpooling right at flameout and maintaining temp? Lower temps do not isomerize all those awesome hop oils which makes sense, but like I mentioned, aren’t the pros isomerizing them?
• A lot of recipes seem to suggest killing the flame, throwing in some hops, and begin chilling right away. What’s the advantage of doing that if you are at isomerization temps for like a minute before you are cooling already and down a significant amount of temperature?
• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

It's definitely an interesting discussion.

but in the interest of homebrwing, i suspect we do what we believe works bestfor our own systems, but it would be an interesting experiment for someone to try out.

In other news, i got hold of some Dry voxx kveik from lallemand, so did the below.
1.065
4.3kg pilsner
1kg pale male
1kg flaked oats
1kg wheat
200g acidulated for ph

chucked in the following at whirlpool
2 oz amarillo
2 oz azacca
1.25 oz riwaka
1 oz centennial
gave it 30 minutes and then rack into my bucket.

pitched a day 1 dryhop of 1oz centennial
with another 2.5oz at 48 hours in.

2 packs of voss kveik - unhydrated (i've been told to try it without rehydration on kveik dry strains).

then on day 5/6 the final dryhop of 3.5oz mandarina bavaria & 1.5oz loral.

will be interesting to see the difference between kveik and other strains for me, having not used it before, i tried the NEIPA lallemand strain recenly, and wasn't impressed, but keen to try london esb as a dry strain into a hazy. Has anyone tried it?

 

[stickyfinger]

I’m wondering if the current S33 train is mostly powered by fermentis rebranding a strain as NEIPA worthy lol. I doubt it competes with Juice or Dry Hop but I’m game to try it.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’m wondering if the current S33 train is mostly powered by fermentis rebranding a strain as NEIPA worthy lol. I doubt it competes with Juice or Dry Hop but I’m game to try it.

Definitely possible. It could just be marketing but I’m intrigued especially after the previous poster said he was loving it.

 

[secretlevel]

Imo, a major source of cold side oxidation is the cold crash. As the beer gets cold, the beer volume shrinks and O2 is sucked into the fermenter. I use a mylar balloon (credit to Marchall Schott - 7 methods for reducing cold-side oxidation when brewing) inflated with co2 connected to the fermenter. This way, CO2 is sucked into the fermenter as the beer volume shrinks during the cold crash. Anyway, I follow Schott's 7 methods and I've never had any oxidation issues with my NEIPAs ever.

I'm not suffering from any oxidation issues but I thought about doing this. However only a minor fraction of the starsan gets sucked in from the airlock. By the end of the cold crash I still have almost as much airlock sanitizer as I initially had. Am I missing something here?

• Dry hopping. Some pro brewers I hear on podcasts and such talk about the importance of crashing out yeast before dry hopping. It’s known that yeast pulls hop oils with it so the more yeast you can get out the better. For us homebrewers that don’t have cool conincals, this is an it hard to do without oxidation. However, at the same time, another contingent of brewers discuss the importance of dry hopping at fermentation temps, at the very tail end of fermentation to allow yeast to scrub any introduced oxygen. Is it just a meter of preference?

What you can do is use a small dorm fridge for fermentations. When the fermentation is done, use an Inkbird to drop the temp before dry hopping.
For pro brewers - who could say, I'm pretty sure they can purge the oxygen at any point in time with CO2 so I'm not sure if O2 is of much concern to them. The breweries that still do add dry hops during active fermentation probably try to take some advantage of biotransformation.

Having listened to a ton of CB&B podcasts as well, I feel like the majority of them drop the yeast out before dry hopping. At least the newer podcasts...